EGR was bad replaced and still stalling HELP

My 1994 Lesabre is giving me a run for my money now. I was gonna replace the CPS until we had a diagnostics testing done. All that showed up was the cruise control. Now my check engine light is on and computer shows nothing. Then we had individual parts tested and the only thing bad was the EGR.
Only one bad vac line and we replaced it. All pressure is good and now the damn thing is stalling everyday. At a stop or low idle, not while driving.
Understandably the new EGR could be bad, but it's brand new from the parts store and the old EGR looked new as well, but it wasn't showing a reading at all on the individual test so we replaced it.
Now I'm pissed and about to become a parts changer.
Remember we replaced the ground bus at the start of the whole thing, could it be bad again?
But when it stalls it immediately restarts and I dont want to make my hubby and his friend replace my CPS if not necessary because it's one of the harder items to replace.

Please help me solve this problem even the mechanics tell me nothing is wrong since nothing shows up on reading.

Now my check engine light is on and computer shows nothing If the Check Engine light is on [SES] a code has been set.
What, specifically, are you doing in your efforts to 'read' the codes ??


Then we had individual parts tested and the only thing bad was the EGR. Just what was the 'test' performed on the EGR, which indicated it was bad ??

I dont know exactly what it was, but I do know that the only code set was a cruise control sensor, because I have the print out. The reason that was on was because somehow the cruise control got turned on, but it doesn't work so it set a sensor, and the mechanic said that the cruise control would continue to come on and off, but now it's on, for a full 24 h ours now.
I just dropped it off to have the crankshaft sensor replaced because I have this gut feeling.
There are no other codes set in the computer. We even reset the computer and then had it read once the light came on and it still said cruise control sensor.
We had a complete diagnostics testing done. All I know is when they did the individual test, the meter or whatever they use didn't move for the EGR.
I'll let you all know what happens after the CPS is replaced. We would have done it ourselves but we couldn't locate a tool anywhere near us that could be rented or purchased to be able to pull the harmonic balancer and align the CPS.
The cost of repair was only gonna cost $65 plus we purchased the CPS for $30.00 so it was either us doing it and renting a tool of having done at a decent price form a trusted mechanic.

So today I noticed new symptoms on this piece. When it stalls and is restarted, which it does immediately, it blows out black smoke. You can also feel the car revving up and down at a stop or in park in order to keep it running. The exhaust stinks, and to my understanding it's running rich because it's trying not to stall.
But.. while trying not to stall it blows out dark smoke, I wouldn't say black because on a sunny day it's barely noticeable but you can see it.
When applying pressure it will bog down first or do nothing at all and then when it gets fuel it will take off. SOmetimes with sputtering until getting up to about 40 moh.
It seems every part I replace brings along new symptoms. Now it's to thepoint I cant even drive 6 minutes without it starting to screw up on me. Sometimes it stalls other times it has no pressure until pushed hard, or harder than should be.
All new fuel lines, fuel pump, fuel sock, fuel filter, gas tank has been cleaned and all this within the last 6 weeks. Could it be the catalytic converter?

IMO your symptoms is not consistent with a bad crank position sensor, CAT convertor is possible. It sounds like you are getting a rich trim causing the excess fuel to the fuel injection system. Another possible cause based on your symptoms could be the MAF sensor. Try disconnecting it and see what it does or remove to clean the cold wire sensor element with MAF spray cleaner or electrical contact cleaner. When MAF is disconnected the ECM module will use preprogrammed MAF/VAF tables and other engine sensors. Doesn't cost anything to try this test. Good luck.

