HELP!!! 96 FIREBIRD starting/not starting!
KENNY GUIDO
02-13-2012, 02:27 PM
Ok, this is really weird. I would get into my car and put the key in the ignition. I would leave the door ajar and the lights would "flicker" and the chime would flicker along with the light. then I would turn the ignition and "nothing". I would wait a minute, maybe longer then i would turn it and then it turns on. what is wrong? I also noticed that the door locks would not operate during this time, either. but when the engine finally cranks over, the light/chime would flicker for a quik second. theres no rhyme or reason as to why its doing this. please help!! thanks!!
I checked all grounds (most of them) battery and posts and new starter.:banghead:
I checked all grounds (most of them) battery and posts and new starter.:banghead:
KENNY GUIDO
03-10-2012, 11:15 AM
Anyone?
brcidd
03-10-2012, 11:26 AM
If security light is on- it takes 4 minutes for it to go out, then engine will crank- if Passkey system lets it. Security light should come on at key on, then go off after about 4 seconds- if it stays on, then the resistor pellet in the key is not being read properly- clean it, or try second key.
j cAT
03-11-2012, 10:13 AM
so your problem is the vehicle would not start. then you replaced the starter with no improvement .
as mentioned , could be a bad key . the resistor does over time wear causing a poor connection to the ignition lock cylinder. then there is the relay that would cause the vehicle to start if the resistance of the key is correct.
to do this you will need a wiring diagram for troubleshooting. you will need an oem manual , or online subscription to access this info.
as mentioned , could be a bad key . the resistor does over time wear causing a poor connection to the ignition lock cylinder. then there is the relay that would cause the vehicle to start if the resistance of the key is correct.
to do this you will need a wiring diagram for troubleshooting. you will need an oem manual , or online subscription to access this info.
Tech II
03-11-2012, 01:46 PM
Could be a bad ignition switch or bad connection at the battery, causing the flicker......
As for nothing happening when the key is turned to the crank position, check when the key is turned to "on", that the SECURITY light goes out after 5 seconds.....if it stays on, you have a PassKey problem....
As for nothing happening when the key is turned to the crank position, check when the key is turned to "on", that the SECURITY light goes out after 5 seconds.....if it stays on, you have a PassKey problem....
KENNY GUIDO
03-20-2012, 09:24 AM
the problem is random. one second, i can put the key in, crank it and it starts. then i can shut the car off, then try to crank it and nothing. thats when the problem with the lights "flickering", the door chime going "beep-beep-beep-beep-beep" instead of the normal "beeeeeeeeep", the door locks not working and the car not starting happens. I repeat the steps several times then it starts. theres ny ryme or reason why its doing this. I had a spare key but it does the same thing with the spare too.
the only thing i remember doing prior to this was purchasing a used firebird remote that allows me to unlock the doors without using the key. I punched in the code and it worked. it seems that after that is when my problems occurred. it didnt happen the next day but months after i programmed the keyless entry is when it started. I dont know if theyre related and I hope not. if it is, then im destined to be without a remote i guess but right now, the remote doesnt work (dead battery in remote?)
the only thing i remember doing prior to this was purchasing a used firebird remote that allows me to unlock the doors without using the key. I punched in the code and it worked. it seems that after that is when my problems occurred. it didnt happen the next day but months after i programmed the keyless entry is when it started. I dont know if theyre related and I hope not. if it is, then im destined to be without a remote i guess but right now, the remote doesnt work (dead battery in remote?)
KENNY GUIDO
03-20-2012, 11:00 AM
ok, heres a quik video. the problem is not happening but you can hear the chime in the background "breaking up" (beep-beep-bee-beep". the door is open when i do this, and the interior lights flicker when i do this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FULSCaaRXiQ&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FULSCaaRXiQ&feature=youtu.be
KENNY GUIDO
03-21-2012, 04:31 PM
ok, my mechanic mentioned something about a "immobilizer" but he doubts it that. does anyone know about it?
Tech II
03-21-2012, 08:26 PM
Your car doesn't have an "immobilzer" per say......when i think of an immobilizer, especially the one's used in modern GM cars is, there is no ignition key.....your key fob has to be on you or in the center console of the car...then you must step on the brake, and push a button to start the vehicle....
