'07 Uplander: Opportunity to Buy Left-Over

[Colt Hero]

I've been watching some '07 Uplander leftovers since March of this year waiting for the prices to become reasonable and one has finally dropped in price to make it attractive to buy:

'07 Uplander (brand new, but very left-over ... don't know the build date yet)

Only 20-30 miles on it (which seems to indicate a recent build date, but who knows), and allegedly an original purchase of this dealer (not transferred around).

Sticker is $30,700+.

LT-2 package (plus add-ons: Remote Start, XM radio, 6-CD changer)

Gold Mist Metallic exterior (not crazy about this) with custom cashmere cloth inside (which the dealer says is actually leather on the perimeter with cloth in the middle)? Wonder if that's really true.

Of course it has all the LT standard stuff like the DVD system, overhead rail system, roof rack, aluminum wheels, power doors on both sides, cruise, rear A/C (I think), dual stage air bags (not sure off-hand if it has side air bags, but I think so ... maybe no bags to the very rear??).

After seeing the price of these leftovers not budging below $27-$28k, this one has finally dropped to $23,700 (or 7k off the sticker). By my numbers this is a very good price, so I'm going give it my due diligence and see if I might want to buy it. I'll check the maintainability, play with the toys inside a little bit, and then take it for a telling drive because I've never driven these things before. Who knows - maybe I won't even like them.

Question is:

How does this deal sound to anyone here? It's about as good as you're going to get, right? The guy says he has the tag hanging in the window. Makes me wonder what's wrong with it. I guess I'll find out.

Of course, since I really don't have to buy anything this year, I could wait until January/February (or even as late as this time next year) for a 2008 Uplander left-over. Would there be an advantage to buying a 2008 over a 2007? I'd probably end up paying more, but I'd avoid taxes and insurance for a year, too. Another option is to wait for the 2009 Traverse - set to hit the dealer's lots this Fall. This is the Chevy version of the GMC Acadia/Buick Enclave and it looks really cool on the website - much more exciting than an Uplander. Two things concern me there, however: the up-front price will likely be more than an Uplander (because the rebates will probably be lower and there will be no carryover allowance since it will not be a left-over), and the MPGs could be actually be worse than the Uplander because even though it has the smaller engine 3.5 (vs 3.9 in the Uplander), it's supposedly 500 lbs heavier! The claim is the gas mileage will be the same, but something tells me it won't...

['97ventureowner]

Originally Posted by Colt Hero

Gold Mist Metallic exterior (not crazy about this)

I've owned vehicles with this color before and it's not that bad, it hides the dirt, especially in the winter.

Question is:

How does this deal sound to anyone here? It's about as good as you're going to get, right? The guy says he has the tag hanging in the window. Makes me wonder what's wrong with it. I guess I'll find out.

That's a hard question as I did a quick check on kbb.com . They didn't have the option to look up a NEW 2007 so I did a lookup on a used 2008 with those options and mileage and I also did the same for a 2007 model. Now I know the vehicle you are looking at is new but the prices I got for the 2008 was $23510, and the 2007 was $19,905. That tells me there is quite a difference between the 2 model years and you need to ask the question," Did the dealer take enough off the price to accommodate a year's depreciation on the 2007?"Perhaps you could call your bank or credit union and speak to the loan department and see if they have figures on the value of a new 2007 Uplander with the mileage and options you listed. Then you have a begood chance of negotiating a better price with the dealer.Are there any more incentives offered on these by the manufacturer or dealer. Maybe the dealer will go a bit lower if they are that interested in moving vehicles out the door.

Of course, since I really don't have to buy anything this year, I could wait until January/February (or even as late as this time next year) for a 2008 Uplander left-over. Would there be an advantage to buying a 2008 over a 2007?

It could end up being a gamble. 2008 is the last year for Uplanders so you may not be sure of the supply that are left, or getting something with the options you desire. Usually towards the end of a production run, I've seen dealers not carry any models because of that fact , rather relying on sales of currently made models, still in production. The slump in the auto industry could also be an advantage right now as dealers are bending over backwards to move "unpopular vehicles", mainly SUVs , minivans, and those vehicles with poorer fuel economy. It may not be as bad next year, (or it might be worse) and that could effect how much the dealer is willing to negotiate to move a vehicle.

