My first log

[Very Slow GS-T]

My car lost 20 horsepower to the wheels when I dynoed it. On 15 pounds of boost it made 276 horsepower to the wheels. When I turned my boost up to 17 pound my car mad 256 horsepower to the wheels. (For those of you that didn't know)
Can someone please help me point out my problem please!!!!!!

This log is on 10 pounds of boost with a garret 60 trim turbo, 660cc Injectors, 255 High Pressure Walbro Fuel Pump, stock Fuel Pressure Regulator, and the only thing I have to tune with is a SAFC II and a Datalogger.

AND I WAS GOING 100% FULL THROTTLE ON THIS LOG:


RPM Timing O2 1 Bank 1
2816----29------0.22
2968----28------0.88
3168----27------0.9
3336----27------0.9
3548----26------0.9
3776----22------0.9
4036----22------0.9
4288----22------0.9
4548----21------0.9
4816----21------0.9
5082----22------0.92
5352----21------0.92
5612----22------0.92
5852----23------0.92
6112----23------0.92
6336----24------0.92
6564----26------0.92
6772----27------0.92
6968----27------0.92
7136----26------0.92

My High Throttle on my SAFC are:

RPM Fuel Delivery
800 -36%
1400 -36%
2000 -30%
2600 -30%
3200 -30%
3800 -30%
4400 -30%
5000 -30%
5600 -32%
6200 -32%
6800 -32%
7400 -30%

My Throttle Position Points are 20 percent for low throttle and 50 percent for high throttle.
Can someone tell me where to richen or lean my car at. Please tell me at what rpm range and how much percent should I take off or put on on my fuel delivery.

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE.

[aves911]

Your timing is whacked. I've never seen a timing curve shifted that high before. Also when you were on the dyno, did they hook up the wideband, that would be very beneficial.

As another point of advice, if your pump is a 255 HP you will need to switch to an aftermarket regulator. FPR overrun makes accurate tuning nearly impossible.

As far as leaning or richening out, with a timing curve like that, its hard to say what you need to do without accurate AFR data.


Sorry this isn't much help
-Jacob

[spyderturbo007]

Originally Posted by aves911

Your timing is whacked. I've never seen a timing curve shifted that high before. Also when you were on the dyno, did they hook up the wideband, that would be very beneficial.

-Jacob

That's a new one. As far as the SAFC goes, most people recommend that the Lo throttle point be 30% and the high throttle point be 80%. But it's entirely up to you.

[kjewer1]

The correction factors are on the rich side for 660s, and based on your excessive timing I would leave it that way. This is what I am always talking about, the AFC adjsuts AFR and timing at the same time. Its a pain in the ass. Showing the ECU 30% less air than you are really flowing moves you further down on the load maps, raising timing. I think timing is right on for what I Would expect to see with 660s and 10 psi.

The only way to get out of this rut is to raise airflow (boost). Once over 2.1 g/rev the ECU is on its highest load map and peak timing is only 16-17 degrees (this is for 2g). So if you are 30% over 2.1 g/rev, even with the 30% correction you will still get "stock" timing. So as you raise boost and airflow timing will NATURALLY drop. Most people interpret this as knock THe trouble is the space in between. As you are raising airflow but not enough to get over 2.1 g/rev, you are stuck with high airflow AND high timing. So you may get knock "in between."

What I Would do is leave your settings where they are (they are still conservative), add in some race gas (for protection in case things go wrong) and try 20 psi and see what that gives you for both airflow and timing. If timing is high teens or low 20s, you should be able to sagely switch back to pump gas. Just log it right away to see that timing doesnt shift much.

In fact, if you can post airflow in your current state of tune that will help me determine what the ECU is trying to do.

There is a pretty good thread on all this elsewhere on the site, from about 2 weeks ago. See if that info helps as well.

[Very Slow GS-T]

Originally Posted by aves911

Your timing is whacked. I've never seen a timing curve shifted that high before. Also when you were on the dyno, did they hook up the wideband, that would be very beneficial.

As another point of advice, if your pump is a 255 HP you will need to switch to an aftermarket regulator. FPR overrun makes accurate tuning nearly impossible.

As far as leaning or richening out, with a timing curve like that, its hard to say what you need to do without accurate AFR data.


Sorry this isn't much help
-Jacob

Yes they hooked it up to a wideband O2 when they dynoed my car. I will get an aftermarket fpr soon. Could the reason I lost 20 horsepower to the wheels when I upped my boost be because I have a stock FPR? I have a loud, vibrating, suction rubber noise that happens every 1 second to half a second everytime I start to boost to finish boosting. Could the stock FPR be making this noise??

[Very Slow GS-T]

Originally Posted by 95 GSXracer

The correction factors are on the rich side for 660s, and based on your excessive timing I would leave it that way. This is what I am always talking about, the AFC adjsuts AFR and timing at the same time. Its a pain in the ass. Showing the ECU 30% less air than you are really flowing moves you further down on the load maps, raising timing. I think timing is right on for what I Would expect to see with 660s and 10 psi.

The only way to get out of this rut is to raise airflow (boost). Once over 2.1 g/rev the ECU is on its highest load map and peak timing is only 16-17 degrees (this is for 2g). So if you are 30% over 2.1 g/rev, even with the 30% correction you will still get "stock" timing. So as you raise boost and airflow timing will NATURALLY drop. Most people interpret this as knock THe trouble is the space in between. As you are raising airflow but not enough to get over 2.1 g/rev, you are stuck with high airflow AND high timing. So you may get knock "in between."