What your vehicle has is called PasKey.....there is a black resistor pellet on the ignition key.....the key cylinder makes contact with the resistor pellet, completing a circuit back to the Passkey module, so that the module can read the resistance of the key........
We have asked you to look at the SECURITY light.....when you turn the key to "on", wait 5 seconds to see if the light goes out......if it does, then try to start the car....does it crank? If it doesn't and the light goes out, there are other possibilities......if it doesn't go out, the car won't crank, and the usual problem is the wiring to the ignition cylinder....
What your vehicle has is called PasKey.....there is a black resistor pellet on the ignition key.....the key cylinder makes contact with the resistor pellet, completing a circuit back to the Passkey module, so that the module can read the resistance of the key........
We have asked you to look at the SECURITY light.....when you turn the key to "on", wait 5 seconds to see if the light goes out......if it does, then try to start the car....does it crank? If it doesn't and the light goes out, there are other possibilities......if it doesn't go out, the car won't crank, and the usual problem is the wiring to the ignition cylinder....
KENNY GUIDO
03-22-2012, 05:29 AM
Your car doesn't have an "immobilzer" per say......when i think of an immobilizer, especially the one's used in modern GM cars is, there is no ignition key.....your key fob has to be on you or in the center console of the car...then you must step on the brake, and push a button to start the vehicle....
What your vehicle has is called PasKey.....there is a black resistor pellet on the ignition key.....the key cylinder makes contact with the resistor pellet, completing a circuit back to the Passkey module, so that the module can read the resistance of the key........
We have asked you to look at the SECURITY light.....when you turn the key to "on", wait 5 seconds to see if the light goes out......if it does, then try to start the car....does it crank? If it doesn't and the light goes out, there are other possibilities......if it doesn't go out, the car won't crank, and the usual problem is the wiring to the ignition cylinder....
there is nothing wrong with the key. we cleaned it and we even used the spare and they both have the same results. right now, its not doing it (its random) but in the video, you can see part of the problem where it goes "beep-beep-beep-beep". until it does it again, i cant tell if the security light stays on but i keep checking to c if it does stay on.
my mechanic said its called "vehicle immobilizer" and he said he found it on the internet (the diagram) and it is in my car year/model, under the dashboard.
What your vehicle has is called PasKey.....there is a black resistor pellet on the ignition key.....the key cylinder makes contact with the resistor pellet, completing a circuit back to the Passkey module, so that the module can read the resistance of the key........
We have asked you to look at the SECURITY light.....when you turn the key to "on", wait 5 seconds to see if the light goes out......if it does, then try to start the car....does it crank? If it doesn't and the light goes out, there are other possibilities......if it doesn't go out, the car won't crank, and the usual problem is the wiring to the ignition cylinder....
there is nothing wrong with the key. we cleaned it and we even used the spare and they both have the same results. right now, its not doing it (its random) but in the video, you can see part of the problem where it goes "beep-beep-beep-beep". until it does it again, i cant tell if the security light stays on but i keep checking to c if it does stay on.
my mechanic said its called "vehicle immobilizer" and he said he found it on the internet (the diagram) and it is in my car year/model, under the dashboard.
Tech II
03-22-2012, 10:16 AM
If you are not going to do what I ask you to do, I can't help you....I have asked you twice to follow my directions......
KENNY GUIDO
03-22-2012, 05:07 PM
If you are not going to do what I ask you to do, I can't help you....I have asked you twice to follow my directions......
Ive done that. turned the key, watched the security light go off and turn the ignition and it starts. but like i said, its random when the car does not start. Ive been starting the car 20 times in a row and it has no problems. you hear the slight "beep beep beep beep" break up and them it disappears and theres a normal, steady "beeeeeeeeeep".
but i think i do believe i have seen the security light stay on while turning the ignition a few weeks ago and it wouldnt go off normally. im going to spend part of saturday looking at it.
