1990 chevy lumina

Please help me
I have a 1990 chevy lumina apv (van), About two months ago it just died about two miles of driving,and it started right back up, But it scared me so I turned around and went home,Anyway after that
I took it to a machanic,He kept it for two weeks and it would not
die for him, he said the computer showed nothing to be wrong so he put new sparkplugs in it and we got it back. Two weeks later it started doing it again.It dies going down the road at any givin time and after I try and try to start it it finely starts.While trying to start it,it backfires,but when it finely starts it runs like theres nothing wrong with it entil it starts doing it again.(now I drive about two or three blocks and it dies) I've changed the coil,the modual inside the distributor and the coil wire,no help. does anyone know whats wrong?

Think I've figured it out, Went out after dark and started it looked under hood in the dark, after motor warmed up I saw sparks, looks like bad plug wires.

So far so good. working fine after changing plug wire set.

two days later, same thing, stalls going down the road or sitting still. can someone tell me where the ECM is located?

I disconnected the positive side of the battery for 30 seconds (well it was more like ten minutes) connected it back and presto! it acts like nothing is wrong with it. Oct.9th I've drove it about 150 miles and it hasn't even died once.

You replaced all the ignition stuff, so by process of elimination I would guess it is a fuel problem -> more specifically the fuel pump. The fact you can start the car up and that it runs for a few minutes and then dies seems to fit the "heart not pumping enough blood" problem. When you turn your key to ON (not to START), the fuel pump is told to prime the fuel system (pressurize the fuel line). When it does this, it is forcing fuel into the fuel line, but no fuel is being let out to burn at the other end (in the engine). When your key goes to START, the engine starts trying to use that pressurized fuel, and since the pump had a head-start, the engine will run for a bit. When the engine's demand for fuel catches up with the pump's head-start, the pump will no longer be able to supply enough gas to the engine, causing it to die.
The above answer is the most probable. It could also be a faulty fuel-pump relay (EASILY replacable by ANYONE, and it only costs $30), but the odds of that almost nil.

Sorry dude, but I have a really really hard time seeing "disconnecting the battery" as anything but a coincidence. If the battery or charging system was the problem you would have known about it a long time ago (slow cranking, amp-light coming on, being stranded, etc), and your mechanic would have figure it out already.

i own a 1990 Chevrolet Lumina Sedan. Its nothing real nice, but its been a good car. Just recently it has started to stall. We all like to take off fast, and I have always punched it at stop lights and stop signs, and recently when i punch it, the car just dies, and i turn the key to start and it cranks an unusually amount of time before it finally starts again. But it does start, everytime. A while back i had a new overdrive converter put in, so probably not that, and it has been tuned up, and i did have to drop a new ecu in it, and plugs and plug wires are all new. One thing i have noticed is that when it stalls, and i go to start it again, it seems not to be getting gas, or maybe its flooded, I'm not really an expert, but it does kind of annoy me. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. The car does however run and take off just fine when I don't can on it, maybe i should just stop, but I like doing it, its gonna be hard. A friend suggested to take it down a freeway 80mph for 40 miles to clean the carbon out of the engine, would this be of any help? Also i did run stp fuel injector cleaner through a few gas tanks ago. I gained a little more take off, but still stalls. If its important, its a 2.5L 4 cylinder with 190,000 actual miles on the origional engine, and origional tranny. Please email me, thanks. tblaketb@yahoo.com

I would definately check your fuel pump (for making sure that gas is definately pumped into the injectors when you need it) the fuel accumulator (for keeping the pressure of the gas vapors going to your engine allowing it to have warm starts in even the coldest weather) the fuel filter (too much carbon could be in your fuel system now that little to no fuel may be able to get through - esp. at low rpms) the fuel distributor and the injectors as well as the fuel lines - (to make sure there may not be a clog of carbon somewhere that may be too tough to get rid of - usually you can check for this by listening to the sound of the gas passing through the line) I own a 90 VW and had a prob with this for awhile and it turned out to be the fuel pump and accumulator (already replaced the filter before so that helped a little) but hopefully this information becomes helpful!

