brake pads question..

I'm in the midst of replacing the front pads on my 01 lesabre. I believe the current pads are extremely cheap and are eating up the rotors as there is squeaking and rotor wear. They were put in by a real sketchy shop and I'm sure they used the cheapest thing they had.

I went to autozone and got some duralast pads for like 24 bucks or so. The backing plate on these is the same exact shape as the pads that are currently in there (if they weren't they'd obviously be the completely wrong part), but the pad area itself on the new ones is smaller. Is it OK to replace pads with other pads of a smaller surface area?

For that matter, is it OK to replace pads with pads that have a LARGER surface area? For all I know, the ones I bought are correct and larger-area pads that the cheap garage put in were wrong.

The old pads look sort of like this:

http://www.creativekarting.com/Products/Brake%20system/Rear%20Brake%20Pads/images/rear_pad_grn.jpg

And the new duralasts that I got have no line in the middle and the pad material ends about a half inch from each end of the backing plate.

Quick question, do you know if the shop bothered turning your rotors before replacing the pads? If you were metal on metal beforehand and they rotors were not machined or replaced, you'll run into some premature brake problems (possibly that noise you said you hear now)

Good question, I forgot this part of the story. I don't know if they were turned when those pads first went in, but I had them turned since (at the suggestion of a different mechanic who was doing an alignment or something else at the time.) After being turned, they were quiet for a week or so and then the squeaking came back, which is why I'm convinced that the pads are either too cheap or are inappropriate.

And now I'm worried that autozone hasn't given me the right replacement/better pads to put in there.



Quick question, do you know if the shop bothered turning your rotors before replacing the pads? If you were metal on metal beforehand and they rotors were not machined or replaced, you'll run into some premature brake problems (possibly that noise you said you hear now)

Squeak from pads usually comes from the pad to cylinder contact.
Some have a plate, some have a spray, some have a insert of some kind to keep metal to metal from contacting..
Either way its my personal opinion anything is basically disrupting the ability for it to sing.
It may be you can get back into them and pad, plate, or spray a brake quietner on them and it will be good.

Good Luck

I haven't done my brakes for awhile, but I am fairly sure the '97 Lesabre has a thin metal plate that kind of has tangs that spring-locks the plate into place. It goes between the pad and the cylinder. If a brake shop did the brakes, they may have left the plates off on reassembly. Are both sides squeaking or just one side? It is easy to forget and leave the plates off. I have had to pull off the brake assembly again to install the plates after forgetting to put them on.

I would run by another auto parts store and ask them to bring out a box of pads and compare them to what you bought. See what another auto part store has for pads. Do they look like what is on it or what you just bought.
Based on my experience with Autozone, I bet they have the right pads unless they pulled the wrong box.

I have run some cars with discs that are basically shot and they grab and chatter (especially when braking hard), but don't necessarily squeal.

(Who knew brake pad replacement could get so complicated huh?) The old cheap pads and the new replacements both have thin metal shivs riveted onto them which act as separators between the heavier backing plate of the pad and the cylinder. I don't think what's on there has any particular spring-like effect on either, though.

I do think that the squeaking is coming from both sides. I don't know what pad-to-cylinder contact squeaking sounds like exactly, but the kind of squeaking I have sounds a bit like someone scraping their nails across a chalkboard at the speed I'm going while braking. It's not constant, and the wear on the rotors seems like more than I would expect. It's the kind of squeaking you ALWAYS hear on cabs and other such fleet vehicles that no one cares about and everyone beats on.

I am now, unfortunately, still indulging in old bad habits and kind of repairing things impulsively without thinking about them as much as I should, and learning things the hard way. What I'm referring to specifically is how I compressed the caliper so that it could fit the new pads. I just used a big vise. Seemed to work fine, only now the rubber boot around the cylinder is bulging out a bit and I'm concerned that it might get pinched between the cylinder and the pad when I slap it back together. I would absolutely hate having to get a rebuilt caliper just because I did something dumb.

Also, I'm having the problem of getting the damn caliper pin bolts to go back in. They have these rubber sleeve things that go over the end of them and seat inside the caliper pin holes, around the pin part of the pin bolts. And they are not enjoying being shoved back in at all. I probably just have to push harder.

(Thought I was a hotshot because I replaced all the calipers on my other car and bled them by myself, but nooo...)

Brakes are brakes, don't let 'em get to you. The dust boot on caliper (assuming the front) may buldge if the piston is seated too quickly or unevenly.

I prefer to take the old outter brake pad and flip it over to use as a level pushing surface.

Also, don't forget, you need to open the master cylinder cover during all this. Also, some ABS system require the bleeder screw to be open during recess, all depends.

On the locating bolts, I put a swipe of anti-seize on em and they usually cooperate but they can be a PITA sometimes for sure. You just need to make sure you don't crossthread the receiving holes on the bracket, then you're in trouble.

