Body and subframe separation fix: Insulators WHERE?

[searcherrr]

Known problem spots on Windstar:
Engine noise: A clunk heard and/or felt from the floor on acceleration, deceleration, or turns is caused by movement between the body and subframe, which is corrected by installing revised insulators. (1995-96)

That comes from consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com

Since it does not really go much into detail..... what are the revised insulators? What are they called EXACTLY or NEAR EXACTLY in the Ford parts catalog? Where are they on the vehicle?

If I'm going to get all this work done to my 95 GL I need to know how to estimate everything so its done right and I'm pretty sure I've heard this CLUNK sound repeatedly while driving. Has anyone performed this fix on their 95 - 96 Windstar?

When I had my tranny rebuilt they replaced the front and rear engine mounts..... but I am not sure these are the insulators the consumerguide review was speaking of.

[searcherrr]

Just called Ford and they said its this:
1 on each side - Front & Rear BODY MOUNTS
Part # 5C148

The only thing is though when I look that up on motorcraft.com or on google I get absolute ZIP !!!! Does anyone have a diagram of where the van body and subframe meet up?

EDIT: 5C148
I called another Ford dealership (one that would actually take time to talk to me) and got this information:
There are 2 qty of these body mounts:
Upper $14.88
Lower $23.90
*Have to call Ford to order as the part# doesn't seem to be available anywhere else.
*Still I have no idea where these go, but at least I know they are body to subframe mounts.

[busboy4]

Hi
I have changed them on my '96 3.8L. There are 4, for a total of 8 parts: upper and lower at 4 points, 2 front, 2 rear. I have always called them subframe bushings. Changing them did indeed fix the clunk felt in the floor on start and stop. Now, there is also the clunking caused by the strut rod bushings at the front frame crossmember, so make sure before you purchase parts. I had the strut rod bushing problem and discussed it in the following thread.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=703285

Good luck

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by busboy4

Hi
I have changed them on my '96 3.8L. There are 4, for a total of 8 parts: upper and lower at 4 points, 2 front, 2 rear. I have always called them subframe bushings. Changing them did indeed fix the clunk felt in the floor on start and stop. Now, there is also the clunking caused by the strut rod bushings at the front frame crossmember, so make sure before you purchase parts. I had the strut rod bushing problem and discussed it in the following thread.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=703285

Good luck

Thanks so much for this info. I knew it didn't make sense to me that there'd only be 2 of them and anytime I ask Ford about it they act like they're talking to a 2 year old child who can't comprehend and usually cause they don't even want to try and explain... so is there 4 parts in each set??? 4 in upper and 4 in lower???? Do you still have the part numbers? Was it the same as mine?

[searcherrr]

busboy4 - The last two links in that post don't work anymore. Do you recall what they went to?

[busboy4]

Here you go:
This is from Fordpartsonline.com. If you are going to order online I like y2kford.com. They will be on the "trademotion" web too but I have dealt with them and they are good to work with. You will want 4 each of item 2 & 3 in the diagram.

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...=3&catalogid=2

[busboy4]

Originally Posted by searcherrr

busboy4 - The last two links in that post don't work anymore. Do you recall what they went to?

Hi
I think it was the Moog rubber bushing kit that I bought from rockauto to go with the screw in bushing replacements. The other link was to a Moog information booklet about the kits that showed a diagram of the parts and how they are used. Nice to look at, but it would be intuitive to most to see how the new bushings go in the frame. I have looked and Moog does not seem to web host those pamphlets anymore.

Best regards.

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by busboy4

Hi
I think it was the Moog rubber bushing kit that I bought from rockauto to go with the screw in bushing replacements. The other link was to a Moog information booklet about the kits that showed a diagram of the parts and how they are used. Nice to look at, but it would be intuitive to most to see how the new bushings go in the frame. I have looked and Moog does not seem to web host those pamphlets anymore.

Best regards.

Is this a 1 man job? how long did this take you? Is accessing the body/subframe mount bushings easy? Is there a procedure to follow somewhere? Where do I jack up the body from the subframe? Thanks for all your help man!

[busboy4]

Originally Posted by searcherrr

Is this a 1 man job? how long did this take you? Is accessing the body/subframe mount bushings easy? Is there a procedure to follow somewhere? Where do I jack up the body from the subframe? Thanks for all your help man!

