The Fastest and Furious Windstars :)

[searcherrr]

Only the 3.8L's figured:

1995
3 Door Version 3800lbs / 155 hp
power to weight ratio (horsepowerounds) = 0.040789473684211
ET: 16.92 seconds to 1/4 mile

1996-1998
3 Door Version 3800lbs / 200 hp
power to weight ratio (horsepowerounds) = 0.052631578947368
ET: 15.54 seconds to 1/4 mile

1999 - 2003
3 Door Version 3890lbs / 200 hp
power to weight ratio (horsepowerounds) = 0.051413881748072
ET: 15.66 seconds to 1/4 mile

4 Door Version 4194lbs / 200 hp
power to weight ratio (horsepowerounds) = 0.047687172150691
ET: 16.06 seconds to 1/4 mile


I used some online horsepower and 1/4 mile calculators to figure out the above:
http://www.ajdesigner.com/fl_horsepo...apsed_time.php
http://www.tunercalcs.com/

I don't know of any 3 door 99 - 03's ...... do ya'll? I thought all 99 and above were all 4 doors? In any case it is obvious the 3 door models are the lightest and fastest of the bunches. 304 lbs more weight in the 4 door models is something. Its curious to me that the slowest model is the 95... I mean it makes math sense n all, but I swear my 95 GL seems faster than the 2000 and 2003 model I test drove. Looks though like the cream of the crop are the 96 - 98 models for speed and any 99-2003 model with 3 doors being 2nd which were still available in 99 - 2001.

If I keep my 95 I'm thinking of upgrading the exhaust. I don't know what else I could do though to get more HP out of it. I have a K&N filter in it and I know how to get more HP on other vehicle platforms, but since not than many think about PIMPING their minivans there isn't too much available for Windstar in the way of performance improvements.... seems like most things would have to be custom done.

I guess too I am bugged by the IMRC not kicking in until around 2900 RPMs in the 96-2003 models. This to me says I don't make use of all the HP I have until the RPMs reach that point which may explain why I feel my 95 GL getting off the line quicker than the newer heavier 4 door models 1999+. Does that sound right?

[rodeo02]

I'm not used to seeing a windstar being talked about in this context! I've always thought our 2001 was actually pretty powerful. Of course they are not rev happy, and the AX4S /N transaxle is the weak link. Down low these vans have pretty good grunt. The Chrysler 3.8L in the Town & Country also feels similar. I've never driven a Honda ody, but I've heard they are fast/powerful. The DOHC engine Toyota, Honda and Nissan vans list their high HP ratings at high RPMs, way above a useful driving range IMO.

Joel

[wiswind]

In 1996, the 3.8L, 200hp engine was the most powerful engine in any minivan.
Since then, a few others have come up in the hp department.
As Rodeo mentioned, boosting the power of the engine puts more stress on the transmission.....as well as the rest of the parts, inside the engine, and the drivetrain.

One thing that I thought of to boost power on my '96, but have not done, is to modify the air intake, the part that connects to the fender.
I don't know what the one on your '95 is like, so I don't know if this would exactly apply.
The air filter on mine is inside a black "bullet" that also contains the MAF.
The side that has the air filter is the part that has the air intake that connects to the inner fender.
This is a narrow point for the air to enter.......and my thought was to modify it so that it had a larger opening for air to come in.
However, that would need a bigger hole in the inner fender, or some other modification.
In other words.....the system already has a "cold air" intake, in that it is pulling cooler air in......and not the warmer air from the engine compartment.
Pulling air through the fender reduces the amount of moisture that would be drawn in from a air intake behind the grill.
FORD tried a couple of locations in front......behind the headlight, etc
The fender seems to have worked well, better than the up front locations used in the past.
The advantage to your K&N filter is less resistance to airflow.
However most air filter BOXES, the housing for the air filter, cause more resistance to airflow than the air filter.
One has be be careful about modifying things.......as.....one can cause more problems than they solve.
Trying to follow race car ideas can be a mistake, as race cars don't run in wet conditions.

One other thing to note about using a oiled air filter, such as K&N, is that one must be careful about the re-oil process.
Too little oil results in too much dirt getting through the filter.
Too much oil results in a oil film on the sensors in the MAF, which causes it to malfunction.