We have already disconnected the MAF and it set a trouble code in our computer because it was disconnected. We were gonna clean the little wire thing but couldn't figure out how. We were gonna try caburetor cleaner, will this work? When disconnected it runs decent, but we tried this a few dyas ago, before the symptoms got considerably worse. Thanks a lot. Anything at this point we'll try since we have spent some money in the last week repairing things that apparently weren't needed.
I figure look on the bright side, as soon as we fix it at least we'll have a new EGR, fuel pump, fuel filter, clean gas tank, CPS, new spark plugs and wires, oil was changed, starter, and I cant think of anymore, but I do know we've replaced more, oh yeah and all vacuum lines, LOL.
Let you know how this works. Thanks

Carb cleaner has chemicals like xylene, acetone and methanol which will damage electrical/electronic components so I would not use it. If the driveability improves including proper idle even though a DTC sets with the MAF disconnected then I would look into the MAF. Cleaning first and then replacement next. It can be removed and then use MAF spray cleaner like from from Gunk by spraying directly on the wire element and let dry.

I did this/ I went and bought CRC Mass Air Flow Cleaner, cleaned it 3 times, and it's still stalling. When I disconnected the MAF it stalled within 20 seconds. I replaced two more vac lines I saw that were a little worn and it only made the problem worse. I'm at a loss now. My dad says vapor locked because how you have to push the gas pedal a little harder. All the fuel lines are insulated but I guess we're gonna put it on a lift to check all of them. I guess we've pretty much narrowed it down to the fuel system, but what, I have no idea.

So today I noticed new symptoms on this piece. When it stalls and is restarted, which it does immediately, it blows out black smoke. You can also feel the car revving up and down at a stop or in park in order to keep it running. The exhaust stinks, and to my understanding it's running rich because it's trying not to stall.
But.. while trying not to stall it blows out dark smoke, I wouldn't say black because on a sunny day it's barely noticeable but you can see it.
When applying pressure it will bog down first or do nothing at all and then when it gets fuel it will take off. SOmetimes with sputtering until getting up to about 40 moh.

This sure sounds like the classic symptoms of a bad fuel pressure regulator.:uhoh: Pull the vacuum line and see if it has any traces of wet fuel. Also check fuel pressure at the rail. It should be 38-45 @ idle, no higher.:nono:

This sure sounds like the classic symptoms of a bad fuel pressure regulator.:uhoh: Pull the vacuum line and see if it has any traces of wet fuel. Also check fuel pressure at the rail. It should be 38-45 @ idle, no higher.:nono:

Where is the fuel pressure regulator? Today I noticed sort of a whining near the fuel tank and pump area in the passenger rear of the car. It started after we drove around for about an hour, very few sputterings, but after the whining stopped, about 5 minutes later, we had to throw it in neutral a few times to rev the gas to keep it on. Then it ran the last 20 miles decently with only a few sputterings, but we were doing 45 at a constant after that. Could that be possible of a bad fuel pressure regulator?

We did a fuel pressure check, at idle it runs about 38 - 40. But, when we give it gas, slightly, like when we would drive at 1 - 25 mph, it drops to about 33 - 34. Would that be a pressure regulator?

It seems I'm having the same problem with my 93. If I find the fix I'll let you know what it was. If you do let us know the fix on the thread. I see a good many folks on the forum with similar problems. Mine is worse on warm days after I've driven it for about 20 minutes.:shakehead :banghead:

We did a fuel pressure check, at idle it runs about 38 - 40. But, when we give it gas, slightly, like when we would drive at 1 - 25 mph, it drops to about 33 - 34. Would that be a pressure regulator?

FPR is possible but hard to say without further diagnostics. What is your fuel pressure reading at fuel pump prime? This is watching the gauge and taking igniton switch to on not start a few times. Look for the highest reading. Range should be 41-47 psi. Next start engine and again look at fuel pressure at idle. Record reading. Then again at idle remove the vacuum line at the FPR and record reading. Compare readings. If the difference of the latter two readings is more than a difference or range of 5-7 psi then the FPR is suspect.

Some minor loss of fuel pressure could be normal while testing fuel pressure while car is moving. The fuel injectors are working so pressure may drop. Fuel pressure at idle should be at its highest with vacuum removed at the FPR. At idle engine vacuum is the strongest while at part or open throttle engine vacuum decreases. Also, it would not hurt to connect an automotive vacuum tester (0-30 in hg) at the intake manifold or throttle body to rule out possible loss of engine vacuum.

