Is this a hole?

[defiant79]

I recently got a 1999 Ford Windstar from a local used car lot. Test drove it for over 3 hours and other than an engine light being on it ran great. Checked computer codes and found the usual lean fuel mix (the TSB for the valve cover has not been performed on this van). I went ahead and bought the van, it has a 145,000 miles on it. The only thing I've done is replace a lower ball joint on the front. I'm debating taking it in for a tune up and trying to locate the source of the check engine light (I will probably buy the kit and do it myself when it warms up, but till then...).

I was checking vacuum hoses today and came across what looks like a hole. This is between the engine block and the intake. You can see part of the head gasket.



This is the area where it is, its on the passenger side behind the alternator.



Any ideas? This is my first windstar and I have never seen anything like this on any other motor before. Thanks for anything.

[wiswind]

I am sorry that I cannot help as far as the pictures go......mine is a '96.....and 1999 was a "major change" year.
The tuneup is a great idea.

You may already know.....or even own your own code reader, but if you don't have a code reader, most auto part stores will read your generic OBDII codes for free.
ALWAYS ask for the actual numeric codes.

[MARZBX157]

I looked at my 2000 with the 3.8L engine at the location from your pictures. I can see the IMRC rod going across and it looks like the base of your lower intake manifold is chipped or broken off. I dont know how that would happen but that what it looks like to me. You can even see a piece of the gasket where it mates to the block.
Here is a picture of the lower intake manifold:

[MARZBX157]

OK, I took a more in-depth look at my engine and found the same hole which yours have, the only difference is yours has a lot of gunk around that area. That hole is normal and not a cracked piece from the lower intake, I even have that extra piece of gasket sticking out like in your pictures. I would be more concerned about the gunk, could be coming from the water by-pass tube which sits under the upper intake manifold. This tube is known to develop pin hole leaks and is very hard to tell because you cant see it without removing the upper intake manifold. Another possibility is oil leaking from somewhere, did you do the isolator bolt fix? If not then this could be the cause of the problem. Bottom line, i would remove the upper intake manifold to get a better look at the water by-pass tube and the lower intake manifold and try to find the source of all the gunk. Here is a good site which shows you how to remove these parts, let me know how it goes. Good luck.
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

[defiant79]

Thanks for the replies, when I first saw that I was like what in the hell did I just get myself into. It does look like a piece is chipped, but when you look at it, the intake looked like it was forged that way so I wasn't sure.

As for the gunk, no I have not done the isolator bolt stuff yet. I'm planning on ordering the kit and doing it myself as soon as I can. Right now I'm waiting to see if the dealer will go 50/50 on this as he promised if I had any issues.....

Thanks again for taking the time to check yours out. That is one less thing to worry about.

[MARZBX157]

Let me know the end result of the issue so that I may learn a thing or two more about these vans.

[defiant79]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but with the on going problems I've had with this van I took it to another garage to get it looked at (Ford dealer just tried to sell me a motor without doing anything).

They are telling me it looks like the lower intake is actually on backwards! Is this even possible? That would explain the hole (if it really is).

Any more thoughts on this?

[tomj76]

>They are telling me it looks like the lower intake is actually on backwards!

While anything is possible, I'd highly doubt it. I don't think there's enough symmetry in the manifold layout to "get away" with that mistake. However, you can check it out for yourself by removing the upper intake manifold and taking a look. You can clean out your EGR ports while you're at it.

FWIW, I once was replacing a head on an Escort. The head gasket was put on either flipped or rotated. While everything assembled OK, the cooling ports didn't line up right and it wouldn't hold coolant. The mistake made itself known that easily. It would have been nicer if a head bolt had been located to prevent the mistake.

[12Ounce]

IIRC, the lower intake manifold includes the runner-butterfly valves ... with the corresponding coupling to the actuator at the front of the engine.

Would be quite an engineering task to put the intake on backwards and make all that stuff work out.