But, again, reliability is much more important than accelleration.
The race car has a team of mechanics standing by to fiddle with anything that is slightly off......and the engine is torn down at the end of each race.

One place you might look into, if they have one near you, is CarMax.
They have a return guaranty if you find something wrong with the vehicle within a certain period of time.
I recall a few years ago.....don't remember if it was on this forum or the old Cartrackers forum, but someone was asking advice for a problem with their newly purchased windstar's tranny.
I think I advised them to go back to Car Max before messing with the problem on their own.
They posted a couple days later, "never mind, Car Max took it back and gave us another one".
Which, if you stop and think about it, is a smart way to do business.

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by rodeo02

I'm not used to seeing a windstar being talked about in this context! I've always thought our 2001 was actually pretty powerful. Of course they are not rev happy, and the AX4S /N transaxle is the weak link. Down low these vans have pretty good grunt. The Chrysler 3.8L in the Town & Country also feels similar. I've never driven a Honda ody, but I've heard they are fast/powerful. The DOHC engine Toyota, Honda and Nissan vans list their high HP ratings at high RPMs, way above a useful driving range IMO.

Joel

LOLLLLLLLL ha haaaaaa..... I KNOW I KNOW.... but I grew up with sports cars and I'm always into "good power/pickup" - Its just in my blood and I feel like even a van should respond fairly decent on throttle pedal depress.

I'd love to be able to afford such an animal like the Odyssey, Sienna, or Town & Country, but even though I've posted what I've spent on my 95 Windstar in the past 3.5 years it was OVER the course of 3.5 years and it was manageable in that way. When I was out recently looking at those other vans (just for kicks) too they were all maintaining their HIGH PRICE RANGE 15k+ even after 50k miles.... and some were 20k+ with less miles. REDICULOUS.... but whatever. I'm sticking with the Windstar line as long as I can and I'm not sure I'll ever go to Freestar. I read you have to drop the fuel tank to replace the fuel pump on Freestars.... so I wonder what else is that stupid on it.

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by wiswind

In 1996, the 3.8L, 200hp engine was the most powerful engine in any minivan.
Since then, a few others have come up in the hp department.
As Rodeo mentioned, boosting the power of the engine puts more stress on the transmission.....as well as the rest of the parts, inside the engine, and the drivetrain.

One thing that I thought of to boost power on my '96, but have not done, is to modify the air intake, the part that connects to the fender.
I don't know what the one on your '95 is like, so I don't know if this would exactly apply.
The air filter on mine is inside a black "bullet" that also contains the MAF.
The side that has the air filter is the part that has the air intake that connects to the inner fender.

<.....truncated......>

Which, if you stop and think about it, is a smart way to do business.

Its funny that you mentioned this cause i was just thinking about my 95 already having a cold air intake tonight. Mine goes down into the fender well too. I have no idea where it comes out though. I guess its between the fender well border and the engine bay border.

I hear ya on everything especially the oil recharge on the K&N. I read about that a while back too and when I do things I'm always slow go because I'm pretty damn meticulous about how I do them. So whenever it comes time to recharge the K&N I'll be making sure I put the exact amount of oil needed in the proper spread required....... OR I may even go back to a paper filter later.... who knows. I just wish there was an alternative between the paper and the K&N that was better flow than paper and didn't require oil maintenance like the K&N.

As far as upgrades for power go since I have the 95 GL I figure I can stand to upgrade for more HP since every other model has 200 HP and I'm by default 40 - 45HP less than all of ya'll. Whats cool is that I'm documenting everything so I might even make a Windstar Mods thread when I'm done if everything works well and fits right.

I have been tracking down engines to verify that the 95 year is a step child year engine and the most noticeable differences I've seen in the cars sharing the base engine was them either being EFI or SFI. Our windstars are SFI and since my 95 year is out on its own and I knew other cars shared this engine I looked for which ones were EFI vs SFI. Using various parts web sites and scrutinizing part #'s and pictures I've been able to determine that my 95 SFI engine year shares nearly everything with the 1995 3.8L 232 CID Ford Mustang. The IAC and TPS on the TB are SHAPED differently likely due to engine compartment space being different, but both of their orifice connection points and electrical connection points are the same. Tensioner pulleys on these engines however list different part #'s, but are very close on visual inspection so you have to be careful with what you are looking at. The reason I wanted to make this distinction is because NEARLY NO ONE LISTS UPGRADE MODS FOR GAINING POWER FOR A FORD WINDSTAR !!! LOL - BIG LOL. So if I look up mods for a 1995 3.8L 232 CID Ford Mustang engine chances are they will also work on my 95 3.8L 232 CID GL. FYI - Another difference I noticed on the two engines is that the Windstar has an ENGINE temperature sensor and a coolant temp sensor and the Mustang I mention only has a coolant temp sensor. I imagine if I looked for this it would amount to a bolt hole either there or missing or used/not used.

