93 Geo Metro Problem

Hi there,

Ive been having a problem lately with my car that when I get to higher speeds (basically anything in 5th gear) my car begins to cut out...as in sputtering. The car actually has done it in 3rd and 4th gear as well. It doesn't do it all the time though, I went through a 2 month period where it didn't do it once, but now it's doing it again. I've replaced the distributor cap, the distributor button, the spark plugs, and the spark plug wires, and fuel filter...I was thinking maybe a faulty fuel pump, fuel injector, or for some odd reason the ignition coil (the resistance end actually runs outside of the normal range it's supposed to be at, it's supposed to be in the 19-24 ohms range but it's running at 26). Any suggestions would be helpful cuz I'm starting to run low on ideas because I don't know if it's electrical or emissions related. Thanks in advance.

Just some ideas.....

So this happens at high rpm?

How old and how many miles on the car?

Maybe the fuel pump is old. About $200 at Shucks and a day to replace if
you drop the tank yourself.
I did it - not bad - just a bother. I put my filter beside the TBI afterward!

See "NOT the end of my '93 metro...Life after death! RINGS"
Somewhere in that huge Thread is how I did it (with pictures)

Do you have a good vacuum?

Is your fuel pressure where it is supposed to be?
....a fuel pressure gauge costs under $10 at Harbor Freight. You need a "T"
and some rubber fuel line hose.
....there is a rubber Fuel Pressure Regulator flap on top of the TBI.....that
may be aging - not very difficult to replace ($40 - Shucks) except that the bolts are
glued in place in the threads and they can break off.
Again in - "NOT the end of my '93 metro...Life after death! RINGS" with pictures.

Have you put a can of Injector Cleaner thru the gas?

The single TBI Injector can be found in almost any wrecking yard or "pull-n-Save"
and replaced "just for the Hell of it..."

DoctorBill

The car is a 93 metro with a little over 113,000 miles on it...so, its's really not all that bad. I don't know of the vacuum pressure cuz I haven't tried it quite yet...but will. The fuel injector cleaner I have tried and it didn't seem to help much, I actually used a fuel system cleaner which according to it, it said it cleans everything in the system (fuel injector, fuel pump, ect.) Thank you for the ideas, they're very much appreciated and if I don't have any luck I'll try back, or I'll update on the situation to maybe help others out.

One of my "standard replies" now is to check the cylinder compression.

I resisted doing that for a long time 'cause I am very cheap!

I didn't want to spend the few bucks ($30) on a Compression Gauge....

Once I did the test, it told me my valves were gone.

Is your oil getting black after 500 to 1,000 miles after the oil change?

If so, maybe bad Rings.

So many things can zap you, but after 100,000 miles, I would imagine the basics
of bad Valves and Rings can become the causitive factor.

I didn't realize it, until someone on here told me, that a chunk of carbon off
the top of a piston can lodge between the Valve and the Head and the valve
can burn thru very quickly because it cannot close all the way!

The tops of my pistons had Carbon deposits which probably broke off and
zapped my #1 exhaust valve. Burned away one side of it!

I took off the head (easy), had it rebuilt, took out my pistons (engine still in
the car) and replaced the Rings.

Once that was fixed, my car acted like it had a new engine.

My oil remains pristine even out to 3,000 miles! Lot of POWER!

DoctorBill

Actually, I wouldn't know how often the oil turns black because I have to add oil in it weekly...I'm sure the rings are shot in it, the people who had it before me didn't exactly take the best care of it. I've only put 5,000 miles on it. If i let it idle you can see a huge cloud of smoke come out of the tail pipe...so I'm sure the engine could use an overhaul. Any idea on about how much all of that could cost? Not by a mechanic though, I'd rather do it myself and my grandfather who works for Ford so I know it couldn't get messed up. And also, where could I get the compression gauge? Just any automotive store?

can ask dr bill about the cost on the rebuild with machine work. when i get these cars in i just buy one of the low mile engines that come from japan. if you look on e-bay or in your local free want add paper they are usually places selling them. should cost you $375-475 for one

"Actually, I wouldn't know how often the oil turns black because I have to
add oil in it weekly...I'm sure the rings are shot in it, the people who had it
before me didn't exactly take the best care of it. I've only put 5,000 miles on it.
If i let it idle you can see a huge cloud of smoke come out of the tail pipe...so
I'm sure the engine could use an overhaul. Any idea on about how much all of
that could cost? Not by a mechanic though, I'd rather do it myself and my
grandfather who works for Ford so I know it couldn't get messed up. And also,
where could I get the compression gauge? Just any automotive store?"

Not trying to be a Butt, but had you said that before, EVERYONE could have told you what is wrong with it.

It is a 3 cylinder engine - no?

It is pooped out!

Is the rest of the car in good enough shape to justify the monetary output?

Yes, any auto parts store, Sears, Harbor Freight, etc sells Compression Gauges.

If you want to do it yourself, then read thru my Thread as stated previously.

I did it with my own two hands for about $450 parts including Fuel Pump
(which you probably don't need to replace).

Head rebuild - $230 Rings - $45 Rod Bearings - $40 Misc - $50 More or Less...

Go do some phone calls to Head Rebuilders - get a price quote beforehand.
Get on Shucks web site and price the Rings and Rod Bearings so you'll know...
Ignorance is expensive.
http://www.partsamerica.com/Default.aspx

I show all the steps with pictures of each step - all my mistakes and
misgivings are there for all the world to see....but I now have a car that acts like
it is NEW!

I call it The Phoenix because it arose from the ashes!

Here are my links to my rebuild and what led up to it...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I thought my Throttle Body was bad...I'd advise reading this link in any case...
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=609129

Don't think I needed to do that however....but you might read the thread (?)
At least start there.....it is long.....

Beginning of Rebuild...
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=611713

Thread continued with Rings and Cylinders rebuild
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=613410

This is the Thread where I finally FIXED my '93 Geo Metro 3 cyl....runs like a top!
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=645309
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

.....OR.........

Do what Crvett69 suggests and buy a used engine and slap it in there...

He does it all the time.....Crvett69 is one of the best guys on this Forum for help and
words of wisdom.....May God Bless him! for all his help!

DoctorBill

Well, I'd like to try and get a different one...but there is a guy at work who has worked on about 3 or 4 and it ends up doing this to him eventually so I think I'd like to just fix this one up cuz it's really not in bad condition at all. My dad and I were outside looking at for a little bit and we used a timing gun just to check the timing, we found that it was at 3 degrees instead of 5 so we adjusted that and it ran a little better, but still sputtered...so that must not have been the problem, but still necessary to do. We then checked the ignition coil because it seems like it can't be fuel, so something electrical. We found that the primary resistance is supposed to be between 1.35 to 1.55 ohms...when we checked it, it came out to 1.9 ohms...could that 3 tenths possibly throw it off that much to make the engine do that? The secondary resistance was right in the middle of the range though...so, we aren't quite sure. Oh, I just read your last post...it is a 3 cyc engine. But I don't see how the engine could be shot though...doesn't make sense to me is all. It just burns oil which is a ring issue...this problem isn't consistant as I've said so if the engine were shot then it'd be constant. Doesn't that make sense? I do thank you guys for your input, it has given me alot to think about and possible solutions to this problem.

It is up to you whether you rebuild or change engines for a used one....

Crvett69 likes popping in the somewhat used engines and argues for that.

I liked the experience and knowing what is finally under the hood when I am done.

It is a matter of opinion and preferences....

"Six of one - half a dozen of the other"

Whether you pronounce it "Tomaaayto" or "Tomaaahto"

I would do mine again if I had another used Geo Metro 3 cyl.

In fact I have contemplated buying another used one and doing it all over again...


However, no-one in my family wants to drive a Geo Metro - too small !

"Toy Car" as someone called it.

I love the little bugger! You can't not like 45 miles per gallon and being
able to drive like a sports car.

Only thing is - people like to back into them in Wal-Mart's parking lot!

Rampant Jerkism....Putzbrains....Morons....

Look thru the links I put before.....especially the LAST ONE where I do the
dance of joy!

DoctorBill

PS - bite the bullet and buy a Compression tester!

You don't know what the previous owner did to that car!

If it was a woman, I'd bet she ran it w/o adding oil until the light came on.....like most women do...

I love the gas mileage...I drive about 45 miles round trip to my job everyday and everyone at work complains about 3 bucks a gallon for gas and how they put 40 bucks and up a week...mines a mere 20 at the most and lasts me all week. Couldn't ask for anything better. I am planning on buying a compression gauge and a fuel pressure gauge over the weekend and my dad and I will access it from there...thank you guys for all the suggestions and I shall update accordingly.

Well...WHAT HAPPENED?

I'm dying to know what your '93 Geo Metro's problem is/was...!

Hopefully was.

DoctorBill

Well...I baught a new ignition coil...only to find that it's STILL doing the same thing it was doing before. I also checked the regulator flap and that was fine, actually looked new...so I'm kinda stuck again...it's like electrical so much, but I don't know what else can be replaced honestly...any more suggestions?

YES - BUT - WHAT HAPPENED TO....."I am planning on buying a compression gauge and
a fuel pressure gauge over the weekend and my dad and I will access it from
there... ??

DoctorBill

Didn't quite get to that, I didn't have a chance to run up to Harbor Freight...I am sometime this week though, I have a day off...not to worry, I'm not giving up on this quite yet.

Here's an update for you ladies and gents:

My grandfather works for ford and so he has all the necessary gauges and such to figure out the problem...he came over today and diagnosed that the fuel tank could be full of dirt, water, oil, whatever else could get in. He said he's seen it all the time, which is why it's so intermitten. So next weekend we are going to remove it and completely clean it out and it should hopefully fix it.

Here's an update for you ladies and gents:

My grandfather works for ford and so he has all the necessary gauges and such to figure out the problem...he came over today and diagnosed that the fuel tank could be full of dirt, water, oil, whatever else could get in. He said he's seen it all the time, which is why it's so intermitten. So next weekend we are going to remove it and completely clean it out and it should hopefully fix it.
The car may have some rust debris in the tank and on the "Sock" filter screen for the fuel pump...but I doubt you'll find any oil or water in the tank if you've been running the car. If your going to be dropping the fuel tank and the fuel pump is the "Original"....I'd seriously consider cleaning out the fuel tank and putting in a NEW fuel pump kit (Inc screen)....However, you state that "If i let it idle you can see a huge cloud of smoke come out of the tail pipe...so I'm sure the engine could use an overhaul. "..... And if your putting oil in the car weekly.....This is most likely the cause of your loss of power......Do the compression check as allready advised!...My :2cents: says your going to find some low readings! Keep in mind with the cost of fuel these days, a engine rebuild or replacement will pay for itself in NO time with the fuel savings you get from these 3 Cyl Metro's!