Ive done that. turned the key, watched the security light go off and turn the ignition and it starts. but like i said, its random when the car does not start. Ive been starting the car 20 times in a row and it has no problems. you hear the slight "beep beep beep beep" break up and them it disappears and theres a normal, steady "beeeeeeeeeep".
but i think i do believe i have seen the security light stay on while turning the ignition a few weeks ago and it wouldnt go off normally. im going to spend part of saturday looking at it.
KENNY GUIDO
03-29-2012, 05:46 AM
**UPDATE**
OK, spent some time on the firebird yesterday and after repeated attempts, the car DID NOT START. I then turned the ignition again, did not crank, waited 4 seconds and then cranked and still nothing.
the thing is the SECURITY light DID NOT TURN ON AT ALL each and everytime I tried to crank the engine.
finally, after about 5 attempts, the SECURITY light came on and it cranked over.
OK, spent some time on the firebird yesterday and after repeated attempts, the car DID NOT START. I then turned the ignition again, did not crank, waited 4 seconds and then cranked and still nothing.
the thing is the SECURITY light DID NOT TURN ON AT ALL each and everytime I tried to crank the engine.
finally, after about 5 attempts, the SECURITY light came on and it cranked over.
oldblu65
03-30-2012, 06:01 PM
My Impala recently went through a similar sounding problem to what you say your car is doing . Majority of the time , it started just fine but occasionally when you turned the key , it would do nothing - I mean absolutely nothing ! No clicks , no lights , nothing ! I was afraid I had a major problem of some kind and feared it would be expensive ! Turned out the fairly new battery had a bad cell and after replacing it , the problem ceased and it runs and starts just fine now ! Don't know if this applies to your situation but even if your battery is new , I'd have it checked to be sure ! Good luck !
KENNY GUIDO
03-30-2012, 06:49 PM
My Impala recently went through a similar sounding problem to what you say your car is doing . Majority of the time , it started just fine but occasionally when you turned the key , it would do nothing - I mean absolutely nothing ! No clicks , no lights , nothing ! I was afraid I had a major problem of some kind and feared it would be expensive ! Turned out the fairly new battery had a bad cell and after replacing it , the problem ceased and it runs and starts just fine now ! Don't know if this applies to your situation but even if your battery is new , I'd have it checked to be sure ! Good luck !
no, i wish it was the battery. we even swapped it out, too. new battery, new starter, new keys and key solinoid?
while it sat in the shop, the brake lines bursted and one of my tranny lines bursted, too. i knew the break lines were going, my mechanic told me the day i bought the car.
no, i wish it was the battery. we even swapped it out, too. new battery, new starter, new keys and key solinoid?
while it sat in the shop, the brake lines bursted and one of my tranny lines bursted, too. i knew the break lines were going, my mechanic told me the day i bought the car.
Tech II
04-01-2012, 10:24 AM
**UPDATE**
OK, spent some time on the firebird yesterday and after repeated attempts, the car DID NOT START. I then turned the ignition again, did not crank, waited 4 seconds and then cranked and still nothing.
the thing is the SECURITY light DID NOT TURN ON AT ALL each and everytime I tried to crank the engine.
finally, after about 5 attempts, the SECURITY light came on and it cranked over.
You still did not answer my question.....when the vehicle DID NOT START(are we talking cranking, and not starting, or not cranking at all?), did the SECURITY light come on for 5 seconds and then go out BEFORE you turned the key all the way to the crank position?
OK, spent some time on the firebird yesterday and after repeated attempts, the car DID NOT START. I then turned the ignition again, did not crank, waited 4 seconds and then cranked and still nothing.
the thing is the SECURITY light DID NOT TURN ON AT ALL each and everytime I tried to crank the engine.
finally, after about 5 attempts, the SECURITY light came on and it cranked over.
You still did not answer my question.....when the vehicle DID NOT START(are we talking cranking, and not starting, or not cranking at all?), did the SECURITY light come on for 5 seconds and then go out BEFORE you turned the key all the way to the crank position?