[12Ounce]

Well, after looking at your photo again ... I got curious and had a look at my '99. Same thing on my engine. That "hole" doesn't go into the engine ... it only goes to a void on the side of the head casting where some metal was omitted ... for cost savings (I suppose).

Please don't do much business with that "dealer"! The upper intake manifold job is pretty easy for the DIY'r ... I would suggest you tackle it. We're here to help.

[defiant79]

This is good to know. I guess if I want this thing fixed, I'm going to have to do it myself (everyone else in town is apparently either out to rip me off or just plain don't know what they are talking about it).

Thanks for looking to looking at your engine to clarify it a bit. I think this weekend I will pul the upper intake off (clean the EGR ports again) and then pull the lower intake and check out the gaskets (and replace them as I beleive that is the source of my oil leak anyway).

Thanks again, I'll keep ya posted.

[tomj76]

The symptoms that you described on your other threads (oil consumption, blue smoke, lean codes, low compression) point to something more than vacuum leakage on the intake.

[defiant79]

Originally Posted by tomj76

The symptoms that you described on your other threads (oil consumption, blue smoke, lean codes, low compression) point to something more than vacuum leakage on the intake.

That was before the smoke and knocking starting, in the beginning all I had was a rough idle and a CEL for Lean Fuel bank (which went away after performing the TSB for the valve cover).

I'm not afraid to tear into this thing, I just don't have the time nor money to sit down and replace one thing after another. I want to be able to check/test as much as I can before I start replacing parts on something. If it turns out to be a camshaft so be it, I would prefer not to spend $400+ on stuff and have it come down to being a $200+ camshaft.

Hope that makes sense. I'd almost like to sell it and cut my losses, but I really like the van and it rides like new so I hate to get rid of it.

We got it in January with the CEL on. Had it looked at before buying and was told it probably needed an oxygen sensor (I've had to replace them on my taurus before so it made sense at the time). Week after we got it, starting doing some digging on the CEL and discovered the valve cover issue with these things. Ordered the kit and replaced the seals, bolts, and valve cover myself. Van ran great after that (still had a bit of a rough idle, but better than it had been). Finally sometime in april I beleive, the CEL came back on and started flashing on my way home from work. Had the codes scanned at Autozone and it was reporting lean on bank 1 and misfire detected on Cylinder 6. They recommended a tune up (I have no idea when/if it had been done before). That weekend we changed the plugs, plug wires, fuel filter, air filter, cleaned the MAF. Van ran great for about 2 miles and the the CEL light started blinking again. Had it looked at and was told the coil pack needed to be replaced. Replaced the coil pack and van seem to have a bit more pickup, but still the CEL started flashing and it was still misfiring, around this point it also developed the Knock and started to burn oil. Took into the Ford dealer for a final check, and they said that Cylinder 6 had a 50% loss of compression, and that it would cost me more to have them investigate whats causing it than it would for them to just replace the motor, at which point he quoted me $3200 for the motor and labor (I believe).


Thats about where we are now. There are several little things that need done (IMRC is missing the clips), but nothing evident that would cause this. I have to fix things at work, and I also play on and build computers on the side, so I'm not afraid to work on things. I will pull the lower intake and take a look at seals and stuff and see where that goes. If I need to I will pull that head off (just don't want to since the gasket would need replaced afterwards).

Thanks for your time everyone.

[tomj76]

So, your symptoms as of now are:

1) Oil consuption
2) Lean on Bank 1
3) Misfire on Cylinder 6
4) Compression on cyl 6 at 50% spec
5) Knocking sound, possibly from valve/rocker area

If you have the compression guage or can borrow one, then you can do the dry/wet test (check it, then squirt a teaspoon of oil into the spark plug hole, then check it again) in less than an hour, expecially since cyl 6 is easy to reach. The plug can be inspected while it's out for the compression check. If you decide to check the valve lift, you'll need a dial indicator guage to get it right, but a severe problem like you're seeing should be detectable with a course measurment with a straight edge and a decent ruler.

However, the oil, the compression both point to the rings. The compression tests should tell you.

Good luck.