I just had the fuel filter changed, and there isn't a distributer on that car, but I don't know if there is a lot of carbon built up. It does usually get driven at lower speeds, so that might be a possibility. It also does idle higher than most already. So I don't really know. I was thinking maybe fuel pump relay, fuel pressure regulator, or throttle position censor? Please let me know what you think as i'm not anywhere near an expert. And if all it is is carbon built up, what should be done to clean the system out? I did use STP a little while ago. Thanks

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but, tblake I would check the Throttle Positioning Sensor. My car does the same thing. I will cut off when I try to accelerate.

and what kind of car do you have, may i ask? Also where is the throttle position sensor lacated? I'm the dumbest person about all this, all I know basically is that if I hit the gas and it dies, something is wrong. Thanks

That would definately be your fuel filter needing to be replaced if you have carbon buildup - it wouldn't hurt to clean out the throttle body as well :) I would also have your alternator checked out - there may not be a sufficient enough charge - bad voltage regulator/solenoid? That would be my next best guess - hmmm....I remember this happened to me - the starter was fine - would provide the charge - but my alternator wasn't working right - and every like what seemed like 5 minutes it would die - I would start it back up and it would die again so that might be it too after it was replaced it ran fine :)

The alternator is only 3 yrs old. I was also wondering if when it stalls, I could plug it into one of those computers that would check it? would this tell me whats happening? I'm thinking about buying one, they are only 20.00 at wal mart. Might be a good investment? I thought that since when it stalls, I get the "Service Engine Soon" light, it might trigger an error code, or am I wrong? I think I might want to buy this 20.00 gadget before I start sticking money into it. Any ideas? Thanks a lot! :smile:

An OBD I scanner I believe is what ya mean? :) I would definately get one of them - the error code may not be properly understood - but it would give you something to tell maybe someone like a Mr.Goodwrech serviceperson or a really good mechanic :) I would also get the Autotech CD if you could - they have a wonderful database of common problems and solutions - works wonders for me! :) Hope this helps! :)

thanks a lot, that settles it then, I'm gonna get one of those scanner things. and as a matter of fact, i did have it in to country chev about 7 miles away from where i live, and the service tech got in the car, drove it and said, it didn't stall for him at all, so I got in with him, and it didnt stall then either, maybe tempermental? go figure. At any rate, I get more and more of a delay when I hit the gas and the car finally goes, could this be the ignition compression sensor? thanks a million guys, your big help.

I had that same exact problem - sounds like your either your fuel accumulator or your fuel pump is going - more your accumulator than your pump - engine doesn't sound like it's getting the pressure that it needs and that's the job of that car part - like when you press on the gas it feels like the engine is almost trying to exhaust itself backwards until it finally goes right - improper air/fuel ratio - I would seriously have that fuel system checked out if thats whats causing it :) Hope this helps! :)

ya, thats kind of what I was thinking. bad fuel to air ratio. A friend looked at it, and said something about the throttle position set screw? He said, its not letting ait in right away, and it gets gas, so it kind of floods, and then once the throttle is pushed far enough, air comes in, and it goes. maybe this is true, i don't really know. He seems like he knows what he's talking about. maybe i should look into that too, huh?

by the way, where exactally is the fuel accumilator? Is it in the gas tank like the fuel pump is? This weekend I am also going to change the fuel filter myself so i know its done right, I had someone else do it last time, and to make a long story short, that was last summer when I was having a shit load of trouble with the car, and I took it to this fast lube in my town, and they drove it into the shop to change the fuel filter, and to get it out, the guy said, they "Put gas in the carburator". I looked at him like, and i trust you to change a fuel filter on my car when you think a fuel injected car has a carburator? anywyas, I dont go there anymore. So I was thinking this dumbass might have fucked something up, because when I think about it, that is when all these delay problems started. Also i dont know if they put a good fuel filter in it or a crappy kind, you guys know of any good ones? Thanks.

