Anyone install a remote starter in their Montana?

I'm looking through the directions on the remote starter kit I bought, and it's telling me that since my van has passkey3, I have to buy another $25 module to bypass the security system.

Anyone care to comment on this?

They are also trying to see additional keys, but I'm not clear on what that's all about.

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/diagram.asp?ModelID=14969&MakeID=35&link=BULLDOG

We put one in my wife's 2000 montana a few years ago. I can't remember if we had to put an extra key in the module, or buy a seperate unit. I do remember we could not find the white tach wire. I will ask my brother-in law who helped me put it in what we did,and get back to you. I will say that I am not a big fan of remote starters. They are not very reliable and can cause other problems if the module fails. I guess you get what you pay for. What do you expect for 60 bucks?

Six years ago, I had one installed in our '97 Venture...BIG MISTAKE! Ever since then there have been more electrical problems than I can count. Things started to not work that previously had no problems, then all of a sudden decided to start working again. To make matters worse, the company that installed it went bankrupt and closed. This was unforeseen as they had been in business since the 1920's and had a solid reputation in the community. In talking with friends who also had a remote starter installed in their vehicles, they too experienced some degree of problems right after it was installed. In our owners manual it states that GM does not recommend the installation of remote starter in their vehicles. I guess so many people have disregarded that over the years, and the dealers have been fixing so many problems relating to these installations , that GM is now offering their own remote starter on new vehicles. I couldn't begin to tell you how many vehicles our shop had worked on in the 1990's with problems related to the installation of remote starters. The earlier versions were so problem plagued, and I swore to myself to never put one on any of my vehicles. Well that changed after my wife kept asking for one for years, and years, and I finally broke down and got her one as a Christmas present...worst $349.95 I ever spent!

damn, with the passkey issues and all the other crap, I'm not going to bother putting it in the Montana. It's our family vehicle, and I can't afford to have any downtime with this van.

""Ever since then there have been more electrical problems than I can count. Things started to not work that previously had no problems, then all of a sudden decided to start working again.""

I installed one back in October in my 98TSP and has been working like a charm since.

Here's something I did notice tho...

I just bought the van in October and was starting to notice when I started the van she kinda hesitated on start up... sort of a waa waa varooom.

When I started the remote starter & starter kill install I noticed after removing bottom dash cover exposing the steering colume wire harness that all the wires I was about to start working on already has a spot with black electrical tape on them hmmm.... meaning.. It's looks like this van already had a previously installed & then removed remote starter.

Here's what I found after removing the black electrical tape...

Whoever had did the previous work had taken the big 12 gauge ignition wires and had seperated the strands (which consisted of 8 or 10 smaller 20/22 gauge wires wrapped together) and then soldered onto only two of the strands !!?

Resulting in a very bad connections. which were obviously producing alot of heat as all the plastic sheilding was melted and everything was burnt black !

I removed all that crap, re did it all with solid T connectors made from solid solder, then heat shrink wrap.

The van fires right up now... More like a VaRooom !

As a side note... I can't see how a remote starter could mess up the electrical system... afterall all it's doing is closing a open circut for a second or two !? Like you do when you turn the key to start !

(a little late for a edit, iknow, i know) But I should have said... " All it dose is fire a relay that closes a open circut for a second or two. " :)

Cheer's

As a side note... I can't see how a remote starter could mess up the electrical system... afterall all it's doing is closing a open circut for a second or two !? Like you do when you turn the key to start !

Cheer's

Uuhhh, I think you answered the question. I would have to guess that 99% of people and about 75% of installers don't understand the significance of proper wire termination. Sure you can twist the wire on and it will "work", but like you said, once you fixed it, VRROOOM. Makes me wonder if '97ventureowner did the proper wire terminations (i.e. solder it baby!!).

I had a remote starter installed on a 94 Cutlass I had years ago . Murphys law kicked in the day we sold it. The car wouldn't start on the first try (I mean nuthin!). Waited a while, and it no problem. I would have to guess the issue was wiring or something to do with the security system.

Anyway, '97ventureowner's comment reminded me of that fiasco, and thus helped me decide to say "forget it"

I did check at the installation and the wires were soldered. All the technicians that installed the systems had schooling in proper installation techniques, and their certifications were posted in the showroom. At the garage I worked at during the '90s we saw a lot of vehicles come in with problems that occured after the installation of a remote start system. Some of the systems sold back then were crap, and those companies are no longer in business. I remember talking to some friends who were service managers at various dealerships in the area and they all said that modern electrical systems are so complex and technical, and one wrong move can screw up a bunch of things. That is why GM didn't recommend aftermarket installations of these systems. They recounted how many times customers brought their vehicles in with problems which were traced back to the remote start systems, and there wasn't much the dealer could do but fix the problems and charge the customer.

Ya a faulty remote starter would be a bummer.

Mine is a Auto Start AS1200. (don't know if that's good or bad !?)

A buddy of mine gave it to me when he bought a new one. I had it in my ol' 92 voyager for 5 or 6 years, now it's in my 98TSP and still going strong...

Knock on wood !

Cheer's

Woscarr, Grumpy5
I got a used AS1200 remote starter which I am preparing to install in our Transport Montana 1998. How did you guys pass your hood switch wire to the engine compartment? Also where did you connect your Tach wire?

Thanks!

Woscarr, Grumpy5
I got a used AS1200 remote starter which I am preparing to install in our Transport Montana 1998. How did you guys pass your hood switch wire to the engine compartment? Also where did you connect your Tach wire?

Thanks!


I got the wires through where the main harness goes through, under dash left of brake peddle. There's a rubber plug that wraps around the harness that is somewhat a pain in the butt to remove. Then I used a peice of 12 gauge copper (about 10 or 15 inches) wire. I taped the two wires that needed to go into the engine conpartment and poked them through.

I got the tach wire off the big wire harness that runs over the engine and across the top of the radiator. It was the white wire, although I can't remember now if it had a blue stripe or not. I used a multi meter, rev the engine and watch voltage... voltage will rise when reving the engine.

Cheer's
Wayne

Thanks Woscarr for the quick reply!

I just realized that I will have to install a relay because there are two ignition wires; I think the connection should be: ignition one (pink) on relay post 85, ignition two (white) on post 30, 12V on post 87, ground-out of the remote starter on post 86.

For the remote start functionality did you have to install other relays?

Thanks again!

I didn't use any relay's in my installation. I don't use it to open the door's, use the GM one for that.

I connected both constant 12volt lines to the same sorce.

I have the pdf manual for the as1200 if you need it.

Wayne

Interesting. Did you simply ignore the second ignition wire? The Autostart recommended wiring diagram for the Transport (see below) mentions two ignition wire and a note about the need for a "Second Ignition Relay". This is why I assumed the need for a relay to take care of the second Ignition wire.

As for the two 12V wires, the AS1200 install guide (AS-1200_ig_en_h100s100v201_010809.pdf) indicates at the bottom of the Harness Description page: "When there are two constant 12-volt wires at ignition switch wires A and E must be separated each to their own 12 volts source." I thus assumed that I would need to connect the Red wire to post A and the Red/White wire to post E. I think one is fused at 60amps and the other at 40amps.

Here is the wiring info I got from Autostart support. It may look misleading since in 1998 I am pretty sure that the Transport didn't have a transpoder; however, the wiring looks the same as as on www.bulldogsecurity.com and www.the12volt.com):


Manufacturer / Manufacturier Pontiac
Model / Modèle Montana
Years / Année 1998

3743


FUNCTION DATA/COLOR LOCATION POLARITY
+12 Volts Red Ignition Harness +
Ignition Pink Ignition Harness +
Ignition 2 Pink/white or White Ignition Harness +
Accessory Orange Ignition Harness +
Starter Yellow Ignition Harness +
Starter 2 N/A N/A N/A
Tachometer White In Harness Passenger Side Of Engine AC
Lock Light Blue Driver's Door Jam Boot -
Unlock White Driver's Door Jam Boot -
Doorpin See Notes** At Bcm*** -
Arm Red/Black Driver's Door Jam Boot -
Disarm Orange/Black Above Fusebox -
Brakeswitch White At Connector Near Driver's Kick Panel +
Parking Lights Brown At Connector Near Driver's Kick Panel +
Trunk Release N/A N/A N/A

.......
Comment
* Vehicle is equipped with PK3 transponder anti-theft system and OEM alarm.
**door pins separated see diagram.
***The bcm is located on passenger side underdash.
****To wires to open sliding doors and hatch can be found in pass kick panel on 2001 model and drivers kick on 2000 models. The wire colors on both moidels are as follows:
Tan (-) Opens drivers side sliding door
Blue (-) Opens the hatch
Orange (-) Opens the pass sliding door.
*****Alternate Sliding door: Dark Blue (-) top of
passenger side B pillar between drivers door and
the sliding door. behind the head liner, and plastic
trim at the top.
.................................................. .....
DIAGRAM AND EXTRA TIME REQUIRED:

Second Ignition Relay 15
Default_negative_doorlock 30
Default_door_pin_isolation 30
Default_transponder_bypass 30
---------
Thanks,
Paul.

Wayne,
Thanks again for your help. I installed the as-1200 and it works fine. The only issue is that if the car is "locked" using the GM remote, then the alarm is triggered when I remote start the car (it will remote start even with the alarm on). Thus I need to (remote) unlock it first before remote starting it. Do you have the same issue? (I have a Transport Montana 1998).

I will try installing a relay on the second "white" ignition wire (as described in previous post) to see if this will cure the issue. However, I do have a doubt that this will work since I just observed that there are three ignition wires! (third one is brown).

Looking at the as1200 manual it says...

pin 14 and 15 in the 4 pin harness (inserted as necessary) are for Rearm & Disarm.

14 OPEN Rearm (-) Gives a 1 second pulse 4 seconds after remote
starter shut down

15 OPEN Disarm (-) Provides a negative pulse 4 seconds after starting
by remote and can be programmed to give a
pulse upon activation of remote starter (disarm).

I would think you would use these for arming and disarming the alarm.

I have a starter kill relay hooked up in line with my remote starter. The pulse to disable it comes from the parklights circut, so when they flash when pressing the button it turns off the stater kill relay.

Also... My van dose not come with factory alarm that I know of.

Looking at your post above I see...

Arm Red/Black Driver's Door Jam Boot -
Disarm Orange/Black Above Fusebox -

Now as long as these work on -12v pulse your rockin', hook upto pin 14 & 15. If not -12v pulse then you will need 2 relays.


Good Luck
Wayne

Wayne,
I was rechecking the ignition harness wiring color code from AutoStart against some free wiring web sites, and some sites say that ACCESSORY is the BROWN wire, as opposed to ORANGE (I used the ORANGE). These sites say that the ORANGE is for the HVAC. Did you use the ORANGE or BROWN wire for the ACCESSORY pin on your AS-1200? DO you think that this could be the cause of my problem?

Thanks.

http://www.alertautomotive.com/diagrams/diagrams.asp
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/vehicles.asp

and I noticed that on some (free) wiring diagram sites

Here's what I followed... (found at gm site)
Pretty sure I'm connected to the Red. (sorry edited this a few times, but now I'm positive it was Red)


Constant 12 volts RED & RED/WHITE IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS *
Ignition 12 volts PINK IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS
Starter YELLOW IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS
Dome Light GRAY/BLACK (-) AT BULK HEAD CONN.UNDER DRIVERS DASH
Trunk Pin Switch GRAY/BLACK (-) SAME AS DOME LIGHT WIRE ABOVE
Parking Lamp BROWN (+) AT HEADLIGHT SWITCH ***
Power Lock L BLUE 10 PIN CONNECTOR IN
Power Unlock WHITE DRIVER KICK PANEL

* Separate Circuits - RED Fused At 60 And RED/WHITE Fused At 40 Amps. ** Alternate Door Trigger Circuit: TAN (Dr), D BLUE (Ps Front And Liftgate) And ORANGE (Sliding Door) (-) At Body Control Module Below Passenger Dash. Diode Isolation Needed, Cathode (Band) Side Of Diode Faces OEM Wires. *** BROWN (+) Wire Also Located In 56 Pin Conn. Near Driver Kick Panel.
Negative Pulse Door Locks

Accessories

Window Up D\ D BLUE P\ L BLUE @ MAIN SWITCH
Window Down R/ BROWN S/ TAN
Ign Key Warn L GREEN (-) 48 PIN CONN. AT BASE OF STEERING COL.
Trunk Release N/A
OEM Horn BLACK (-) STEERING COLUMN HARNESS
Headlights YELLOW (+) AT HEADLIGHT SWITCH *
OEM Alarm Arm RED/BLACK (-)
OEM Alarm Disarm ORANGE/BLACK (-) IN DRIVERS KICK PANEL

Reversal Rest At Ground Power Window Circuit Diagram.
* YELLOW (+) Wire Also Located In 48 Pin Black Connector At Base Of Steering Column. ** OEM Alarm Arms By Locking Doors Thru OEM Keyless Entry Transmitter Or By Locking Doors Using Inside Door Lock Switch While Driver Door Is Open.

Remote Start
Tach Signal WHITE AT POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE *
Ignition #2 ORANGE IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS (HEAT/AC)
Ignition #3 WHITE IGN. SW. HARN. (INSTRUMENT CLUSTER)
Accessory BROWN IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS
Neutral Safety NOT GROUNDING TYPE - OEM SWITCH OPENS STARTER CIRCUIT
Brake Light WHITE (+) AT SWITCH ABOVE BRAKE PEDAL
Reverse Light L GREEN (+) 56 PIN CONN. TO LEFT OF STEER. COL.
Rear Window Defrost N/A TIMER BUILT INTO SWITCH

* Powertrain Control Module Located On Driver Front Of Engine In Air Cleaner Housing.
Immobilizer Bypass



AS1200 (installation manual)

HARNESS DESCRIPTION

7-PIN HARNESS

1 BLACK Chassis Ground Ground to vehicles chassis.
2 VIOLET Tach Input (Coil -) Connect to vehicle's tach wire (coil -)
3 GRAY Hood Switch Hood switch - grounded when hood open
4 EMPTY Glow plug input(+) Connect to wait to start light on diesel vehicles.
5 ORANGE Brake switch To brake switch wire with +12 volt when brake pressed
6 RED Valet switch Depends on model. (See wiring Schematic.)
7 YELLOW Parking light output Connect to the vehicles parking light wire that is +12 volts when the parking light switch is ON.

4 PIN HARNESS
PIN # COLOR POLARITY DESCRIPTION (Connect to...)

8 BROWN Lock (-) Gives a negative pulse when locking by remote. For pulse duration see MODE 1 FUNCTION 3
9 GREEN Unlock (-) Gives a negative pulse when unlocking. For pulse duration see MODE 1 FUNCTION 3
10 BLUE Channel 3 (Trunk-Out) Auxiliary channel negative output (gives a 1 second pulse when buttons # 1 and 2 are pressed simultaneously)
11 WHITE Starter kill out (-) Armed output for starter kill option - see installation diagram

4 PIN HARNESS (wires must be inserted as necessary)

12 OPEN External Trigger Control or NEGATIVE VALET (AS-1202) Used to trigger remote starter from an external receiver's output (option must be programmed)
13 OPEN Ground-out Negative output when running "GROUNDOUT"
14 OPEN Rearm (-) Gives a 1 second pulse 4 seconds after remote starter shut down
15 OPEN Disarm (-) Provides a negative pulse 4 seconds after starting by remote and can be programmed to give a pulse upon activation of remote starter (disarm).

5 PIN HARNESS
PIN # COLOR POLARITY DESCRIPTION (Connect to...)

A RED +12V Battery Constant 12 volts *
B YELLOW Ignition Ignition - 12 volts during "RUN" and "START"
C VIOLET Crank Starter - 12 volts during “START” only
D ORANGE Accessories Accessories - 12 volts during "ACC" only
E RED +12V Battery Constant 12 volts *

• NOTE: Constant 12 volts wires must be connected to heaviest gauge 12 volt wires at ignition switch. When there are two constant 12 volt wires at ignition switch wires A and E must be separated (each to their own 12 volts source). When there is only one
12 volt source at ignition switch then and only then can they be connected together

After looking over this again has got me thinking.

Let me explain first.

When I did the hookup on mine, I connected both 12v constant's to the same source right.. Not necessarily the best method and because I connected both to the Red (primary 12v ignition constant) i don't have the option of heater or a/c operation during remote start... not good at all eh !

Well I had planned on revisiting it again at a later time. So since I have the next couple days off work I think I'll have another go at it again tomorrow...

And connect one of those 12v constants to the Orange heater/a/c.

Also after having another look at those spec's I posted above...

You should be able to control the alarm through the door lock function (forgive me if you already mentioned this and I'm just catching up) on the remote, as it states door locks function by 'negative pulse' as with the as1200 so no relays needed.

Thanks Wayne, this is much more than I expected! I will start be rewiring the ACCESSORY wire to the BROWN wire on the ignition harness (instead of the ORANGE).

By the way, how did you get the wiring info from the GM site?

Wayne,
Sorry, but can you clarify your suggestions (I am really a newbie...):
"And connect one of those 12v constants to the Orange heater/a/c."

are you suggesting that I connect either the AS1200 pin A or E to the orange wire of the ignition harness?

and you say:

"You should be able to control the alarm through the door lock function ... on the remote, as it states door locks function by 'negative pulse' as with the as1200 so no relays needed."

in other words, that I connect the AS1200 pin 9 to the "Power Unlock WHITE DRIVER KICK PANEL" Pontiac wire? so that I can unlock the car using the Autostart remote button I?

Thanks!

Wayne,
Sorry, but can you clarify your suggestions (I am really a newbie...):
"And connect one of those 12v constants to the Orange heater/a/c."

are you suggesting that I connect either the AS1200 pin A or E to the orange wire of the ignition harness?

and you say:

"You should be able to control the alarm through the door lock function ... on the remote, as it states door locks function by 'negative pulse' as with the as1200 so no relays needed."

in other words, that I connect the AS1200 pin 9 to the "Power Unlock WHITE DRIVER KICK PANEL" Pontiac wire? so that I can unlock the car using the Autostart remote button I?

Thanks!


First:

I'm not a 100% sure on that... I plan on having another look under the dash to see how I connected mine. I had a piece of paper with it written down (color of wires connected together as1200 to 98tsp) but I can't seem to find it now, so I'm gonna have to go and look at it.

I want to get the accessory function working on mine too
.

Second:

According to the info I posted above... It should work through the door locks...

But... That kinda doesn't make sense to me... Why would want the door's to unlock when remote starting the van !? Say your at the mall or something... You remote start... Now the van sits in the parking lot with the door's unlocked ! Something not adding up here is it.

If I find out anymore info that might help I'll post it here.

Sorry about last night... I was replying back and then it wouldn't let me. Unfortunately I'm on 56k and it can be iffy at times.

Wayne

Thanks,

Regarding the ACCESSORY pin, I am confused, Autostart says:
"ORANGE Accessories Accessories - 12 volts during "ACC" only"

Is this a mistake? should it say instead that 12V is supplied during ACC and RUN? If not, I don't really understand the use of this pin. If I am right, then it would make sense to connect the ORANGE wire from the ignition harness to this pin in order to get the HVAC working. Confirming this is the wiring diagram of the last page of the Autostart Install guide labels pin D (Orange) as "Accessories (HEATER)". Hence, I think my installation is ok (ORANGE wire from the ignition harness to pin D).

-------
About the GM alarm, I found this while perusing the www.the12volt.com forums:

http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?TID=8044&KW=montana++remote+starter


"To disarm the factory alarm without unlocking the doors, use a 0.8 second pulse on the unlock wire."

This sounds promising. I will continue doing some research.



P.S.:How did you get the wiring info from the GM site?

I thought I found it searching through https://www.mygmlink.com

But I can't seem to find it now ?

I'll look some more later.

relative to the multiple ignition wires issue I found this at:
http://www.drdetailshop.com/STARTINSTALL.html

"Second Ignition wire
Some vehicles have more than one ignition wire; all ignition wires should be connected when installing a remote starter. Use relays for connecting additional ignition wires. This Second ignition wires must be connected to an additional relay and
can not be tied in with the original ignition wire. Just connect the new relay using the first ignition relay negative trigger wire and connect the B+ to a known good 12V source."

I am concerned that I should connect the other ignition wire (WHITE) from the ignition harness, however, I didn't notice anything wrong when remote starting the car and then driving it...I will investigate this further.

-----------
Relative to the two 12 volt constant wires I found this at:
http://www.drdetailshop.com/STARTINSTALL.html

"If your remote car starter has 2 power wires you can connect 1 power wire to each of the vehicles power wires. Determine which one is used to supply the accessory output and connect that wire to the power wire that can handle the higher load."

The red one is fused at 60amps, while the red/white is fused at 40amps. Any idea on determining which one is used to supply the accessory output?

--------

Relative to cranking did you notice that the AS-1200 overcranks a bit, i.e., by about 1-2 second after motor starts? I hope this is ok.

""Relative to cranking did you notice that the AS-1200 overcranks a bit, i.e., by about 1-2 second after motor starts? I hope this is ok.""

Yes I do notice this also.

Looking at the as1200 install manual...

It says, by default crank time is 8 seconds.

But there is a 6 second option in the CUSTOM PROGRAMMING OPTIONS.

I gonna have to try this sometime.

I solved my alarm issue. Details are on
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?TID=70381&TPN=2&get=last

----
I also posted the question about powering up or not the second ignition wire on the above forum.

--
I sent an email to Autostart support asking about which pin (A or E) to connect to which ignition harness wire (Red-60amps or the Red/White-40amps))

---
Here is the summary of all my connections. The Pontiac Transport 1998 ignition harness has the following wires: two 12V, one Starter wire, three Ignition wires and one Accessory wire (as per the GM specs from woscarr), connected as follows:
-12 volts, Red (fused at 60 amps): connected to 12V constant of the remote starter
-12 volts, Red/White (fused at 40 amps): connected to other 12V constant of the remote starter
-Starter, Yellow: connected to STARTER pin of the remote starter
-Ignition 1, Pink: connected to the IGNITION pin of the remote starter
-Ignition 2 (HVAC), Orange: connected to the ACCESSORY pin of the remote starter
-Ignition 3 (INSTRUMENT CLUSTER), White: not connected
-Accessory, Brown: not connected

Finally I also connected:
-remote starter tach pin: connected to Pontiac white wire in big harness front of engine on top of radiator
-remote starter brake pin: connected to Pontiac white wire on brake switch (over the brake pedal)
-remote starter parking light pin: connected to Pontiac brown wire on headlight switch
-remote starter unlock pin: connected to Pontiac ORANGE/BLACK wire in driver kick panel.

I also installed a hood pin and a valet switch and use all default settings in the remote stater except I enabled the "Secure Lock" function (in order to disarm without unlocking prior to remote start).

reading about the crank time, the default of 8 second seems like a maximum crank time per try, i.e., cranking is stopped when a tach is detected, if read the following correctly:

"Tach Watch lockout is a safety feature built into the
remote starter to protect the vehicle’s starter motor.
If, during remote start, the vehicle’s engine ever
cranks the entire programmed crank time without
detecting any Tach pulses during the first crank
cycle, the unit will go into Tach watch lockout. The
diagnostics for this is 3 quick Parking lights flashes
when trying to remote start the vehicle."

So I think reducing the (maximum) crank time to 6 seconds might not help. I will send the question to AutoStart support.

I got this info from the very friendly and helpful AutoStart support technician:
1-About the slight overcranking, they said that we need to fine-tune the Tach signal as described in the Tach Adjustement section of the installation guide.
2-about the second GM ignition wire (WHITE), this has to be powered since it is used for things like the radiator fan (if I understood him correctly), and if not powered the car computer will generate error "codes" that the mechanics will observe next time they plug into the car.
3-about the second GM Accessory wire (Brown), this is optional, however, if it is not powered, again the computer will most likely generate some error codes also.
4-regarding connection of the GM red 12V (60amps) to the AS1200 pin A or E and the GM red/white 12V (40amps) to AS1200 pin A or E, the technician confirmed that there it is preferable to put the high amp wire on one particular pin but he didn't have the info readily available and said that he thinks either way the system should work fine.

Just a final note:

I re-wired my to the above posted spec's (sperated the two 12v constants and connected the ACC for HVAC).

Now everything is working as it should.

Cheer's
Wayne