Front locker notes

[Toy Man]

My ARB installer will not touch most
modified ARB's.

FSRBIKER in the Nissan 4x4 forum
mentioned that the Automotive Customerizer
ARB front locker involved a minor modification.

I emailed A/C and while their reply did not
state how it was modified, they did state
that ARB warranted their version.

I showed the A/C email to my installer.
He called ARB and they said:
Yes - ARB would warranty the A/C version
No - they did not know what changes where involved.
(other than they were not 'structural'.)
They would know about this time in July
(one on order?)

Based on the above, my installer said he
would install it.

I ordered it ($695) and it was installed today.
$300 for installation.

Slight chance I will be able to try it out
these weekend. If not, then the following
weekend pretty much for sure.

[OffroadX]

Good news. IIRC, there is a pin that AC shaves a small amount of material from, that's it. Don't quote me on that though.

There's a guy on the AC board with a Pathfinder that simply fused his front diff together rather than shell out the $ for a front locker. I've heard of doing this in the rear and I wouldn't even consider it, but ya know, for the front it doesn't sound too bad!

With free-running hubs, there is absolutely no difference on the street since the wheels can still rotate indepedantly in turns when unlocked. Of course, once you're in 4WD, you're always locked. The only drawback I know of there is that there is always the chance of increased stress on the axles even when you woudn't otherwise need the extra traction, but it shouldn't be much more risk than an auto-locker that can kick in at any time and load the axles the same anyway.

Yes, I know it isn't the best solution, but it seems to me a cheap way without much risk. Anyone else want to chime in, feel free.

Brent

[wilburburns]

Originally posted by OffroadX

Yes, I know it isn't the best solution, but it seems to me a cheap way without much risk. Anyone else want to chime in, feel free.

Brent

Well, Here's my take. I would be more likely to weld the rear diff before I would even consider welding the front.

Why you might ask. Have you ever tried to turn a locked front 4x4. It's a scary and tough chore when a locker is used that will allow slippage and will release. However, if the diff is welded, then it will never release. This is a problem for manual hubs as well as automatics. The manual hubs will bind and you will be unable to unlock them if needed to turn tightly. Automatic hubs just wouldnot unlock at all..

If you always wheel in open areas where tight turning is not required, then this might work for you. but imagine this: You are on a switchback where a 100+ ft dropoff is on 1 side, conditions won't allow you to drop back to 2wd and the welded diff up front will not allow you to make the turn...What do you do after cleaning up your seat after nearly driving off the edge...:frog:

The ARB is a good choice up front. Or some other limited slip or soft locker. Turning radius could be what keeps you from driving off the side of a mountain. That requires the front tires to spin at different rates...They guys I know with Detroit lockers in the front all have them setup for the trails they normally run. They are setup to turn better in one direction or the other...

But then again that's just my take..

Wilbur

[OffroadX]

Ah, good point. I knew there had to be a catch.
This is why the rock crawler guys have those custom rear e-brake setups so they can lock the inside rear wheel and pivot around on it, front locker be damned.

Brent

[an1malch1n]

Originally posted by OffroadX


There's a guy on the AC board with a Pathfinder that simply fused his front diff together rather than shell out the $ for a front locker. I've heard of doing this in the rear and I wouldn't even consider it, but ya know, for the front it doesn't sound too bad!

Hello X men! Well I thought I would chime in with my .02 cents on the welded locker deal. I wheel with Robby"cruisearound" and just got back from a week long Nissan run here in CO. Anyway that front locker is a really good idea if you don't have the bucks to add one yourself.
Most of the time he will travel in 2 lo with the fronts unlocked, hub, but when he needs extra traction he will only lock on side. Thus giving him "3 wheel drive" for max traction he will lock up both sides in the front when wheeling something that requires it. With only one side locked you can turn freely on the trail and still get traction.
He only has a lsd in the rear but he said he will probably get the ARB locker pretty soon for the rear, he wouldn't even consider welding the rear, especially with the amount of snow driving we do and the huge amount of stress that puts on your rear.
So imo I would definatley consider welding the front diff before I ever welded the rear, only if you have manual hubs and you can put up with getting in and out of your truck ALOT! I'm too lazy to do that so I will just get the front ARB soon.
Later.