CARMAX - WOW!! What a story..... and YES that is SMART BUSINESS. That is exactly what the damn dealerships should do cause it would eliminate nearly ALL bad feedback about them and keep the BBB reports from piling up. I checked though and the nearest to me would be a Mississippi Carmax and it isn't opening till Dec 22nd. I wasn't planning on staying here that long, but who knows.... maybe I will be here. Honestly for all the hatred Wal-Mart receives they make it easy for the customer to shop at discounted rates and return stuff and the reason for they can do this is cause they are nationwide. I like the idea of this similar type of setup with a Car Dealership.

[garync1]

Ok You posted it so i will add what I did.. Just don't tell Nobody.. LOL
I have a few types of scan tools I also have one that takes out the speed and rpm limits.. Well My Windstar has seen 125 mph with me in it only, on I95 So if you think these thing are slow they do have top end.. That was faster than my 1979 RX7. I had it top out a 120 and would not do more. I felt like I could go faster in the Windstar but I was getting up on traffic really quick. So I let up. I do say It ran smooth. I thought it would shake or something. Not to interested on doing this again. Don't won't do end up in jail.. I did this about 6 months back.. ALSO note now I have a shudder problem so keep than in mind on mods. But was nice to see a $9,000 van run down a 55,000 vett. And keep on going. Not to say he could not run me down. He most likely had better since... LOL Don't tell no one... LOL

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by garync1

Ok You posted it so i will add what I did.. Just don't tell Nobody.. LOL
I have a few types of scan tools I also have one that takes out the speed and rpm limits.. Well My Windstar has seen 125 mph with me in it only, on I95 So if you think these thing are slow they do have top end.. That was faster than my 1979 RX7. I had it top out a 120 and would not do more. I felt like I could go faster in the Windstar but I was getting up on traffic really quick. So I let up. I do say It ran smooth. I thought it would shake or something. Not to interested on doing this again. Don't won't do end up in jail.. I did this about 6 months back.. ALSO note now I have a shudder problem so keep than in mind on mods. But was nice to see a $9,000 van run down a 55,000 vett. And keep on going. Not to say he could not run me down. He most likely had better since... LOL Don't tell no one... LOL

I LOVE IT !!!!!! HA HAAAAAA !!!!!

[searcherrr]

Also wanted to state more obvious stuff like:

1995 - 1998 Windstars were stating they'd get 17/24 mpg. ConsumerGuide observed 15.9 mpg.

1999 - 2003 Windstars were stating they'd get 17/23 mpg. ConsumerGuide observed 14.8 mpg.


You'd assume they did the test with the same or near same body weight person in the vehicle. If you calculate this to a 26 gallon tank (the 3.8L's tanks) you come up with nearly 30 miles BETTER on gas mileage for the 95-98's. Although I'm sure some mods could bring the newer Windstars back to that gas savings it had before, but still thats kinda damn silly if you ask me. I think I'm more and more talking myself into rebuilding my 95 GL and starting off where the gas mileage is already BETTER.

It really doesn't make much sense to me that Ford would increase the available horsepower from 96 on up.... but then add weight at the same time. I guess they needed reinforced steel or something for the "hole in the middle" shaped design the 4-door frames became.

[searcherrr]

So guess what I learned today? Do you think its possible that a good shop owner/tech/mechanic can be an expert at fixing things to OEM spec, but wouldn't know much about putting mods on a vehicle to add power?

I was trying to talk to my trusted shop guys (mind you I went in there with 20 minutes left in their day which I was debating on doing cause I had a long list of things I wanted them to do in the next few days if I decide to get a reman engine) about what I'd like them to do as they would undertake installing the new engine and what I didn't realize even though I thought I was kinda "tight" with them is that people at a place of business don't even want to discuss anything like that for a minute..... they just want the work orders and to go do it.