Another option is to wait for the 2009 Traverse - set to hit the dealer's lots this Fall. This is the Chevy version of the GMC Acadia/Buick Enclave and it looks really cool on the website - much more exciting than an Uplander. Two things concern me there, however: the up-front price will likely be more than an Uplander (because the rebates will probably be lower and there will be no carryover allowance since it will not be a left-over), and the MPGs could be actually be worse than the Uplander because even though it has the smaller engine 3.5 (vs 3.9 in the Uplander), it's supposedly 500 lbs heavier! The claim is the gas mileage will be the same, but something tells me it won't...

Generally on newer vehicles such as this the dealer is usually unwilling to negotiate much on the price as they are "banking" on the newness and popularity of the vehicle to sell themselves. You are right as there would be fewer incentives to purchase, but that could change depending on how bad the slump affects the industry. Also keep in mind GM's track record for reliability on brand new models. Even I , a die hard GM fan knows not to purchase a first year model, and sometimes even second model year, as the bugs haven't been worked out of them yet.
A funny thing a bunch of us used to say about 20 years ago about GM. Their models have issues usually the 1st or 2nd model year, then they get progressively better as time goes on, and then once they get all the bugs out, they either discontinue the model, or redesign it. Then the whole cycle starts over again. If that is the case, then the Uplander should be pretty good as it's been out since 2005 and they are now discontinuing it

[Colt Hero]

By my numbers, if you start with the cost of the vehicle and then take out a $3000 rebate, the dealer holdback, and a carryover allowance, you're at $23,300, so $23,700 doesn't even give back all of the holdback money (only about half of it). Plus, there technically is no rebate on right now - it expired a few weeks back, but they're apparently factoring it in anyway. I've always wondered (and have directly asked but gotten no answer) what happens to the dealers when the rebate money comes and goes. Do they still have access to this money even when they sell when the rebate is OFF? I guess the answer is 'yes' (then they keep the rebate money, I guess). I think the rebate on the Uplander was AT LEAST $2000 the last time it was on. I think there was also a $1000 customer loyalty reward (for a month or so) that you could tack onto it for a grand total of $3000! So, it appears this dealer is throwing this allowance in on the sale of this vehicle even though the rebate and customer loyalty money have both expired!

As far as the first year vehicle thing - I'm with you on that one. I'd never buy a first year vehicle from ANY manufacturer. But in this case, the Traverse is just a re-badged Acadia/Enclave, so it's technically not a 'first-year' vehicle. Granted, the body and interior will be a little different than the other two, but the main components (engine/drivetrain) will be the same. The problems should therefore be isolated to the minor stuff like interior fit and finish - something GM can't seem to get right no matter HOW LONG they build their cars...

['97ventureowner]

Originally Posted by Colt Hero

The problems should therefore be isolated to the minor stuff like interior fit and finish - something GM can't seem to get right no matter HOW LONG they build their cars...

Maybe they do it that way for a reason. One word. Job Security

[Colt Hero]

OK, so I went for my test drive. I hadn't driven a minivan in 11 years, so it felt strange. Very cavernous inside - kind of like driving a bus. I guess that's how it felt back in '96/'97.

Here's my mini-review:

First of all, this was a 2007 LT-2 Uplander. It had the following added packages: XM Radio, Remote Start, 6-CD changer. The standard LT stuff includes a DVD system, MP3 compatibility on the radio, 2nd row captains' chairs, overhead rail system, driver information center, steering wheel controls, auto-sliding doors both sides, power rear-quarter windows, cruise, rear and dual heat & A/C, 5-spoke aluminum wheels, parking assist (beeps for safety), floor mats, roof rack (but no crossbars, must purchase those separately - salesman said I could get both for $75 b/c that's what a Yukon customer had paid... I was skeptical), 4-wheel disc brakes w/antilock, dual-stage front airbags plus 1st and 2nd row side airbags, floor console between front seats (called the 'utility tray'), leather steering wheel with radio controls, power windows, lighted visor mirrors, tinted glass, rear washer/wiper, power mirrors.

1.) Remote Start: worked well enough. The doors have to be locked to start the vehicle, then once you get in you have to insert the key and turn it to the START position (like you're actually starting the car - even though it's already running) in order to put the van in drive. Don't know if this is typical for Remote Start implementations, but it seemed OK to me.