That is all I can think of for now without getting into other possible issues like the O2 sensor or engine coolant temperature sensor. One step at a time.

The problem is fixed. We've driven over 300 miles and the car is running GREAT. It was the FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR. I have to say that tthis was the most expensive fix for this little part after we started changing parts.
We called around for the part with prices at $130 and over, most expensive we found 150. Then I went on the parts store websites and if ordered directly from the manufacturer I could spend as little as 65. So I call Napa first because they were only 63.49 and i wanted to see if they carried the part in store, and guess what they did at a only 45 dollars.
Then my neighbor who is a mechanic for GMC Pontiac at a major dealer brought me the part home, but it was for a 1998, so thats saying he wroks on them cars all day and thought mine was a 1998, so it must look good, LOL.
Thanks to all of yall who helped. Now I can drive and feel the real Lesabre smoothness and not have to worry that it's gonna stall. Thanks again.

Well, congratulations on getting that thing fixed! It is hard to believe that the mechanics who were working on your car, never suspected the fuel pressure regulator! Remember, fuel problems will not set a code and if none of the codes match the symptoms, then you use logic and look elsewhere. It is a shame that you had to go online to get this problem resolved, however, that is the reason so many people resort to AF for technical advice rather than depending on the “goober” mechanics. We do have some folks at AF who use logic to diagnose problems. BTW, your detailed descriptions of the problem, was what helped bring this to a resolution. Good feedback and detective work!:grinyes:

I have the same car. Could you please tell me where the EGR is located. It's not in Chilton or Motor. I fugure it's under my nose, but I still can't find it.
TIA

Ok, so I get in the car to take my daughter to school, and at 40 mph it started sputtering. I was thinking I must be imagining this. When I let my daughter out at the car loop I smelled a bad exhaust and was thinknig the car in front of me stinks!
Next thing I know, about 3 miles from the school, it sputtered and lost fuel pressure at the light push of the gas pedal.
Then..... it stalls!
At every stop and slow down it sputtered or acted like there was no fuel pressure again. Exact same symptoms. It ran fine for like 9 days or something like that, and now i have a new job to go to tomorrow 25 miles away and I cant go with this POS.
I am so pissed. Could it be a faulty regulator? I guess that's what I'm gonna try and do, remove the fuel regulator and replace because it does have a 1 year warranty.
Any other help, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!!

Oh I called Napa to ask about my 1 year warranty on the part. Remember when I bought the part I said it was the cheapest I could find at only 45 bucks where as everyone else was 130 or higher and Central topped out at 150, but anyways, I know the line is a CBR fuel regulator the box says Echlin fuel regulator. I dont know if this helps to see if I bought a piece of crap part.

Napa said try changing the O2 sensor. I said the computer was only showing a cruise control sensor reading. He said they were all connected to change that.

Your problem has all the signature makings of clogged catalytic converter. Is the floor areae between the 2 front seats exceptionally hot? Your exhaust smell a little on the side of a egg salad sandwich?

I'll allow this new thread on a recent issue well discussed before. Here is a link to the old thread so there is no confusion and members can see this in context. In the future please reference the other thread.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=687038

Doh!

They should probably be merged as it's a ongoing problem.

Doh!

They should probably be merged as it's a ongoing problem.

I was going to let Bo (HotZ28) handle that. :grinyes:

Sorry I forgot to mention the other post, I was just really P/O this morning and ready to go off.

I dont think it smells like an egg salad sandwich. I have heard that before, but it could possibly pass as a very hot and overheated egg salad sandwich.

Why would the fuel regulator fix the problem for a week or so and then it mess up again? The guy at NAPA said O2, but I dont think so, because like I said the fuel regulator fixed it great and now, all over again. Nothing new, the exact same symptoms, low fuel pressure with slight accelration, normal fuel pressure with extreme acceleration, stalling at a stop or trying to stall, running rich to keep it on. The black smoke comes out only after it has stalled. To my understanding this means excess fuel being burned.