Hi
Yes I did it myself. It has been a while so my memory may be a bit shady. However, I put the van on ramps, and then used my floor jack to support the subframe as I changed the bushings. It is no big deal to pull the single bolt at the attachment point(s). The larger problem as I recall, was to get enough "sag" in the subframe to be able to maneuver the old bushing out (the top portion) and the new one in. As I recall I at times loosened the adjacent bolt (front or back) such that the subframe moved enough to have the space i.e. with the left rear bolt completely out, I might have had to back off the right rear to lower the overall frame enough to get the bushing out. Of course I never had more than one bolt completely out at a time.

A Ford mechanic was in the parts shop when I picked up the parts. He suggested that I grease the flat surface (you will see it) on the bushing where the top half meets the bottom as there has to be a bit of give and take. I have also gone back and re-greased now and again if I am hearing much noise.

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by busboy4

Hi
Yes I did it myself. It has been a while so my memory may be a bit shady. However, I put the van on ramps, and then used my floor jack to support the subframe as I changed the bushings. It is no big deal to pull the single bolt at the attachment point(s). The larger problem as I recall, was to get enough "sag" in the subframe to be able to maneuver the old bushing out (the top portion) and the new one in. As I recall I at times loosened the adjacent bolt (front or back) such that the subframe moved enough to have the space i.e. with the left rear bolt completely out, I might have had to back off the right rear to lower the overall frame enough to get the bushing out. Of course I never had more than one bolt completely out at a time.

A Ford mechanic was in the parts shop when I picked up the parts. He suggested that I grease the flat surface (you will see it) on the bushing where the top half meets the bottom as there has to be a bit of give and take. I have also gone back and re-greased now and again if I am hearing much noise.

Thanks man. Thats great information. I really appreciate it. I guess I'm just leary about detaching the van body from the subframe and don't really understand where I'd place the jack to lift the van body off of the subframe. When you say you used ramps..... you mean you used 4 ramps? or just 2? 2 would seem odd.

[busboy4]

Originally Posted by searcherrr

Thanks man. Thats great information. I really appreciate it. I guess I'm just leary about detaching the van body from the subframe and don't really understand where I'd place the jack to lift the van body off of the subframe. When you say you used ramps..... you mean you used 4 ramps? or just 2? 2 would seem odd.

Hi
No just two ramps under the front wheels. The engine and tranny sit on the subframe which hangs under the main frame held by the four bolts and insulators (obviously the engine and tranny mounts are also supporting). So, if you raise the van, you can then use the jack under the subframe near one of the 4 bolts to support it, remove the bolt and then gently lower the jack, which will allow the subframe to lower away from the main frame. Then you change out the insulator at that point, jack the subframe back up and re- install the bolt. You work one of the 4 bolts at a time, keeping in mind you may need to loosen an adjacent bolt somewhat to gain a little more clearance, but only one bolt completely out at a time.

OK? Hope that makes sense.

[searcherrr]

Just to finish this thread off right since there is so little information around about this issue here's the final scoop.

They can be called:
1. Subframe to body bushings
2. Engine cradle bushings
3. Crossmember bushings
4. Subframe insulators
5. Front suspension , Suspension mounting ,Absorber ,Upper and/or Lower

#5 is what is the DRILL down to how you'd find them WITHOUT a Part Number on most of the online Ford OEM parts web sites. 1 - 4 is usually what people will CALL them and on only 1 Ford OEM web site I saw them simply being called "INSULATOR". HOW F'IN VAGUE AYE? I tell ya what... when it comes to a part the inventory person doesn't like or doesn't get replaced a whole lot they suddenly lose their creative ability to name these things properly.

When I called my nearby dealership they quickly barked the part number 5C148 at me..... whereas this is the MIDDLE of the PART# aka DEALER lingo.... which of course they can't figure out a customer calling isn't really going to know unless its their way of KEEPING parts ordering business in their own shop...... Who knows, but without further adue the part numbers for the UPPER and LOWER crossmember bushings for stabilizing/holding the body to the subframe are:

F68Z5C148AA INSULATOR upper (You need 4 qty of these)
F58Z5C148AB INSULATOR lower (You need 4 qty of these)

I will not be doing the job on my own. I'm gonna let the shop do it while they install my engine.

Hope this helps others cause I would say everyone with a 95-96 should have this done.

[C. Cleve]

Hi, I am very surprised that no one has even mentioned, ENGINE MOUNTS!!!!, Do your self a BIG favor and check them out......Good Luck, Clay...

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by C. Cleve

Hi, I am very surprised that no one has even mentioned, ENGINE MOUNTS!!!!, Do your self a BIG favor and check them out......Good Luck, Clay...

It may have been because somewhere on here i think i said my engine mounts are new. I had them replaced when the tranny was rebuilt in the end of 05. GOOD CALL THOUGH FOR OTHERS..... cause this should be done at the same time I think.