Anyway, in the few moments I spent there the guy advised me against putting a wider/better performance exhaust and high flow cat and wide CFM throttle body on my Windstar cause he says I'll hardly notice a difference in power or gas mileage cause the engine just IS what it IS. I realize this engine is a 1 year engine and that there are limited mods out there to apply to it, but the conversation I had with him seemed to contradict what I've learned about increasing horsepower/performance which is simply...... INCREASE RATE of AIR FLOW, INCREASE VOLUME of AIR FLOW, and DECREASE intake air temp and you get MORE POWER. While I already have a form of cold air intake on my Windstar thats not up for discussion, but the Throttle Body, High Flow Cat setup, and Better exhaust SHOULD produce more power NO MATTER WHAT TYPE OF ENGINE IT GOES ON RIGHT???????? Why does this seem like its an engine that has a stubborn mind of its own or something? The other day I asked someone in email about it and they said simply that it was hard to make more power out of a 3.8L.... but again citing what I've said wouldn't that provide more power? I don't really care if I notice I've gained 20 - 40hp more.... but just as long as I DO. Sure it would be nice to "feel" the results, but thats not entirely what I'm looking for. I just want to gain maybe 20 - 40hp more and a lil more torque and it just seems logical to me cause you can do this on any other vehicle and get power that it should work. Am I missing something stupid here? I mean why do bigger bored out Throttle Bodies, Bigger smoother straighter exhausts, and high flow cats advertise HP gain ranges if they'd be completely FALSE????? I know the world is greedy for money, but I also know people buy up these things like mad to make more power on other platforms...... sooooo..... again..... am I in the twilight zone here?

I was wondering though if this just meant the guy was just trying to get out of doing anything extra than the engine itself cause it is quite a bitch to install.

[BlueCaprice]

You are right in that all those things you mentioned should cause some sort of power gains, however, different engines will respond differently to different mods which can make troubleshooting a modded engine a little more difficult sometimes. I think thats why mechanics don't like adding mods, but thats just speculation. Your vehicle is a 95 correct? Maybe it might be possible to use a Split Port Induction top end? It would probably be involved but I know the mustangs were doing it. That'd be a nice power increase. Years ago I had an 88 cougar with the 3.8l V6. A buddy of mine had mentioned that the only thing that seperated this block from the 4.2l in the F150 was the crank. I wonder if it might be possible to use that crank in a Windstar.

If your looking for some big mods you could check out Tom Morana V6 Racing. They specialize in mustang parts but I'd imagine the parts are probably similar enough for the Windstar. Just be aware, the transaxles in these vans suck!

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by BlueCaprice

You are right in that all those things you mentioned should cause some sort of power gains, however, different engines will respond differently to different mods which can make troubleshooting a modded engine a little more difficult sometimes. I think thats why mechanics don't like adding mods, but thats just speculation. Your vehicle is a 95 correct? Maybe it might be possible to use a Split Port Induction top end? It would probably be involved but I know the mustangs were doing it. That'd be a nice power increase. Years ago I had an 88 cougar with the 3.8l V6. A buddy of mine had mentioned that the only thing that seperated this block from the 4.2l in the F150 was the crank. I wonder if it might be possible to use that crank in a Windstar.

If your looking for some big mods you could check out Tom Morana V6 Racing. They specialize in mustang parts but I'd imagine the parts are probably similar enough for the Windstar. Just be aware, the transaxles in these vans suck!

My 95 Windstar engine is nearly identical to the 95 3.8 232 CID SFI Mustang engine. I've looked this over fairly well and so far all I see that isn't the same (but is close) is the tensioner pulley.

By Split Port Induction are you talking about the IMRC (intake manifold runner control) thing? I know for a fact that coolant passages were redesigned after 95 on the 3.8L although I don't know if that is primarily in the intake area only or if its part of the block itself as far as the redesign goes. I believe you'd have to swap out the engine harness wiring and ECM too... perhaps even the PCM (hope I'm right about there being an engine computer and separate tranny computer, but if not you know what I mean).

Thanks for the Morana link. I found that earlier. I saw some stuff I could get, but it really is stuff if you are about making some serious engine mods. I don't have the time to do it myself or the money to pay someone to install that good stuff.

