Full length headers

I have an 87 Camaro and I'm looking for a mass-produced (read: not uber-expensive) set of full length headers that will fit around the cradle and steering linkage. Exhaust clearance itself isn't an issue since I will be using a set of side pipes, and If I have to raise and/or channel the floor so be it. I'm custom installing willwood clutch/brake pedals and a lokar accelerator pedal, so it's no big deal. The biggest issues are avoiding the steering column shaft on the driver's side, and comming just under the firewall with the collectors.

Every retailer I've tried will only recommend the shorty headers, but I'm sure someone has found a full set that fits.

I'm partial to hooker, but I'll take any fair quailty header I can get at this point, the only alternative being weld-your-own.

"Shorties" are the "rage" today because they're easier to install. They do NOT "work" nearly as well. Hooker supplies the full-length versions. Part number 2210 is the "SuperComp", and 2460 is the "Comp" version. The SuperComps will make significantly more power, at a higher price. This assumes your Camaro has a small block in it.

I suggest you buy them uncoated and have a professional coating shop do it. We've found that to be much better than the ceramic coatings offered by header companies. We use Thermal Tech in Hopewell, Virginia, and have a "thermal barrier" applied. Jet Hot and Swain are two other coating companies that come to mind.

Jim

Of course, I should have mentioned that. I realize some people shoehorn big block in 3rd gens, while others will soup up the 2.8 for the bragging rights of getting 300+ hp from one.

Mine is indeed a traditional late style carbureted small block, a hybrid of the new roller cam with the non-vortec/e-tec heads and intake. (abandoned for f-body and caprice in 88 but stayed on in the trucks for a little longer) Eventually it will be a dart little m based motor with trick flow heads, a weiand 6-71 or 8-71 and hillborn injection with a birdcatcher throttle body (everyone needs to own at least one car with a birdcatcher!) , but for now the lil' 305 makes a good tool for mocking up the drivetrain. With a little luck, I can figure out how to get the pipes around the subframe connectors. At least I have plenty of room to see what's going on, I had to cut the factory floors out to stop the rust. (Stupid t-top seals!)

This is going to be a back-halved four link car with a Ford 9" and a rockland 6 speed someday. With any luck, I'll get a sub 10 second quarter mile out of it while keeping street manners. In practical sense, I can get it to run under 12 :)

Before I get there, I have some bugs to work out, like not having floors, and the fact the last owner tried to out smart "that stupid ass computer" by cutting all the wires to the e4me quadrajet and causing the fuel mixture to stick permanatly at a level suitable for starting and warming up in 15 degree weather. Beyond that, he cut out the WORKING a/c, ripped off the smog pump, and trashed the egr system somehow so that it no longer works either. The EST on the dizzy doesn't seem to be right either. I'm in the proccess of fitting a performer intake, mallory hei, eliminating the EGR and putting headers on it. Should be a nice test mill when I'm done.
Jet Hot coatings are great, my buddy has them on both his 440 6bbl 69 Super Bee
and his 440 4bbl 69 coronet wagon (the former is number's matching, the later was a factory 318 car)

Thanks for the part numbers.
http://my.core.com/%7Eczeck1/ladyluckhomecomming.jpeg

PS

Yes, those are white wall blizzak snow tires in the rear. Also yes, those are Oldsmobile rally wheels. It did have 16" IROC wheels but they were stolen and the car left on blocks. My buddy's dad runs a junkyard, which is how I got this car. That past owner who outsmarted the computer got upset and junked the car. (it was GM's fault it hardly ran, and not his stupidity, or so he says)

The wheels were stolen off it, so Keith was kind enough to loan me the Cutlas wheels till I found some plain steallies to roll it around on.

Well, I'm certainly "on board" for the Little M. GREAT block. If you plan to "spray" it or use the blower, be sure to get a block with 400 mains, NOT 350 mains. We've seen too many cracked or broken cranks from trying to make too much power. The 400 crank size is MUCH tougher. The Little M eliminates the issues with the stock block. Be sure to use a high quality FORGED steel crank, too. The imported "cast steel" units won't live. Up to 422 CID, they make pretty good street engines. Beyond that, they're a bit "thin" and finicky.