1.) Seats: They were "custom cloth", which means leather on the perimeter with interior cloth panels. Since both were about the same color, it was hard to appreciate the effect. One thing I COULD appreciate is that the seats were VERY HARD and VERY FLAT, which wasn't necessarily a bad thing, just different-feeling. No "fist-in-the-back' feeling This was an LT-2, so it had the 6-way adjustable seat. When I first sat in the seat it felt like I was WAY TOO HIGH, so I tried adjusting it downward. Didn't seem to work, so I guess that's just the way it is. ALL the seats allegedly come out of the vehicle. The rear-most seats have a handle/bar at the base which allows them to pull out like a piece of luggage. So they're not stow-away, but with gas prices being high, maybe take-away is actually better (the back seats together probably weigh close to 100 lbs).

2.) Driveability: It was "OK" I guess. It's hard for me to be more precise than that because I have no frame of reference. I'll say this, though - when I stepped on the gas it seemed to respond pretty well. And it rolled along smoothly enough at 70mph (couldn't go much higher ... I was already risking a ticket in this area). Wind noise was average I'd say.

3.) Dashboard: Looked dated to me. Analog speedo, circular gauges, but mixed with some digital numbers (mileage, direction eg: "N/W"). Steering wheel felt OK, but it looked flimsy to me. I think it's all in how they design the center hub on a steering wheel. To my way of thinking, the center hub needs to look beefy and bulky or puffy to look good (Ford does a better job of this). This one had more air in the middle which makes it look cheap. Radio controls were OK. I just wasn't WOWed by anything here, but it all seemed to work well enough.

4.) Engine compartment: Looked easy enough to work on, although access to the backside of the engine IS obstructed by the cowl - something I thought WOULDN'T be the case with the newly-designed front-end. I guess it's better than the previous generation van, but maybe still not ideal.

-----------------

Am I going to buy this van? Probably not. I called the dealer before leaving to make sure the price he gave me was the "actual" price, AND to find out what the build date was. His answers were "well, there is a $129.42 doc fee", and "about 200 days". While the doc fee is lower than most dealership's number (this is a scam-a-rama, for sure), the door's build date revealed that this van was actually built in January of 2007!!!! - which meant it was closer to 600 days (and 1.6 years) old! The other thing I noticed under the hood was the plastic cover on the POSITIVE battery terminal was missing. Seems innocuous enough at first, but putting 2 and 2 together, I'm guessing this was probably due to the battery being jumped a number of times over the past year and a half. With maybe as many as 20 test drives over 1.6 years, the battery was being jumped so many times that the plastic cover either broke off or was ripped off by the low-man-on-the-totem-pole who had to perform the jumping. Made me wonder if the electrical system could've been adversely affected by this (and I don't know how you could tell without buying the van first).

Then of course there's the tires, wheels, and battery. On one rim was an "05" written in magic marker. Could this indicate a replaced rim? And the tires and battery are now almost two years old and might need replacement sooner than normal due to all the non-use. Not a big deal, but just another thing. Maybe I could get the price lowered even more with this argument, but this vehicle is SO left-over that it really makes you wonder why. Probably TOO left-over for me. Maybe I'm passing on a perfectly good vehicle at a very good price, but I think I'm going to wait until the end of this year or early next year for an '08 model (and maybe not an Uplander)...

['97ventureowner]

Originally Posted by Colt Hero

1.) Remote Start: worked well enough. The doors have to be locked to start the vehicle, then once you get in you have to insert the key and turn it to the START position (like you're actually starting the car - even though it's already running) in order to put the van in drive. Don't know if this is typical for Remote Start implementations, but it seemed OK to me.

Yes that is the way the remote start system is supposed to operate. I had a factory remote system installed about a year after buying my van at the dealer and this si how mine works.

4.) Engine compartment: Looked easy enough to work on, although access to the backside of the engine IS obstructed by the cowl - something I thought WOULDN'T be the case with the newly-designed front-end. I guess it's better than the previous generation van, but maybe still not ideal.

This is a big improvement over the vans they replaced. Now there is plenty of room to do preventative maintenance such as check brake fluid, power steering fluid and other necessary items. There is also more room to navigate around the engine bay if you need to do other repairs in the future. That is one of the first things I noticed when I was first looking at the van.