KENNY GUIDO
04-02-2012, 05:38 AM
**UPDATE**
OK, spent some time on the firebird yesterday and after repeated attempts, the car DID NOT START. I then turned the ignition again, did not crank, waited 4 seconds and then cranked and still nothing.
the thing is the SECURITY light DID NOT TURN ON AT ALL each and everytime I tried to crank the engine.
finally, after about 5 attempts, the SECURITY light came on and it cranked over.
You still did not answer my question.....when the vehicle DID NOT START(are we talking cranking, and not starting, or not cranking at all?), did the SECURITY light come on for 5 seconds and then go out BEFORE you turned the key all the way to the crank position?
everytime the car successfully started, the security light came on. went on for 5 seconds then shut off.
but everytime i unsuccessfully attempted to start it (engine/starter would not crank) the security light did not turn on at all. after repeated attempts the security light would come on and the engine would start.
OK, spent some time on the firebird yesterday and after repeated attempts, the car DID NOT START. I then turned the ignition again, did not crank, waited 4 seconds and then cranked and still nothing.
the thing is the SECURITY light DID NOT TURN ON AT ALL each and everytime I tried to crank the engine.
finally, after about 5 attempts, the SECURITY light came on and it cranked over.
You still did not answer my question.....when the vehicle DID NOT START(are we talking cranking, and not starting, or not cranking at all?), did the SECURITY light come on for 5 seconds and then go out BEFORE you turned the key all the way to the crank position?
everytime the car successfully started, the security light came on. went on for 5 seconds then shut off.
but everytime i unsuccessfully attempted to start it (engine/starter would not crank) the security light did not turn on at all. after repeated attempts the security light would come on and the engine would start.
KENNY GUIDO
04-07-2012, 10:36 AM
everytime the car successfully started, the security light came on. went on for 5 seconds then shut off.
but everytime i unsuccessfully attempted to start it (engine/starter would not crank) the security light did not turn on at all. after repeated attempts the security light would come on and the engine would start.
heres another video
but everytime i unsuccessfully attempted to start it (engine/starter would not crank) the security light did not turn on at all. after repeated attempts the security light would come on and the engine would start.
heres another video
KENNY GUIDO
04-07-2012, 05:33 PM
ok, heres the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKjk2KgZuJI&feature=plcp&context=C4440867VDvjVQa1PpcFP5-Ma4B-RgB0C6BrDhDKMIbjAkcp1MMso%3D
like i said, the "security light" does not come on when i put the key in and wait 5 seconds. you hear the chime going crazy and the lights flicker non stop. the power door locks do not work as well during this time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKjk2KgZuJI&feature=plcp&context=C4440867VDvjVQa1PpcFP5-Ma4B-RgB0C6BrDhDKMIbjAkcp1MMso%3D
like i said, the "security light" does not come on when i put the key in and wait 5 seconds. you hear the chime going crazy and the lights flicker non stop. the power door locks do not work as well during this time.
j cAT
04-08-2012, 10:02 AM
no, i wish it was the battery. we even swapped it out, too. new battery, new starter, new keys and key solinoid?
while it sat in the shop, the brake lines bursted and one of my tranny lines bursted, too. i knew the break lines were going, my mechanic told me the day i bought the car.
I would like you to measure all the keys resistors. post them here for review.
if the key[s] resistance is not correct the security lamp will not light for 5 sec when key is in the ignition on position ...no amber security light no fuel/starter etc...
how does brake lines and transmisson lines break at the same time ? transmission lines have very low pressure [bursting]?
while it sat in the shop, the brake lines bursted and one of my tranny lines bursted, too. i knew the break lines were going, my mechanic told me the day i bought the car.
I would like you to measure all the keys resistors. post them here for review.
if the key[s] resistance is not correct the security lamp will not light for 5 sec when key is in the ignition on position ...no amber security light no fuel/starter etc...
how does brake lines and transmisson lines break at the same time ? transmission lines have very low pressure [bursting]?
j cAT
04-08-2012, 10:25 AM
after you give the key resistances of all the keys then I will start the process of checking/replacing the theft deterent relay.
your vehicle is / has the PASS-KEY II SYSTEM .................. .
all the parts you replaced will not correct this.