Definately I would check into that - also you might want to have your air pressure regulator or your fuel pressure regulator as well :)

I got the gm code reader which is a pretty nice gadget. It tells me error code 45, which means rich exhaust. I dont know, maybe getting too much gas? Also it said to pull the fuse for the ecm for 15 secs, and run the car for 4o miles and test it again to get new ecm error codes. Which i might do. Any ideas on the rich exhaust? Thanks

Just as I thought - you have a bad air/fuel ratio - rich is actually bad - means you're getting too much fuel and not enough gas - lean means that you're getting too much gas and not enough fuel - I have made a list of components that are usually found in just about every vehicle that should be checked in order to find a proper solution:


Air Temperature sensor<-one of my guesses
Air flow sensor<-one of my guesses
Mixture screw<-one of my guesses
cold start injector<-one of my guesses
auxilary air regulator<-one of my guesses
Oxygen sensor<-one of my guesses
Fuel pressure regulator<-one of my guesses
Fuel accumulator<-one of my guesses
Ignition
Relay
throttle valve
Idle screw
throttle switch
RPM signal
Thermo-time switch
Engine temperature sensor
Fuel injector
Fuel Rail
Fuel Filter
Fuel pump
Fuel tank
ECM/ECU
I would also consider getting an air/fuel ratio meter - they really work wonders cause this problem can lead to costly repairs if ignored over time :( Hope this helps! I would also try that 40 mile thing - what that'll do is reset the ECU to break the electronic cycle and possibly realize what it is doing wrong and correct itself

ok, thanks a lot. A buddy of mine told me that some cars have 2 O2 sensors, one before the catalyic and one after, and he said if they both get the same readings, then it will trip the service engine soon light. Is this true, and does mine have 2? I found one before the catalyic, but I didnt look after. Also I was planning on trying that 40 mile thing. I just hope it doesnt leave me stranded. Is it possible that this will solve my problem? Also I did take if for a short 85mph trip for about a mile late last night down the freeway, so shhh. And this seemed to restore a lot of take off, but it still does its delay thing. I am gonna go a lot farther when I have more time. Last night I just didn't. Thanks for all your help already, and I'm gonna look in those things you listed.

There should only be one catalytic converter per manifold on the engine - unless they're plumbed together of course - so if you have two separate mufflers on each side of the back of the car then you may but if you only have one then you only have one cat and therefore you only have one O2 sensor :) but the air fuel ratio is usually calculated by the O2 sensor which is connected to your cat - I would definately have your fuel accumulator (stores the pressure needed to start up the car in even the coldest weather) and pump (to make sure that enough fuel is normally being pumped into the distributor and ultimately the injectors) checked out though - the accumulator holds the pressure needed to ensure proper start up (also check to fuel pressure regulator as well to make sure not too much is being sent to the distributor) and the pump is self explained - if any of these need to be replaced - improper air/fuel flow will occur to the engine :( I would watch that speed though just to be on the safe side - too much pressure to the engine may actually do more bad than good for both your fuel system as well as your engine :) If you have no problem starting up though - it wouldn't be your fuel pump and accumulator - but more your fuel pressure regulator or something else listed - or it could just be a bad O2 sensor - they do go bad so I would check that out as well :) Hope this helps! :)

Your car has 1 oxygen sensor in the rear manifold. It DOES NOT have a second sensor after the cat. That is only on ODBII cars. It also ONLY has 1 cat...regardless of how many mufflers it has. No w-body was ever sold with 2 converters. I would start by replacing your oxygen sensor, cleaning (or replacing) your throttle position sensor, and doing an idle re-learn procedure that can be found at www.60degreev6.com

If that does not cure it, then I would look into other sensors as causes of your problem.

