Can't get at the back 3 sparkplugs, any ideas?

I started changing out the plugs on my '96 Lumina and ran into a wall, when it became obvious that the back three plugs were buried under, who knows what. Anybody out there have any ideas on how to properly go about this? Coming up from the bottom doesn't look good either.

AJ

You have to remove the front dogbones (motor mounts) and tilt the engine forward. It helps to park on a slight incline. It's also a good idea to use two bolts and a wrench to hold the motor forward while you change the plugs. You can use the slave loops on the dogbones, but I've never done it that way.

95 and up Luminas don't rock forward, at least not like the earlier ones. Replacing the plugs is done by feel on these ones. I found on my 95 Lumina LS 3.4 that you need a 9" extension and a spark plug socket with the rubber boot inside. You will need to pull the rubber molding away from the edge of the engine compartment right at the base of the window. This will allow you to slip the plug and extension down and the thread it in by hand, then plenty of room for a socket wrench. Take you time and dont crank like crazy when you loosen them. One broke the first time I did them. And use dielectric grease when you put the plug wires on. It gets mighty hot there and you dont want the wires to fuse on them.

Ugh! No short cuts there, I guess.

Thanks for the info.

:uhoh:

I started changing out the plugs on my '96 Lumina and ran into a wall, when it became obvious that the back three plugs were buried under, who knows what. Anybody out there have any ideas on how to properly go about this? Coming up from the bottom doesn't look good either.

AJ

That doesnt sound like a bad idea imma try that and see if that helps me out i hate reaching for those 3 plugs. :banghead:

The 95 and newer cars don't rock forward? I don't know what kind of engine that you have, but from what I have seen, all of them rock forward. Even my 96 rocks forward, allowing me to change plugs and remove the valve covers.

OK, sounds like the voice of experience talking. So, remove the anti-torque restraints and the engine will rock far enough to permit easier access? Just like that? Is there that much play in the motor/tranny mounts?

Worth a try.

Before rocking the motor forward, make sure the transmission is in neutral. With it in park, the engine will hardly move. If it's neutral, it moves pretty easily. The best way that we've done it is to stick a breaker bar (huge long handled ratchet), or you can use something like a pipe wrench, to stick down in the area where the dog-bones go and pull it forward. It's real easy to do with two people. If you notice on one of the dog bones, there's a little loop on the bottom of it. You'll need to run the bolt thru the torque strut on the engine, thru the loop on the dog bone, and thru the other side of the torque strut. It was pretty hard to get the bolt to go thru both sides of the torque strut holes, but as long as it's in one of them and thru the loop, it should hold with no problem.

This is sounding better all the time. Looks like a project for next weekend's to-do list. Thanks for the tips, though. I'll print this out for reference.

Before rocking the motor forward, make sure the transmission is in neutral. With it in park, the engine will hardly move. If it's neutral, it moves pretty easily. The best way that we've done it is to stick a breaker bar (huge long handled ratchet), or you can use something like a pipe wrench, to stick down in the area where the dog-bones go and pull it forward. It's real easy to do with two people. If you notice on one of the dog bones, there's a little loop on the bottom of it. You'll need to run the bolt thru the torque strut on the engine, thru the loop on the dog bone, and thru the other side of the torque strut. It was pretty hard to get the bolt to go thru both sides of the torque strut holes, but as long as it's in one of them and thru the loop, it should hold with no problem.


AHhhhh so thats what i needed to do i tried to move the engine and i rarely moved. So yur saying once i put it in nuetral i will have more slack to move it ?

Absolutely.. Try moving it forward in park... Then try it in Neutral. BIG difference. If it's in neutral and your strong enough, you may be able to grab onto the alternator and pull it forward by hand.

So i wont need a tourqe strut to move it i can just move it from the altenator then ?

It worked for me when pulling on the alternator.. Just make sure it's nice and tight so you won't rip it off the engine.

It worked for me when pulling on the alternator.. Just make sure it's nice and tight so you won't rip it off the engine.


LoL ya that would = the sucketh how far will it move once its in neutral ?

It should move far enough to run the bolt thru, but you might have to yank it while putting the bolt thru if it has trouble going thru the loop and holes

OK, so I removed the dog bone bolts yesterday and was able to tilt the engine all of about 1/2" forward. Whoopie. There is something else that I need to know. How about the exhaust pipe? That motor isn't going anywhere with that connected. Anything else that I haven't
been told to disconnect to get the motor to move that far? The upper radiator hose also looks very reluctant to allow the motor to move.

Good thing these things are very infrequent maintenance items. I'm going back out to the garage right now to remove the exhaust. I'll check back with you all later....

OK, so I removed the dog bone bolts yesterday and was able to tilt the engine all of about 1/2" forward. Whoopie. There is something else that I need to know. How about the exhaust pipe? That motor isn't going anywhere with that connected. Anything else that I haven't
been told to disconnect to get the motor to move that far? The upper radiator hose also looks very reluctant to allow the motor to move.

Uhoh. I just remembered that I forgot to take it out of Park.
I'll get back to you all later, after I check it out again. :loser:

Hurray i = teh winnar i took the dogbones off put her in neutral i had to lay on top of my engine to stick the tool down there to get those plugs. I hate being short but i changed them thanx for the help guys. :biggrin:

Y'all are doing it the really hard way.
I just got finished doing the heads on my neighbors 96 Lumina.
Forget all that rocking the engine forward!
Remove the coil pack. That will give you all the room you need. I tried to get the plugs out before I pulled the heads and found it impossible to do. But if you disconnect the electrical connections to the coils including the plug wires then the two bolts and the two nuts holding the coils in place, you will have all the clearance needed to get the plugs out. I am sure this is how line mechanics do it.
Much easier than removing the engine supports and then trying to pull the engine forward.
Try it, you'll see. Worked for me!