[gothamist]

an1malch1n--cool stuff, thanks for the info on how that setup worked. You make it sound mighty tempting indeed, although again the issue of snow driving (esp. on the highway) comes to mind as the only reason I personally might not go that route. Have to see...

[an1malch1n]

Goth I agree with the snow issue. It definately could become one. Next time I go wheeling with him or email him I will be sure to ask how he deals with the snow.
BTW we both live in CO and the snow is definatley an issue for us also.

[warmonger]

For my two cents on the snow question. Snow and lockers go hand in hand in most cases. When they don't is when you factor in ice. Then they are not cool! You are better off with open diffs on ice. This is the reason I chose to go the ARB route. I go skiing several times a year in the winter and like to take my truck. Since some of the driving is on ice and some on snow, the ARBs give me the option of choosing what driveline I want to run. The locker comes in handy when I hit the unmaintained roads to go cross-country skiing or snowshoeing. Otherwise I leave them open.

[ScottG]

Originally posted by an1malch1n


Most of the time he will travel in 2 lo with the fronts unlocked, hub, but when he needs extra traction he will only lock one side. Thus giving him "3 wheel drive" for max traction he will lock up both sides in the front when wheeling something that requires it. With only one side locked you can turn freely on the trail and still get traction.

I met a guy the other day with a Jeep CJ that had the same setup. He said the front diff was welded and when I asked about difficulty steering, he said that he just locked one of the hubs. I had never heard of anyone doing that. I guess it makes sense though.

[Lance]

I have read two separate tests where front only lockered jeeps were compared to rear only and fully lockered jeeps.

Both reports found that a front lockered jeep will out perform a rear lockered jeep, albeit a fully locked jeep outperforms both.

The tests all involved jeeps, but I think the principle should be analogous to X's. This means that an ARB front locker might be the better choice than a rear, if you could only have one.

The primary finding was that going up hill, most of the weight is on the rear tires...so traction is abundant, even if only one tire is pushing...but the more lightly weighted fronts are typically scrabbling for traction...and locking them provides a larger overall traction boost. On rock hopping...being able to claw over an obstacle with the fronts, instead of bumping and gunning the rears, etc...was more productive as well. Throw in the typical availability of standard rear LSD's anyway...and the front locker choice makes a lot of sense.

Just thought I'd throw this out there in case anyone with front /rear/open set-up want to do an X specific version of this test, so the rest of us can learn from your Xperiment.


- Lance

[ScottG]

Originally posted by Lance
I have read two separate tests where front only lockered jeeps were compared to rear only and fully lockered jeeps.

Both reports found that a front lockered jeep will out perform a rear lockered jeep, albeit a fully locked jeep outperforms both.

I have always heard that the opposite is true????? That a locker is more important in the rear than the front. I have a CJ5 with a Detroit in the rear, open in the front.

[gothamist]

Originally posted by Lance
The primary finding was that going up hill, most of the weight is on the rear tires...so traction is abundant, even if only one tire is pushing...

Umm...if you're not locked already, how are you going to have only one tire pushing?

[Lance]

Actually...if you are locked you'll have two tires pushing... you'll only have one tire pushing if you are not locked. (The locking makes the two turn together)

The open diff units sadly power the tire with the least torque, a bass ackwards design if I ever saw one.

- Lance

[gothamist]

Originally posted by Lance
Actually...if you are locked you'll have two tires pushing... you'll only have one tire pushing if you are not locked. (The locking makes the two turn together)

The open diff units sadly power the tire with the least torque, a bass ackwards design if I ever saw one.

- Lance

Boy, you must think everyone on this board is a real idiot, huh?

Maybe at some point you'll stop posting the obvious over and over.

My point is, if you're not locked, you're NOT going to have "one tire pushing." You're going to have one tire spinning, OR both will have some traction.

[ScottG]

Originally posted by gothamist


Boy, you must think everyone on this board is a real idiot, huh?

Maybe at some point you'll stop posting the obvious over and over.

My point is, if you're not locked, you're NOT going to have "one tire pushing." You're going to have one tire spinning, OR both will have some traction.

To be honest, I wasn't following what you were trying to say either.