If you still think it's fuel related, get a fuel pressure gauge and connect it to the test port on the end of the fuel rail (should have a black or silver cap on it) and see what your fuel pressure is at.

in reply to noodle32, My lumina has no problem starting at anytime, cold hot, rain, no problems. And when I do start it i can hear the fuel pump running for about 5 secs and then it shuts off, and I turn the key to start, and it starts right up. So if this is any help to you. I am going to look at it some night here though when it isnt so cold out. I live in minnesota, and lately it has been very cold. I'll keep you informed, Thanks a lot.

Just glad I can help :) It's the worst thing having to start a car and have it have problems - esp. when the fuel system gives ya grief - cause it seems simple but its stages make it so complex and difficult to understand - just glad I could shed some light on the subject :) My friend had an 88 Camaro and he loved that thing - but when that fuel pump went - you'd swear he lost a family member while it was being replaced - cranked forever but wouldn't turn - I had the same prob but it was the cold start - course I had to replace most of my 13 year old parts anyways figure if you're gonna go replace one thing in the system - may as well replace the majority to ensure it's reliability even more - cause nobody likes to be stuck esp. in the dead of winter

Thanks a lot guys, I did that idle relearn, and she sure idles perfect now, but it still has problems delaying. I have noticed that if i get in it and its 100% cold, it doesn't delay at all, but when its hot, not hot hot, but normal hot, it delays. I was also going to ask you where that fuel accumulator is located. Is it on the fuel pump. If it is, my fuel pump is in my gas tank, and a way too big job for me. Also I was wondering if a Hays repair manual would tell we where all these sensors are, because I am used to working on carburators, not computer controlled fuel injected. Finding the right sensor to me is like finding a needle in a hay stack. Thanks a lot.

New problem about my 1990 Chevy lumina. Its been getting cold here where i live, and I notice that when I start my car in the morning, it starts perfect every time, but I need to leave it idle for about 20 mins so it doesn't miss while I'm driving. It misses all the time till its warm. I can also feel it miss. The car shakes while going down the road, and acceleration is very very bad. I cant get it to even go 40 mph if i start it right up, and drive it right away. Plugs are new, and plug wires are too. Also is the coil. There is no distributer on this car being that its a 2.5 4 Cyl. I have also had a delay problem as I posted here earlier. Also I have bought a code reader from wall mart for 20 bux, and I plugged it in, and found out that I am getting rich exhaust. Which is triggering the "Check Engine Soon" light almost every time i drive it. The light comes on and a few secs later shuts off. i would like to know how to lean out my fuel to air ratio. Could my missing problem be a faulty plug wire, or a bad plug? I would like to put those 4 prong plugs in my car to increase horsepower. Do they actually increase horse power, or not? Also at my earlier post I have said that my lumina stalls. It doesnt anymore, but it still does delay pretty bad though. Any ideas about whats wrong would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot.

According to howstuffworks.com - I guessed that you were having a bad air/fuel ratio problem - when your engine is running too rich it means that theres too much fuel being burned and not enough oxygen - the reason for this is usually because the oxygen sensor may need to be replaced - the function of this sensor is to calculate the air/fuel ratio to the ECU to give your car the best performance based on all the other multiple calculations that it is recieving as well - when the Oxygen sensor goes bad - the ECU begins 'guessing' the air/fuel ratio - which is very bad for the performance of your car - it could run lean one day and rich the next in some of the worst cases - this would definately be a good place to start - here is also a site where you can get one at a reasonable price ($40) - hope this helps! :)

http://www.autopartsworld.com/new/product_availability.asp?product_number=C5010-100817&web_brand_id=denso&web_name_id=oxygen-sensor&year=1990&web_make_id=chevrolet&web_model_id=lumina&x=93&y=5

Source of HowStuffWorks Air/fuel ratio site:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question257.htm

yep, thats kind of the rout I was going. One thing doesnt make snese though, I just had a new O2 sensor put in this past summer. I think it is one of those "One Size Fits All" O2 sensors. Would this probably be why the car is running so bad? Thanks for your help.