Then of course there's the tires, wheels, and battery. On one rim was an "05" written in magic marker. Could this indicate a replaced rim? And the tires and battery are now almost two years old and might need replacement sooner than normal due to all the non-use. Not a big deal, but just another thing. Maybe I could get the price lowered even more with this argument, but this vehicle is SO left-over that it really makes you wonder why. Probably TOO left-over for me. Maybe I'm passing on a perfectly good vehicle at a very good price, but I think I'm going to wait until the end of this year or early next year for an '08 model (and maybe not an Uplander)...

The "05" doesn't necessarily mean that the rim was replaced, it certainly doesn't refer to the model year '05 as those rims were 5 lug and the '06 and up are 6 lug. This was done to "beef up" the braking system after it was found that the '05s had issues with premature rotor warpage and wearing out and other minor issues.
I would definitely make notes of your findings and theories and attempt to use this info to negotiate a lower price from the dealer if you do decide to purchase it. If the dealer doesn't want to work on the price then walk out the door.

[Colt Hero]

Ahhhh, yes - you're right! I actually remembered reading that here and brought it up with the salesman (something he didn't know about) - but I had it wrong at first. I mentioned to him that there was something 'funny' about the lug nut arrangement on the wheels of these things, then I counted the lug nuts on the '07 and figured 6 was weird. Then I said the earlier models had a different number of lug nuts - but he had an '06 on the lot and it also had six, so I wasn't sure at that point WHAT I was talking about. But that's good that you've reiterated that here because it PROBABLY puts to rest any notion that that one wheel was replaced. Very good!

Another very minor thing I noticed, and was surprised to see, was the chevy logo/bowtie on the front grille peeling away inside its plastic casing!!! The salesman said it would be replaced for me, but it made me sad because it reminded me of a brand new '97 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme that I looked at back in '97. If you remember, the Supreme had a wide band of striping that wrapped around the rear of the car (encased in plastic). I think most of it was black, but there was some red and silver? pinstriping in there, too. On this one model, the pinstripes were severely flaking off inside the plastic cover. It looked HORRIBLE! The salesman back then said the same thing - they'd fix it - but it's pathetic that here we are 11 years later and the same problem still exists! Whoever bought one of those Supremes from the late '90's must've have all kinds of cosmetic problems to deal with. I remember another '97 (again brand new on the dealer lot) also had speaker grilles on the rear deck curling up and off (in addition to the flaking pinstripes I just mentioned). No - this Uplander overall looked pretty good - I didn't really see ANY cosmetic issues with it - except the flaking bowtie, but I guess the bottom line was: it just didn't WOW me like a prospective new vehicle should!

Just ran across a video online for the Taurus-X and was really WOWed by it. On the video, it appeared to be everything I'm looking for (sort of an oversized wagon), but upon closer inspection it's a re-designed Ford FreeStyle/Windstar (with a new engine) made to look more like a crossover/wagon. Looking at the actual specs at Edmunds, and comparing them to an Uplander, it's pretty much the same length (9" shorter), is a tad shorter (2"?), but a bit wider (2"), and has the same MPG rating (17/24). It would end up costing me more than the Uplander (about $3k-$4k) but I'd still like to see and drive it. Problem is, nobody around here has any. We're in between model years right now, so it's just bad timing I guess...

[Colt Hero]

This van is STILL available. In January it will officially be TWO YEARS OLD (but still considered new). Might have to make a ridiculously low offer to see if they'll let it go. I'm thinking $18k. Last price I got on it was $23k. Might be lower now, but I doubt it's down to $18k.

Or, I can wait on a left-over 2008 model. I've found about 30+ (LTs) out there that I would buy, plus another 40+ (LS) that I would buy if the first 30 sold on me. Is there any compelling reason to buy an '08 over an '07 if both are brand new?

[Colt Hero]

That dealer finally sold that '07 Uplander LT (in October '08) - (for $23k, presumably), so he avoided the embarrassment of owning it for two years. Missed by a couple of months.

So now I'm working the '08 leftover crop. Nobody wants to cut the price below a 10% discount right now. Par for the course, I guess. These vans are all stickered at $30k to $31k and everybody is asking $26k+ to $27k (including the rebate cash which consists of only $1000 cash plus an owner loyalty cash bonus of $1000, if you qualify). Each dealer is only throwing in an additional discount of about $1000. Pathetic. Eventually the discount on these vans will rise to 20%+, but who knows when that'll be. I'm in no rush or real need for a new vehicle, so I'll wait it out - until March, April, May, or later if necessary...