Sure seems like it's more work to remove the coil pack rather than rocking the engine.

As for mechanics, these assholes up here at the oil joint rock the motor forward. I drove up to autozone one day and they had a cavalier with the engine rocked forward to replace the plugs.

All I was suggesting was an alternative way to do this. Yes there might be a few connections, but just try it. I don't like the idea of straining the motor mounts and the exhaust to change plugs. Removing the coils is not really that big of a deal.

The exhaust has one of those whatchamacallits that can bend and twist a certain amount without breaking. It's on the exhaust right behind the engine after the manifolds. This allows the engine to rock forward/backward when you floor it and not break the exhaust.

As for the motor mounts, they're made from rubber, which can withstand a lot of force. I see what your saying about removing the coil pack. I looked on mine earlier tonight. I checked in the Haynes manual to see how they recommend it, and they recommend rocking the motor forward.

Hi,

I followed the manual when I replaced the spark plugs on my 97 lumina. I thought it would be a pain the tilt the engine forward, but it was really trick. I got my engine to tilt forward a lot more than 1/2 inch and was afforded plenty of room to get at the back plugs. I used a racheting strap and connected it to an eye bolt I fastened to a wall stud in my garage and then to the engine boss. It worked great. I admit it was a bit strange going though all of that the first time, but it's how I got mine out.

Hope this helps.

C. Smith

My friend had the same car and he always jacked the motor forward, with the dogbones dissconnected. i did this to change my plugs but i forgot how he did it and where he jacked it up from, but maybe one day i will figure it out again

Y'all are doing it the really hard way.
I just got finished doing the heads on my neighbors 96 Lumina.
Forget all that rocking the engine forward!
Remove the coil pack. That will give you all the room you need. I tried to get the plugs out before I pulled the heads and found it impossible to do. But if you disconnect the electrical connections to the coils including the plug wires then the two bolts and the two nuts holding the coils in place, you will have all the clearance needed to get the plugs out. I am sure this is how line mechanics do it.
Much easier than removing the engine supports and then trying to pull the engine forward.
Try it, you'll see. Worked for me!


I have changed the plugs on my 95 3.1 both ways and while they both work! I personally have found i have more work space and can see better removing the coil pack. Nothing like going in blind to strip a sparkplug. But it all comes down to what works best for you.

Using pry bars usually leads to other broken things..(unless you are more dainty than me) Park the car on a decline in neutral with front tires chocked (front of the car lower). Remove the two bolts on the upper dog bones. Put car in park. Kick the chocks out and the torque will flip the engine forward...no prying, no crying!!!

Is it easy to get the motor back into postion when done changing plugs and wires?
Is there alot of pressure on the dog bones that it will be hard to pull the bolts out?
thx,

Is it easy to get the motor back into postion when done changing plugs and wires?
Is there alot of pressure on the dog bones that it will be hard to pull the bolts out?
thx,


Well..all I can say is if you follow the manual's recommendations to remove the bolts to the dog bones and use a ratcheting type strap to tilt the engine forward, you should have no problem releasing the tension on the strap and having it go back to the same place. The bolt go right back in. I didn't mount the strap to the engine and then to the underside of the bumper because I didn't want to crack anything. I mounted a large eye bolt into a 2x4 wall stud in my garage, and attached the strap to that and the engine. It worked flawlessly. I've read the other posts and I can't be sure of what to make of parking the car on a hill and snapping the engine forward, or using pry bars. It is also recommended to take the air filter assembly off (as much as you can) so that the engine tilts forward without breaking any of the plastic. As I mentioned in my prior post, it does seem weird to tilt the engine forward like this, but that's the way it is done. It's pretty trick.

Good Luck

Thanks for the help.
This is a friends car that I told him it would be no problem to change plugs and wires. Next time I'll look first to see what I'm dealing with.
Thus why I don't have a manual.
I like the strap idea. I'm going to assume there is alot of weight that wants the engine to go back in place. From the way it sounds it will be a piece of cake as long as your careful.

If you use a couple of extensions and an elbow inbetween then you won't have to take anything apart except popping off the plug wires....takes all of like 15 minutes every time I do my plugs...

Given that I just transitioned from driving a '90 with a 2.5 to a '97 with the 3.1, I share your pain. However, I found on mine, that it was not necessary to rock the motor forward to get to cyl's 1-3-5. Maybe it's just because I have skinny "E.T." like arms but I was able to just do it all by feel. But as one of the other posters in this forum advised, you HAVE to take your time if doing it by feel.

By the by, why does the sticker and the book mandate that the engine is cold when changing plugs. I mean besides the obvious, you don't want to burn your arms, but is there a mechanical reason behind this?

By the by, why does the sticker and the book mandate that the engine is cold when changing plugs. I mean besides the obvious, you don't want to burn your arms, but is there a mechanical reason behind this?

If you take a spark plug out while the engine is hot the size of the hole will shrink, because it just cooled down while there was nothing in there to keep the aluminum stretched out to the right size. Kind of like the metal stretches easier when it is hot then no contracts when it is cooling down......I found this out the hard way and had to rethread the hole when I couldn't get the spark plug threaded back in.