I would also find a repair person that knows what he is doing. so far its all bad info he is putting out. he must not have the proper manuals to instruct him or he lacks the ability to understand electrical controls. this is quite common with electrical issues of vehicles .
your vehicle is / has the PASS-KEY II SYSTEM .................. .
all the parts you replaced will not correct this.
I would also find a repair person that knows what he is doing. so far its all bad info he is putting out. he must not have the proper manuals to instruct him or he lacks the ability to understand electrical controls. this is quite common with electrical issues of vehicles .
KENNY GUIDO
04-08-2012, 01:53 PM
I would like you to measure all the keys resistors. post them here for review.
if the key[s] resistance is not correct the security lamp will not light for 5 sec when key is in the ignition on position ...no amber security light no fuel/starter etc...
how does brake lines and transmisson lines break at the same time ? transmission lines have very low pressure [bursting]?
right now, the brake lines are down (they had rust when i bought the car and my mechanic told me years ago they would have to be replaced) and when it was at the mechanic's, they ruptured, sorta like how an elephant knows where to go when he dies! but before that, the brakes were excellent. the tranny line is a common thing that goes, as per my mechanic. its the line that actually comes off the radiator so thats not that bad of a fix. he said they go since theyre made of aluminum.
if the key[s] resistance is not correct the security lamp will not light for 5 sec when key is in the ignition on position ...no amber security light no fuel/starter etc...
how does brake lines and transmisson lines break at the same time ? transmission lines have very low pressure [bursting]?
right now, the brake lines are down (they had rust when i bought the car and my mechanic told me years ago they would have to be replaced) and when it was at the mechanic's, they ruptured, sorta like how an elephant knows where to go when he dies! but before that, the brakes were excellent. the tranny line is a common thing that goes, as per my mechanic. its the line that actually comes off the radiator so thats not that bad of a fix. he said they go since theyre made of aluminum.
KENNY GUIDO
05-08-2012, 09:32 AM
**UPDATE**
My mechanic and I spent hours looking for the security theft device and could not locate it but we did manage to get to the body control module which was behind the glove box and we bypassed it and the car started!!!! the flickering was still there with the interior light and the "beeping" but I was willing to deal with it.
well, I went back to my car today and now it doesnt start! you turn the key, its starts for a couple of seconds then the car bogs down and dies. ive tried repeated attempts but nothing. I also noticed my power door locks, interior lights and trunk release do not work, either. I checked the fuse on the drivers side and there is no power going to it whatsoever! im fucked!
My mechanic and I spent hours looking for the security theft device and could not locate it but we did manage to get to the body control module which was behind the glove box and we bypassed it and the car started!!!! the flickering was still there with the interior light and the "beeping" but I was willing to deal with it.
well, I went back to my car today and now it doesnt start! you turn the key, its starts for a couple of seconds then the car bogs down and dies. ive tried repeated attempts but nothing. I also noticed my power door locks, interior lights and trunk release do not work, either. I checked the fuse on the drivers side and there is no power going to it whatsoever! im fucked!
j cAT
05-08-2012, 12:35 PM
with the power lost to the fuse having a wiring diagram you can follow this back to where the open is. since it is always in the failed condition this should not be that difficult. you will need the proper diagrams for this to be done properly. If this is being done by someone else then they must have these wiring diagrams or you will never correctly have this fixed.
subscibe to ALLDATA AND you can get all this info. then either you or some electrical/electronic tech can track down the failure.
most mechanics have the nuts and bolts figured out . with electrical problems not so much !
subscibe to ALLDATA AND you can get all this info. then either you or some electrical/electronic tech can track down the failure.
most mechanics have the nuts and bolts figured out . with electrical problems not so much !