You might wanna rethink the heads, though. We've found the best heads today, UNPORTED, are the RHS or ProTopline (same head, different supplier). If porting is to be done (highly recommended, especially with a blower), Dart is the way to go. The Pro-1 is hard to argue with... Edelbrock has announced some new offerings for the small block, as well. Their stuff shouldn't be taken "lightly".

Jim

Trick Flow has blueprinted head/cam packages which I have been very pleased to see build some decent power without losing a lot of bottom end, which is why I picked them. By using Rhoad's variable hydraulic roller lifters, I should be able to get the most out of the high rpms without losing fuel savings from cruising at low r's in OD on the freeway.

Victor & Co are still building great stuff, I agree. Chances are I may toss some performer heads on the 305 at some point. After it's role as "moves the camaro to-and-fro till I build a real motor lump", it'll undoubtedly find itself a new home, so it's worth it to make it run well.

Well, I would advise you get your advice from somewhere besides those trying to sell you something. Rhoads lifters (or ay other "fast bleed" lifter) are a "patch" for a poor cam choice. If you pick the right grind to start with, no need to "play games" with it. Trust me. We went through this Rhoads thing many years ago when cams for Pontiacs were not exactly "plentiful" (selection, not "volume").

I have yet to see a ""package" from ANY head supplier that is truly optimium. For example, Edelbrock's "total packages" use ancient "generi-grind" cams, left over from the '70s. One can put together a much more powerful and durable combination by using the best components from various suppliers, that specialize in that particular component. An E-headed/manifolded small block will make MUCH better power with a Comp grind, appropriate for the specific application, than it would with the Edelbrock "package". If T/F is actually recommending Rhoads lifters, RUN AWAY!!!

Jim

No, no recommendations there. I suppose it was just a bit too much wishful thinking on my part, hoping that the gimmick lifters would make up for the lack of bottom end with a wild cam. It's a matter of wanting to have my cake and eat it as well.

In this case, the cake would pull strong from off-idle all the way up to 7000 rpm.

The real solution would be to use a modern LS series engine with cam phasers. A LS9 sure would be fun. I did have my heart set on a traditional iron small block though.

I guess I can't have cake. Maybe I'll have pie instead.

Not so! We do it all the time.

We have a package for the 383 small block, that makes an honest 500 HP on 93 octane, pulls right off idle to about 6,800 RPM. You can't do it with cheepie-chugger parts, though. Dart Pro-1s, Comp solid roller, Eagle rotating kit (FORGED), Performer RPM Air Gap, AED 750HO, MSD... And good port work and block work are essential for both power production AND longevity. If one were to add a small blower, ProCharger maybe... This thing would be a 750-plus BEAST.

Jim

I've always heard solid tappets were a bit harsh for street use, is that a myth? How often are lash adjustments needed?

The fuel system of choice for me would be Hillborn EFI, three reasons

1. Reputation in the fuel injection industry going back decades
2. Ready 2 run manifold and throttle body setups for use with roots blowers
3. Nothing says "Bad ass" like a birdcatcher throttle body sticking out of the hood

And yes, for aesthetics, the roots blower is a must, at least a 6-71. When the throttle body says "bad ass", the big honking drive belt says "And I'll prove it if need be"

I know I could go with dominator or 4150hp style carbs, but I'm spoiled by the 24/7 365 reliability of EFI. No such thing as a hard start, no ether, and no hassle with jetting when the weather changes or someone looks at the carbs cross-eyed.

Eagle was my choice for crank and rods, JE or ross pistons, Total Seal rings, ARP fasteners, Miloden oiling system parts. Unsure about gaskets, still researching. Thinking about a copper head gasket. What's the deal with o-ring cylinder seals, are they worth the machining?

Dart heads, well, seeing as how they build the world's toughest iron Chevy small bock, you don't have to twist my arm to get me to belive they build a decent head.

Comp cams are great, though it is tempting to give Isky a call and get a custom grind taylored to the build. Tempting, but expensive (says the guy building the $12,000 engine, ha ha)