Thanks for confirming that I'd see SOME gains though. I thought I would, but wondered if I was missing some magical bad info about the 3.8L. I'm aware of the transaxle issues and I've decided I'm going to install a 20,000lbs rated tranny cooler to hopefully compensate for any newly made power and just in general to seriously help out with towing. My tranny is rebuilt too.

[garync1]

Now I will say this. There are many mods you can add that involve rebuilding the engine that I know can be done on the 3.8 . If your engine block is good you can use it.. For bore making the piston larger and port polish heads. Custom cam for for the valve train. PCm universal programmer for adjusting the timing and fuel mixture. But it will take a lot of research. The trans is what bothers me the most. You have a Taurus trans pushing a van more like a truck in weight. At least With the real wheel drive Aerostar you have a little more options as far a trans. Windstars are limited to 1 type of trans and thats the weak part..And yes you could add turbo or supercharger. Again is it worth the money? most likely not, but it would be fun I am sure. Again it would take a lot of research and money to do this. But anything possible.. Its not hard to create horsepower it takes $$$$$$$$$..

[wiswind]

For information on the FORD 3.8L, another member posted this link, which I have saved for reference.

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar90134.htm

I would not look so much at a bigger throttle body bore......as, right now.....the air intake hole is smaller than the throttle body hole (with the accellerator floored).

Another note,
I read the Wide Open Throttle (WOT) shift points for the windstar tranny (1996), and the shift from 3rd to 4th is at about 100mph.
However, the suspension, steering, tires, etc are not set up for high speed operation.

The other thing that will happen, as you boost horse power, your fuel economy will go into the trash......as your enjoyment of the extra boost, will have you operating outside of the most fuel efficient mode of operation.

Now, as far as modifications go?....there is very little that you can do to increase fuel economy of a well tuned engine, outside of driving habits and conditions (hard to get good fuel economy sitting in stop and go traffic).
The computer does a great job of maintaining that ideal air / fuel ratio.
The way it works (at least on the windstar), the computer measures the amount of air passing through the MAF.
This data ( along with a bunch of other information) is used by the computer to determine how much fuel fuel to spray into the cylinder with each fuel injector squirt (times 6 for 6 cylinders).
The upstream oxygen sensors tell the computer how well it is doing with the mix.....and the computer fine tunes the spray as needed.
So what maximum fuel economy you have.....is pretty much what you have.
No turbulator or other gadget in the intake is going to improve the fuel economy.
The K&N air filter claims to boost horse power by reducing the resistance to air flow.
However, again, with a well tuned engine, it will not do much for fuel economy over a clean OEM type paper filter.
Not that the K&N is a bad filter, and it would likely boost fuel economy on a carborated engine, but not so much on a fuel injected engine.
However, more air into the engine, will....up to a reasonable point.....boost horse power (which is what turbochargers and superchargers are doing).

Your local mechanics have built a business on maintaining and repairing vehciles.
Once they start modifying an engine, they open a whole can of worms.......that can end up with an unhappy customer.
They do something to boost the power, and something goes wrong......who pays to straighten it out?
A FORD dealership has even tighter limitations, as they can become liable for modifications outside of FORD specifications.....as they represent FORD Motor Company.

[pitteach]

My 2 pennies here. I did see a '00 or '01 windstar with a 3.8 and supercharger on ebay a few months ago. Looked pretty slick.

[searcherrr]

WOW wiswind - that babcox link was amazing ! I even got to see/read about the head gasket issue on my year van!!!

I don't understand what you meant by the last tranny shift point being at 100mph??? Do you mean I don't make use of 4th gear till then? I really am confused by that cause I know I'm making use of my 4th gear cause when I'm at 70mph and I turn off OD it downshifts and revs UP.

I have been doing a lot of reading and ya'lls information is helping. I don't see how my MPG would go to the trash if I boost engine performance. Usually this is a good thing for MPG and I wouldn't be driving it like mad all the time which I would figure would be the main factor in gas mileage..... I mean if I do manage to get her up to 200 - 200 hp I can't see how that would be that much worse MPG since the later Windstars make 200hp as it is. What am I missing there?

WOW - So someone did do a Windstar with a Supercharger.... here I thought I'd be the first. I wish I could see pictures of that. Currently I am stuck on the throttle body issue where the lever is the reverse of the Mustang setup (ours pulls from the bottom; at least on my 95 GL it does and not the top like the Mustang).