KENNY GUIDO
05-08-2012, 02:37 PM
with the power lost to the fuse having a wiring diagram you can follow this back to where the open is. since it is always in the failed condition this should not be that difficult. you will need the proper diagrams for this to be done properly. If this is being done by someone else then they must have these wiring diagrams or you will never correctly have this fixed.
subscibe to ALLDATA AND you can get all this info. then either you or some electrical/electronic tech can track down the failure.
most mechanics have the nuts and bolts figured out . with electrical problems not so much !
found this wire that was yanked from its socket:
subscibe to ALLDATA AND you can get all this info. then either you or some electrical/electronic tech can track down the failure.
most mechanics have the nuts and bolts figured out . with electrical problems not so much !
found this wire that was yanked from its socket:
j cAT
05-09-2012, 08:35 AM
found this wire that was yanked from its socket:
looks like lots of non OEM wiring . RATS NEST ! Now I understand the reason why this vehicle is so f 'd up.
wires need proper routing and security to be reliable . also wires added should be marked/labed to reveal the purpose.
the owner should have a diagram made by the installer of aftermarket equipment , so when the shit hits the fan a tech can repair.
looks like lots of non OEM wiring . RATS NEST ! Now I understand the reason why this vehicle is so f 'd up.
wires need proper routing and security to be reliable . also wires added should be marked/labed to reveal the purpose.
the owner should have a diagram made by the installer of aftermarket equipment , so when the shit hits the fan a tech can repair.
brcidd
05-09-2012, 08:59 AM
That wire out of socket is your Key resistance wire- put it back in (fix connection properly) no wonder your having issues..
KENNY GUIDO
05-09-2012, 04:32 PM
looks like lots of non OEM wiring . RATS NEST ! Now I understand the reason why this vehicle is so f 'd up.
wires need proper routing and security to be reliable . also wires added should be marked/labed to reveal the purpose.
the owner should have a diagram made by the installer of aftermarket equipment , so when the shit hits the fan a tech can repair.
the wiring on the left bottom corner is for the stereo/amps. I put those in myself.
wires need proper routing and security to be reliable . also wires added should be marked/labed to reveal the purpose.
the owner should have a diagram made by the installer of aftermarket equipment , so when the shit hits the fan a tech can repair.
the wiring on the left bottom corner is for the stereo/amps. I put those in myself.
KENNY GUIDO
05-09-2012, 04:33 PM
That wire out of socket is your Key resistance wire- put it back in (fix connection properly) no wonder your having issues..
thanks! i was just going to put a butt connector on it but my mechanic said dont touch it, he replace it. bet he just wants money out of me!:mad:
thanks! i was just going to put a butt connector on it but my mechanic said dont touch it, he replace it. bet he just wants money out of me!:mad:
KENNY GUIDO
05-23-2012, 06:23 PM
ok, after weeks of trouble shooting, we finally determined it was the body control module. it was located right behind the glove box. he has a 95 covertible in the yard and he went right to it to grab the BCM but it is not in the location as my 96. does anyone know where the BCM is in a 95 converitble?
KENNY GUIDO
05-25-2012, 02:24 PM
it works!!! my mechanic ordered a new bcm.....$300 from the dealer and it started right up! we thought we had to program it for the key but we didnt have to. I took pictures of the old bcm, it was bad because of the water (it was a flood recovery car) but I didnt know the water reached that high!
Tech II
05-26-2012, 10:50 AM
I took pictures of the old bcm, it was bad because of the water (it was a flood recovery car) but I didnt know the water reached that high!
And now we hear the rest of the story......
Do you know how many times cars came into our dealership with salvaged titles? The owner wouldn't touch them(had to laugh, some people would try to sneak them in under warranty, but as soon as you ran the VIN, you knew).......more often than not you had electrical problems all over the place due to corrosion not only in the harnesses, but to the modules they were connected to, grounds hid under carpets, etc....we would lose money trying to help customers, going crazy on labor times chasing electrical problems......after trying o help a few of them , we just sent them back to whoever sold them the car.....
And now we hear the rest of the story......
Do you know how many times cars came into our dealership with salvaged titles? The owner wouldn't touch them(had to laugh, some people would try to sneak them in under warranty, but as soon as you ran the VIN, you knew).......more often than not you had electrical problems all over the place due to corrosion not only in the harnesses, but to the modules they were connected to, grounds hid under carpets, etc....we would lose money trying to help customers, going crazy on labor times chasing electrical problems......after trying o help a few of them , we just sent them back to whoever sold them the car.....
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