The engine light did come on though this morning right before the problems started, and like before no codes are being put out except for the Cruis Control Sensor, but we never reset the computer either, and the cruise control is now bypassed. But the engine light has been off the entire time since the regulator was changed. This was sudden too, not oncoming like the last time, it was running great yesterday and this morning.......
I guess we'll start with the fuel regulator AGAIN!!!! After that we live in FL so we dont need the CAT Converter so we'll just remove it and bypass it and see what happens....
I love this car if I didn't I'd go right now and buy a new one, it's so smooth and roomy and the Dynaride is awesome, LOL.

A) I highly doubt it's a faulty replacement regulator.

B) I don't care what state you live in, you need a catalytic converter on the car. :nono:

One more question, kind of stupid though. When I popped my hood to look at the vac lines near the regulator I noticed my transmission dipstick was pulled out almost the whole way. Would that cause air to get in anywhere it shouldn't be, or am I really stretching it now, LOL.

I know I've heard that from a bunch of people.

But I did do some researching on my little Echlin NAPA fuel regulator and from what I've read, one guys burst, another had the wrong connection piece and a couple of sites say they are the biggest pieces of crap out there, as the old saying goes you get what you pay for.

I think I'm just hoping for it to be the regulator, LOL, less work, no money. We'll see this afternoon when we retry this again. I guess our weekend project is the CAT cause I need my car.

What does the fuel pressure regulator look like and where is it located because i want to test it, I have a 94 lesabre and its doing similar things.

Thanks

What does the fuel pressure regulator look like and where is it located because i want to test it, I have a 94 lesabre and its doing similar things.

Thanks Click Here (http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/17/8f/bc/0900823d80178fbc/repairInfoPages.htm)

I have the same car. Could you please tell me where the EGR is located. It's not in Chilton or Motor. I fugure it's under my nose, but I still can't find it.
TIA
Click Here (http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/15/e4/7d/0900823d8015e47d/repairInfoPages.htm)

We took off the fuel regulator. It has a leaky diphragm inside of it. So we go to replace it at NAPA, and I had just talked ot them, but when we get there they say they haven't had the part and never told me they did. UUUGGGHHHHH!!!! I was so mad. So, I made my fiance have them call every Napa in our county ( 4 ) and none of them have it. So now I'm p/o and driving my fiance's work truck, ha ha that's some fun. He's driving the pos buick around until we fix it. He says he has no problem with it and I make up the issues we have, LOL. That's why at the stop light I had to restart or how about pull over when I was going around a corner because it stalled, or when I back up out of the driveway, or..... I could go on and on.....but anyhow NAPA wont have the part until Saturday at the earliest and guess what they close at noon, so, if they dont get it on Saturday I sit around here and wait until Monday, we'll see keep y'all posted......

So we replaced the faulty fuel pressure regulator and as you all guessed it, that wasn't the problem. We replaced the CAT converter and ha ha, the honeycomb inside the old one was crystal clear and nothing wrong with it. So my grandpa in Pennsylvania, he's a mechanic, said he just purchased one and had to replace the EGR, ground bus and O2 sensor. So today is our O2 sensor replacement. I am so tired of this but my grandpa says htis will fix it, he's almost 100% guranteed.

If the Torque Converter Clutch doesn't release when it's supposed to, it can cause the engine to stall at stops and at idle. You can read more about it here:

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/a/aa061701a.htm

So we replaced the O2 sensor. That was a pain. It came out like crap, ruined the threads. So it sat for 3 days until we made it to our local tool store, and had to buy an 18 mm x 1.5 tap. They mesaure the O2 and said that the 18mm tap was too bug we needed a 17.5 mm. Well we took our chances, bought the tap, worked great, within 5 minutes the new O2 sensor was in, and for about 12 hours now, so far so good. We've driven about 25 miles on it, and it's running good, os fingers crossed and hoping it worked. Thanks a bunch, again!!!!!