Absolutely! Different O2 sensors are very specific because they are all designed different after all not all engines are going to have the same air/fuel ratio or be able to communicate with the ECU other than the one that is OEM designed - so this could definately be a possibility :)

Thanks, and another question. I had my car tuned up last summer at Country Chevrolet, the nearest chevy dealer near my house, and to tell you the truth, it didnt run any better, this seemed to be when the "delay" (Mentioned earlier), and the "misses" all started. I have just brought it to a good mechanic i know very well, and he had a little tester thing that he hooked up, and he checked to see if all he spark plugs were all sparking, and he found that one wasnt always. And these were brand new spark plugs from Country Chevrolet. Lets see if i ever go back there again. I replaced that plug, and it seemed a little better, but it still misses a lot when it is cold. Is it possible that the plugs could be causing my missing problem? Also is the gap an important part of spark plug installation? Because I dont think that chevy garage did it. Crooked Bastards. Country Chevrolet also replaced my plug wires. I wonder if i should be trusting them or not. Any answers or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

The gap is very important to the spark plug installation - if you can get your hands on a auto repair book it should mention the OEM gap settings - you can buy a gap adjuster and get them just right based on the specs - check to make sure theyre all about the same gap (you'll be able to know for sure by the tach - itll jump up and then back down based on the gap settings - hope this helps - I usually do whatever I can myself - that is one thing I would leave to yourself when replacing - its not hard really - just need the right socket and a long extension and a good wrench - plugs just pop right off - if it isnt that I would check your cap and rotor - also I would ask to have your ICU checked out (Ignition Control Unit) this is pretty much self explained but these can easily break down - they'll still work but its best to have them replaced every like 10 years - usually that's when alot of parts take their toll - (which is prolly why the longest lasting warranty is 10 years - go figure right? lol) Anyways - hope this helps! :)

Yes, I know what my gap is, its printed on a sticker under the hood, and I have a gap guage. I also dont have a distributer. Its only a 4 banger. I have a coil from what the mechanics have been telling me. Although, I dont know the difference between them. So maybe, I'll check those. Also, like I mentioned in the last post, I had a mechanic check my plugs that county chevrolet put in, and he found that one wasnt firing. I am not sure if he replaced them all, or just that one. Would this make a difference if one plug was a little newer than the rest? Even if it was the same exact kind from the same company? Thanks so much.

You may also need to have your timing adjusted - if its one degree behind its normal setting you'll run too lean - and if its one degree ahead you'll run too lean unless like you said you don't have a distributor making it a distributorless ignition - then the problem might lie in the ignition coil - if it's damaged or worn out - it may cause a lower charge in voltage than normal and that can affect the performance of a car - some coils will slowly wear out till they don't work anymore - others will just cut off interrupting the engine cycle completely - causing the car to stall every shortly after the car is started - so this could be a problem part as well - the ignition coil that is - the difference between an ignition coil and a distributor is that unless you have distributorless ignition - the coil will be attached to a spark plug wire unlike the others - the spark plug wire will have the same connection on both ends - the coil is usually shaped like a cylinder - it should have positive and negative connections usually found on either side of the top of the coil (+ / spark plug connector / - ) this will run to your distributorless ignition via the spark plug wire - but if you had a distributor - the coil would run to the distributor and then the other spark plug wires would surround the this coil connection in the center - based on the engine spark sequence - I have a link below that should show a pic of a distributor (to get an better idea just in case) and of a coil that should be similary to the one in your car - it's also compatible (I believe) and an ebay item so if you wanna purchase it - hope this helps! :)
Ignition coil: (as you can see where the (+ / spark plug / -) is setup at the top -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33689&item=2453512884#ebayphotohosting

Distributor pic (just a sample but as you can see how the plug spark plug wires surround the wire that connect to the coil):
http://keith.cj8.tripod.com/images/tfi_conversion/distributor_2.JPG