Hope that helps.

the wear on the rotors seems like more than I would expect.
It may be too late to mention this, but you should never compress the calipers without opening the bleed screw! If you do not open the bleed screw, you will push the old contaminated fluid back into the master cylinder and ABS system. With all that crap in the master cylinder, it is just a matter of time when a failure will occur. If your pads or rotors are wearing out too quick, you may have “binding calipers”, or the calipers were not floating on the pins as they once did. As WrigthZ28 pointed out, they need a lubricant that will allow them to float and would not harm the rubber “O-rings” inside the caliper. You can purchase lubricant especially formulated for the caliper pins at any parts store. Rebuilt calipers are cheap and if there is any question in your mind that they yours may be compromised, replace them! Never skimp when replacing brake parts and stay away from "China Parts"! They may work ok on a 2400# ricer, but not on Buick's! :shakehead

You don't mention the mileage on your 2001 but my opinion is if the rotors were gouged by wear from pads run too low, or if they have pits in them from whatever it is that causes open pitting (salt?), or if it's second pad change or 70K mi, and you're having concern with caliper parts and operation--


put on new quality rotors (Raybestos best grade-not the China price competitive $15 version), reman calipers, and ceramic pads for dust free operation --or exact original equipment pads, not long life etc.

You'll have brakes just like new cars for a long time. Spending a little more now saves money in replacements and trouble you'd fight later.

Just a general note while we are on the subject:

Tires should be rotated about once every 3,000 miles or 4 months. As a means of some good PM (prevantive mainanence) while the tires are off, do some poking around folks.

Look at all the visible components:

Steering & suspension links - grease buldging out from the boots is a sign they're in need of attention. Most are non greasable these days meaning a R & R is in order.

Shocks & struts - should be "clean" and dry. There should not be any grease/oils visable on the shock body/piston, if there is, clean it up and monitor the situation for return a replacement may be in order.

Brakes - presence of excessive dust, a blueish tint to the frotors/drums, and pad/shoe life. AND, now is the time to note the condition of the slide bolts, if they are dry and dirty, they obviously arent' working well. Also, lines and hoses, a dry brittle looking hose on th eoutside is definatley a problem.

For the giggle of it sometime, when you have the front tire off, and vehicle properly secured on a stand :eek: have an assistant depress the brake pedal and watch how th ecaliper moves, yes, the whole assembly is supposed to move (slide).

Thanks all for your excellent advice. The pads are now in and there doesn't seem to be any problem. "Brakes are brakes, don't let 'em get to you." Words to live by, wrightz...

My next task will be to flush the old fluid out before I put very many miles on the car, because it was indeed too late, and I did compress them without opening the bleeders, forcing bad fluid back up the line. I don't think what was in there could be in the best shape in the first place, since what's in the reservoir looks pretty dirty as well.

I did compress the other cylinder with the old pad as a leveler, but still got the bulging of the dust boot. I'm almost certain that it is not getting pinched, though, and will check on this when I go to replace that fluid.

There was one small issue with one of the pin bolts on the passenger side. In the first place, I had to take the entire caliper and bracket off and rattle these bolts open because I couldn't fit any bar on them in that wheel well that could give me sufficient torque, and they seemed more stuck than the driver's side. They rattled off fine of course, but one of the rubber sheathe washer things that surrounds the end of the pin and supports it as it sits inside the bracket kind of broke its end off, so what started as a 1"-ish sheathe is now a 0.75" sheathe and a 0.25" sheathe. I figured it could still do its job and threw it back together for now with the two parts to the sheathe just sharing the job, but if this type of washer/sheathe is easy to find, I'll obviously just replace it very soon, like the brake fluid... I find it very annoying that the car even has those rubber things, the re-insertion of which was the biggest PITA of the whole job.

Anyhow, thanks again everyone.

The guide pin sleeves come iwth new pins and I think they run about 8 bucks total for both sides from Brakeware. A small investment well spent.

Were you trying to the job with the wheels pointed straight?

Oh, and for the record, I 'll say this, I once had to do my wife's brakes on her Lesabre, get in the shower and get dressed for a wedding with one hour on the clock. !0 minutes a side, done. After that I thought all brake jobe would be a sinch. :nono:

My new neighbor asked if I could help him out with brakes on his Honda. That was reason to drink. Those jokers use 2 danty little 10mm bolts to "locate" the front rotor like we used to use on drum brakes to prevent chatter. Needless to say, no need for a wrench to do the job, except to start. After that, it's put the wrench down and grab the drill, and a beer.

Oh man, turn the wheel.... jeez. :shakehead How embarassing that I'd forget that. Hahahah.

Good job on the brakes and wedding, that's fast. Guess I'll pick up some guide pins then.



Were you trying to the job with the wheels pointed straight?

Oh, and for the record, I 'll say this, I once had to do my wife's brakes on her Lesabre, get in the shower and get dressed for a wedding with one hour on the clock. !0 minutes a side, done. After that I thought all brake jobe would be a sinch. :nono: