Steering--won't go back to center

'92 XJ. I've had some play in the steering gearbox for a while. I had the shop tell me the gearbox needed to be replaced, and that it was nothing urgent. After some research, I discovered you can tighten up the gears. On top of the box (remove auxiliary fan to get at it), there's a lock nut. Loosen that and use an allen wrench to turn the screw and tighten it down, being careful not to tighten too much. Too tight will cause binding. Anyway, I tightened it up, but then now the steering doesn't naturally go back to center while driving. Going down the road, it's much more responsive, but if you turn it a tad to the left, it stays left; tad to the right, and it stays right...and holding center, it will stay center. This makes for kind of a forced driving feel, as you know, the steering (when working properly) tends to re-center itself. Any ideas why this would be happening? I don't think it's an alignment problem, but one never knows.

Now, to be fair, it did this also before the adjustment, but I thought that was just due to it being loose (kind of wandered then). I did go back and loosing it a bit, thinking maybe I had overdone it, but alas, it's still the same. Note, I checked the power steering fluid level, and it's fill to capacity, beyond the "hot" mark even when cold. Don't know if that has anything to do with it?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I had the same symptoms as you describe on my 94 XJ and it turned out to be the ball joints were binding. To check for this lift up the front and disconnect the tie rod from the steering knuckle. Now grab the tire and try to "steer" it full left and full right. It should go easily. Mine was very hard to move.

It really was a pain driving it when it was like that, and after it was fixed it took me a couple of days to get used to it. I kept over correcting the steering wheel out of habit!

Agree it could be the ball joints.

How often do you grease the ones that are greaseable? Not sure which ones are on yours, my jgc has only the top ones with the zerk.

Good suggestion for checking the resistance by disconnecting the tie rod ends...........

There are other causes too but check this out first.

JD

Mr C....

In your case, the expression "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" applies. Rather than dwell on the mistake, lets try to fix it. Your ball joints are probably okay but based on what you've done to to the "box" I doubt seriously replacing them will fix your problem. Think about it, everything was fine (except for some steering slop) before you "tweaked" the box. Also, since adjusting the steering box correctly involves removing it from the vehicle and the work is all labor, I doubt seriously you'll find any shop willing do this for you (or be able to make the correct adjustments). As you have found, they will sell you a "new" steering box and get the parts mark up plus labor out of you (read "expensive"). I have made these adjustments on both my '98 GMC Sierra (which had a lot of slop) and my '00 Cherokee (which was just beginning to show some freeplay)... the results, IMHO, are well worth the effort. You may also run across some folks telling you the adjustments can be made without removing the box; on older vehicles (like late 50's early 60's) you could do this. With newer cars this isn't so.

You have two choices: 1) If you're a pretty good backyard mechanic you *can* do the needed work to make the correct adjustments to your exisiting steering box and remove the slop; 2) If you don't want to be bothered with the adjustments, you can get a new, rebuilt or salvage steering box to replace the one on your XJ (and take your chances its been adjusted correctly). Since 90% of the procedure for either choice is the same, I vote you learn the correct way to make the adjustment and save yourself some dough. The third option, sort of, is to redo the overcenter feel adjustment (the screw you messed with atop the steering box) and put it back to the position it was in previously. If left too tight, an incorrect overcenter adjustment will cause excessive wear on the internals of your box and casue the steering not to return to center.

There are three "phases" to this project: 1) removing the box from your Jeep; 2) adjusting the box; 3) reinstalling the box and refilling and bleeding your power steering system. You will need a couple of "special" tools: a pitman arm puller and tie rod end puller of the appropriate sizes. You will need a set of large needle nose pliers that are bent at 90 deg. and whose jaws will open 2-3 inches (in lieu of the "special" spanner wrench the job calls for). You will need a socket to fit the pitman arm nut on the steering box (it's big) and a cheater bar ('cause it's torqued down pretty tight). Check with your local auto parts store as many now loan tools free with a credit card imprint. While you're there you should be able to score the socket and pliers; if the pullers are loaners, you ought to be able to walk out of the store with a $25 lighter wallet. If you don't have one already, this would be a perfect excuse to buy a factory shop manual for your XJ. These MOPAR manuals are soooo much better than the Chiltons/Haynes books.... and the correct procedure, step by step, for adjusting the steering box is in there. Try eBay or these guys:

(www.factoryautomanuals.com)

To get an idea of what you'd be doing, take a gander at your steering box. Look at where the steering intermediate shaft (the shaft coming from the steering wheel) enters the steering box; you'll see there is a big, thin lock nut. Look closer and you'll see there is an internal nut with some small holes in it. What your looking at is the worm preload adjuster; this is the adjustment that will remove the slack in the GM/Saginaw steering box. Once the box is out of the car and securely mounted in a vise, the lock nut is removed (using a brass drift and hammer). The internal adjuster nut is then torqued in snug (using the special spanner or the bent needle noses), a reference matchmark is made across the case and adjuster. Another mark is made CCW and 1/2" back from the first case mark and the adjuster is loosened to line up with that mark. The lock nut is reinstalled. Once that is done, the overcenter preload is adjusted (the screw on top of the box). The overcenter adjustment is based on the resistance created as you rotate the steering shaft stub back and forth through the "straigh ahead" position of the box; resistance is measured using an In-Lb torque wrench attached to the stub. You are looking for a very minor increase in torque as you swing the wrench through the straight ahead position. It is a very minor increase in resistance but you can do this by feel (you don't need the In-Lb torque wrench). These adjustments will take some time and may have to be finessed a bit (as in, don't settle for the first adjustment you make). When you get it right, your Jeep steering will feel like it is brand new.... maybe even better.

This is not to say your ball joints haven't gone bad and maybe they are worn, but your symptoms are a classic result of wrenching down the overcenter adjuster. I would try the steering box adjustment first.

Mike

Outstanding! This forum rocks. Thanks for the replies, and Mike, I'll take a serious look at that method. So if I read your response correctly, you snug down the internal adjuster nut, then back it off 1/2", and then secure with the lock nut, and move to the overcenter preload to look for the sweet spot...but an increase in torque?

I'm still looking for the factory manual, but haven't been able to find one. I tried the link, but it kind of crashed before I could get done looking.

What I gave you was an abbreviated version of what needs to be done. Please don't get the impression you can do this without pulling the steering box. Before tackling this, *get the factory service manual*; it will take you step by step. I would have to look in my XJ manual to be sure about the 1/2" set back marking but I'm pretty sure that's the spec. I also have the adjustment procedure in my Chiltons S10 manual.... which is really surprising. If you can lay hands on one of the Chiltons S10 books (the larger book, not the small one), it should have the adjustment procedure. In fact the removal procedure is pretty much the same for both vehicles. This is a good weekend project; you'll use most of Saturday pulling, adjusting and reinstalling. The overnight part comes from servicing the power steering system since you will drain just about all the fluid to do this job. Once the box is removed you'll need to drain as much fluid from it as possible. When reinstallation is complete, there will be a *lot* of air in the system which will require an overnight "rest" to fully purge.

The overcenter adjustment, when adjusted correctly, will cause a very slight increase in torque as the stub shaft is rotated through the straight ahead position. The correct overcenter adjustment will create a very slight resistance from 45-30 degrees of stub shaft rotation either side of straight ahead. The increased resistance causes you to apply slightly more torque to rotate the stub shaft; hence the increase in torque reading..... and this is measured in Inch-Pounds *NOT* Foot-Pounds (12 in/lbs = 1 ft/lb).

mike

From your first post you said:

Now, to be fair, it did this also before the adjustment, but I thought that was just due to it being loose (kind of wandered then). I did go back and loosing it a bit, thinking maybe I had overdone it, but alas, it's still the same.

I took that to mean that because it was not returning before the O/C adjustment was done, that there must be some cause outside of the steering box.

Did the steering box adjustment make the problem worse than before or not change it at all???

How much did you turn the adjuster screw to tighten the steering box???

How much did you turn it back to loowen it off again??................


Like I said before, there are several possible causes for this and all may be contributing to the problem.

You have to start some where - do the easiest and basic things first then the harder things........

try this link for manual information.....:smile:

http://www.lunghd.com/Downloads_and_Links/Downloads.htm


JD

I came across a bona-fide Jeep manual on Ebay last night. Put a bid on it. We'll see. I took a closer look at the gear box tonight and saw the locking ring and ring with small holes in it, so I get idea of what has to be done. Definitely need to remove it. Thanks for the tips on bleeding the system.

JD, I cannot really tell if tightening it made it worse necessarily, but since I had high expectations for a fix, I noticed more of the non-centering. I tightened it about 3/4 to 1 turn, and then backed it off about 1/2 turn.

I came across a bona-fide Jeep manual on Ebay last night. Put a bid on it. We'll see. I took a closer look at the gear box tonight and saw the locking ring and ring with small holes in it, so I get idea of what has to be done. Definitely need to remove it. Thanks for the tips on bleeding the system.

JD, I cannot really tell if tightening it made it worse necessarily, but since I had high expectations for a fix, I noticed more of the non-centering. I tightened it about 3/4 to 1 turn, and then backed it off about 1/2 turn.

The manuals at the link iin my last post are excellent....... you can print off the sheets you need or just take notes.

The 1/2 that you turned the sector shaft adjuster (net) wouldn't cause a return problem especially in a used gear box. If you have a concern with the effect of tightening that 1/2 turn, then back it off that amount again and check how it responds.

In 30 years of industry experiece, I have never seen a tech remove a steering gear JUST for an adjustment. The removal is always for another mechanical problem and the adjustment is the final step in the repair. Removing the gear at this point, without more investigation, would be a waste of your time (IMHO).

Seeing as the steering box does not cause the front wheels to return to the straight ahead position and can only mechanically prevent it if severely over adjusted, the things to check first would be:

Tire pressure
Ride height
Ball joints
tie rod ends
pitman arm & sector shaft side play
Binding in the steering column when you turn the wheel
Wheel alignment......

What returns the wheels to the straight ahead position is the weight of the vehicle acting thru the caster and KPI steering angles. Any thing that increases the mechanical resistance to this action, incorrect angles or severe play in the linkage that allows wander will reduce the returnability effect among other undesireable responses.

If you have more questions, I would be glad to help where I can..

JD

JD--I followed the manual link and downloaded the '93 manual. It has instructions for adjustment, and they are similar to what Mike mentioned. But let me ask another question: if the gear is either over- or under-tightened, then that would prevent return to center? Maybe what I had was looseness preventing it in the beginning, and then an over tighten preventing it now? If no, how does one get it back?

There was only play in the beginning, which was due to the steering box, and hence removed by tightening the screw atop the box. No more play now either side to side, nor by pushing/pulling on the wheel top and bottom to check ball joints, nor the push/pull from side to side on the wheel. And a shop confirmed the last time I was in that the gear box needed to be replaced (adjusted?). So, I'm willing to give anything a try...but I'll probably have a new gear box on standby in case thing go awry. :-)

But let me ask another question: if the gear is either over- or under-tightened, then that would prevent return to center? Maybe what I had was looseness preventing it in the beginning, and then an over tighten preventing it now? If no, how does one get it back?

I can see 1-1/2 turns causing an over tight condition but you tightened the adjuster screw about 1 turn and backed it off 1/2 turn. If you backed it off another 1/2 turn, it should be about where it was to begin with

an eighth or quarter of a turn one way or the other around the original position won't make that much difference to the problem at hand with the wear/mileage you describe.

If you do continue to adjust the box in the vehicle, keep track of how far you turn the adjuster..

One trick I've used is to count the number of turns of the steering wheel "lock to lock" and then turn back exactly half way. That positions you on the high spot of the ball nut and sector gear. Now turn the adjuster screw in till it seats firmly finger tight (counting exactly how far you've turned it and write it down). That takes up all the play where the resistance would be felt. Tighten the lock nut and take it for a road test.

I've done this on the bench and compared it to the regular adjustment results and the only way you could be over tightened is if you are not on the high spot (wheels exactly straight ahead) or there is wear in the sector shaft bushings.

When your shop guy said the steering box needed replacement, was it due to side play where the sector shaft came out of the bottom of the box??? Adjusting the box isn't likely to help that.

Other questions: are you running stock size tires and rims??..... Some changes to the rim fit with aftermarket wheels can reduce the leverage that the tire exerts on the spindle (working with caster and KPI)

And.... is there a steering stabilizer installed on the steering linkage?.....

JD

I think you guys are looking at this from differing viewpoints. JD obviously has some commercial wrenching experience and from that stand point, decisions as to whether or not to address a repair or adjustment can be influenced by time and cost. Just because most commercial establishments will not do this prcedure is no reason you shouldn't do it. You, Mr Carlson, the hobbiest mechanic, have the choice to tackle a job that no professional will do for you or.... not.... and for you to do the work will cost you nothing but your time. Your XJ no doubt has well over 100K on it and it no doubt has some normal wear in the steering box. The procedure in the manual is to make adjustments to compensate for normal wear; if the engineers at Saginaw did not anticipate the box to loosen a bit over time, they would not have designed it to be adjustable.

The overcenter adjustment *will not take out the slop in your steering box*. The reason it feels "tighter" is because, literally, it is..... so tight it will not longer freely rotate with back inputs from the suspension/tires/steering geometry. The worm bearing preload adjustment (the internal nut/lock nut assembly) is what compensates for the normal wear of the internals; it must be adjusted first followed by the overcenter adjustment. The OC adjustment creates a very slight amount of drag or resistance as the steering centers. As others suggested, replacing tie rod ends and the pitman arm are things I would do if it were my Jeep (especially if it's a high mileage vehicle); they are not expensive and can (along with a box adjustment) bring the responsiveness back to your steering.... which can make you feel like you've got a new Jeep :-)

mike

Thanks for the responses. Between the discussion here, and reading the manual, I think I get the gist of what has to be done. Aside from being able to feel play by pulling/pushing the wheel from side to side, how do you know if the tie-rod ends, or pitman arms are worn? There's no play I can tell accounted for by these components. However, there is a "knock, bump, pop" (call it what you want) coming from the front end somewhere while driving at very slow speeds, or in reverse while the wheels are turned. Very situational dependent. It's inconsistent but occurs like when I pull a hard left out of the drive way, or then back up the opposite way (left/right). It usually only occurs once per drive (depending on the force in which the Jeep is moving). When I had this similar problem one time before, the shop said the brake caliper needed a shim. They put a shim in and it went away. This sounds a little different. Sometimes is sounds like it could be coming from the tie-rod end near the passenger side, other times it feels like it's under my feet. Maybe that's the tie rod ends? Again, I cannot get any play when the Jeep is up on jack stands and I push/pull on the wheels. Note: there was some play before I started this whole ordeal with the steering gear...that pretty much went away after I tightened the OC.

I'm running everything stock...tires, etc. No lift or anything...yet. Ha! Shop just said it could be replaced, didn't specify the actual wear point, and I didn't ask at the time. BTW, the Jeep has 163K on it. My goal is to get 200K out of it...and who knows, if I keep having fun with it, I'll rebuild the engine when it's time (or drop a long block in it :-)) and keep it going on till I cannot see past the steering wheel or I cannot remember where I was going.

Aside from being able to feel play by pulling/pushing the wheel from side to side, how do you know if the tie-rod ends, or pitman arms are worn?

Two ways are used to detect wear and play in the steering linkage.

1. The dry park test. With the engine off, all the wheels on the ground and the front wheels straight ahead, have a helper move the steering wheel firmly back and forth. While they are doing this, put your hand over each pivot point so you are touching both parts of the joint with one hand.

You will be able to feel any play in the joint this way. Do all pivot points on both input and output sides of the steering box. When you check the sector shaft for wear, grasp the houseing and touch the shaft or pitman arm close to the housing at the same time.

The wheels must be on the ground because this provides resistance and forces the play to be taken up. This is also the position where the wear has been happining. If the vehicle is raised, the wheels and linkage move to a new unworn position and you get a false reading.

2. Rotational torque. Manufactures often specify a minimum rotational torque for a tie rod end or a ball joint. You must disassemble the joint to make the test with a torque wrench. If my memory serves me, this can be as low as 5 inlb up to 15 inlb with wear before they recommend replacement.

However, there is a "knock, bump, pop" (call it what you want) coming from the front end somewhere while driving at very slow speeds, or in reverse while the wheels are turned. Very situational dependent. It's inconsistent but occurs like when I pull a hard left out of the drive way, or then back up the opposite way (left/right). It usually only occurs once per drive (depending on the force in which the Jeep is moving).

If your wheels are turned tight against the turn stops, there can be some sounds as the knuckle and stop "grind" against each other. Put a bit of chassis grease on each stop and see if the sound changes. This is more common in a independent front suspension but might apply to yours too.

My goal is to get 200K out of it...and who knows, if I keep having fun with it, I'll rebuild the engine when it's time (or drop a long block in it :-)) and keep it going on till I cannot see past the steering wheel or I cannot remember where I was going.

And thats when you'll have the most fun:smile: ya just won't know it......

JD

I would also check your front axle u-joints,they can cause the steering wheel not to return to center,also the u-joints on the steering shaft(from the column to the gear box)are a very common cause.I seriously doubt if its the gear box,especially if you had this problem before.I personally don't like trying to tighten up steering gears because I have seen that usually there is play in them because they are worn out.Sometimes you can tighten them up a little but a lot of times it will be better when the wheel is centered because that is where it is worn but then it binds when you turn a little.