What I Would do is leave your settings where they are (they are still conservative), add in some race gas (for protection in case things go wrong) and try 20 psi and see what that gives you for both airflow and timing. If timing is high teens or low 20s, you should be able to sagely switch back to pump gas. Just log it right away to see that timing doesnt shift much.

In fact, if you can post airflow in your current state of tune that will help me determine what the ECU is trying to do.

There is a pretty good thread on all this elsewhere on the site, from about 2 weeks ago. See if that info helps as well.

What does 2.1 g/rev mean? I'm sorry I am a noob to all this tuning stuff. Should I give u a log from 15,16, or 17 pounds of boost first?.....before I put racing gas and run 20 pounds of boost and log it. I lost 20 horsepower to the wheels when I upped my boost from 15 to 17 pounds. Could it be my spark plugs and spark plug wires? I don't have aftermarket sparkplugs or sparkplug wires. Is there a way to log my car with this datalogger to find out if I need better spark plugs or spark plug wires? As I said before I have this loud, vibrating, suction rubber type of sound everytime I start boost to finishing boosting. Could this sound be my spark plugs or spark plug wires? ANY IDEAS? The dyno tuner had no idea what the sound was.

[aves911]

Kevin,

You're way to used to posting in the DSMLink forums. For the guys using only an SAFC, lb/min airflow and g/rev don't really mean much

g/rev is the mass of air per revolution consumed by the engine, its one of the factorys the ECU uses to determine the appropriate fuel and timing maps to use.

Like Kevin said, pulling 30% out with the AFC and then only running 10lbs, the ECU is almost on a cruise map!

Your best bet is like Kevin said, up the boost CAREFULLY until you can start flowing enough air to get the ECU to run the maximum airflow timing and fuel maps.

You can check your plugs to see the condition they are in to see if they need to be replaced. A suction or whistling noise is normal through metal IC pipes, but it might be in your best interest to do a boost leak test to see if you have any leaks. With a 60 Trim you can get away with running boost around 20psi without damaging anything, if you are tentive when tuning. I.e. watch your EGT gauge, make sure things don't get too hot, ect.

-Jacob

[Very Slow GS-T]

Originally Posted by aves911

Kevin,

You're way to used to posting in the DSMLink forums. For the guys using only an SAFC, lb/min airflow and g/rev don't really mean much

g/rev is the mass of air per revolution consumed by the engine, its one of the factorys the ECU uses to determine the appropriate fuel and timing maps to use.

Like Kevin said, pulling 30% out with the AFC and then only running 10lbs, the ECU is almost on a cruise map!

Your best bet is like Kevin said, up the boost CAREFULLY until you can start flowing enough air to get the ECU to run the maximum airflow timing and fuel maps.

You can check your plugs to see the condition they are in to see if they need to be replaced. A suction or whistling noise is normal through metal IC pipes, but it might be in your best interest to do a boost leak test to see if you have any leaks. With a 60 Trim you can get away with running boost around 20psi without damaging anything, if you are tentive when tuning. I.e. watch your EGT gauge, make sure things don't get too hot, ect.

-Jacob

This vibrating suction noise aint coming from the metal intercooler pipes, believe me. I know what that sounds like and what turbo spooling sounds like. This noise is a loud ass noise, that sounds like a vibrating piece of rubber or something. When I hear this noise every second or so when I am boosting I all so feel hesitation. It's not a (slam your head into the windshield) kind of hesitation but u could tell it hesitates. I don't have an EGT gauge so..is there something with my datalogger i could keep my eye on like intake air temperature or something and what's the highest temp it should read before i should stop trying to up the boost? What is the max timing I should go when I am upping my boost, before my engine blows? Should the max be in the high 30s or 40s or what?? About the boost leak test...when my turbo spools, my boost goes up and it stays there...so I don't think I have a boost leak.

[spyderturbo007]

If I remember correctly, the air intake temperature is measured before the turbo & intercooler. So you shouldn't see a difference in intake temps by uping the boost. All I know is that over 84 or 85 degrees the ECU pulls 1 degree of timing.

[kjewer1]

Thanks for cleaing up aves, I am a little too comfortable with this stuff sometimes

Sounds to me like you have a boost leak. Any further discussion is useless until that is fixed. That could EASILY be the source of the drop in power. Raising boost with a big boost leak makes things progressively richer (less power). Take care of that first.

[Very Slow GS-T]

Originally Posted by 95 GSXracer

Thanks for cleaing up aves, I am a little too comfortable with this stuff sometimes

Sounds to me like you have a boost leak. Any further discussion is useless until that is fixed. That could EASILY be the source of the drop in power. Raising boost with a big boost leak makes things progressively richer (less power). Take care of that first.

Doesn't boost drop down when u have a boost leak? I gain boost and it stays at the same boost till redline. Doesn't that mean I have no boost leak?

[kjewer1]

Not at all! The turbo will simply flow more to make up the lost air to maintain boost. Thats how it works when you have closed loop (feedback) boost control. Only if you excede the flow limits of the turbo will boost actually drop. Always do boost leak tests.