Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

harumman · 12-28-2004, 08:41 AM

Persistence pays off. After go back and forth with Ford and the dealer on doing the TSB # 03-16-1 repair on my 99 3.8L Windstar, Ford finally agreed yesterday to cover 80% of the cost of the repair. Both Labor and Parts.
I had all the documentation that I had brought the Van in for service several times under Warrenty with the spark knock problem. They actually did TSB # 00-21-8. That TSB includes the first 4 steps of the 03-16-1 TSB. Basically changing the Valve Cover and vacuum line and reprogramming the PCM.
If you have this problem don't give up hope that Ford will finally step to the plate and help pay for the repair for you.

PS
I see on this new TSB that it supersedes TSB numbers 03-4-7 and 00-21-8. I have #00-21-8. Does anyone have access to 03-4-7?

12Ounce · 12-28-2004, 11:19 AM

Congratulations on your success with Ford. You had the two key requirements:
1.Persistance
2.DOCUMENTATION...In my mind, the most important... and the least understood.

DRW1000 · 12-28-2004, 11:51 AM

To paraphrase 12Ounce a bit:

"Knowledge is power". Don't be afraid to let them know what you know.

I also find that Ford dealers all have different policies. I have a dealership near myself that always quotes list price on all parts. Since I live in a big metropolitan area there are several Ford stores. There is one that I know of that will give a better price on parts than list without me even having to ask.

jimmundo · 12-28-2004, 02:42 PM

I was curious how much your total bill was (of which they covered 80%)? I have exactly the same problem and have even read the TSB myself. My local dealer today quoted me $1200 to do the repairs! I don't even need the new valve cover. I was too shocked to argue.

harumman · 12-28-2004, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmundo

I was curious how much your total bill was (of which they covered 80%)? I have exactly the same problem and have even read the TSB myself. My local dealer today quoted me $1200 to do the repairs! I don't even need the new valve cover. I was too shocked to argue.

I am having the work done tomorrow so I will post some specifics tomorrow evening or as soon as I can.

harumman · 12-29-2004, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harumman

I am having the work done tomorrow so I will post some specifics tomorrow evening or as soon as I can.

What a surprise. They did the entire TSB 03-16-1. Ford agreed to cover 80% of the repair and I was surprised at how low the bill was. I think they just charged wholsale for the parts as I got quote yesterday for the Isolator bolts at $10.63 each x 8 and they charged just $6.77 each this morning. The Seals were $2.17 each x 6.
They charged $19.30 for the Vacuum line and $59.02 for the valve cover.
Total bill for the repair $282.72

My cost $56.54

pcitizen · 12-30-2004, 08:10 PM

I did the work for the TSB (minus the PCM part) for about $157. This included the new valve cover, eight isolator bolts, the new u-shaped vacuum line and 6 seals. The vechicle was great for about two weeks.

No error codes.

About one week ago the light came back on. This time it was P0401, low EGR flow. Another thread here mentioned the DPFE as the culpret. I changed it out this evening. The DPFE priced out at $51 out the door.

After the repair and opened up the old DPFE. Water was in there and the little circuit card was completely corroded as were attaching wires. The pressure differential sensor contained inside had significant corrosion on both sides of the device.

While doing the TSB for the isolator bolts and related problems, I am curious of the DPFE failure might have been the problem all along. No way to tell now... just curious.

Regards.

Mapdog · 12-31-2004, 02:55 AM

If I understand this TSB correctly, it requires replacement of only one valve cover???

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcitizen

I did the work for the TSB (minus the PCM part) for about $157. This included the new valve cover, eight isolator bolts, the new u-shaped vacuum line and 6 seals. The vechicle was great for about two weeks.

No error codes.

About one week ago the light came back on. This time it was P0401, low EGR flow. Another thread here mentioned the DPFE as the culpret. I changed it out this evening. The DPFE priced out at $51 out the door.

After the repair and opened up the old DPFE. Water was in there and the little circuit card was completely corroded as were attaching wires. The pressure differential sensor contained inside had significant corrosion on both sides of the device.

While doing the TSB for the isolator bolts and related problems, I am curious of the DPFE failure might have been the problem all along. No way to tell now... just curious.

Regards.

harumman · 12-31-2004, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapdog

If I understand this TSB correctly, it requires replacement of only one valve cover???

Yes. I think they refer to it as the Left VC. The one closest to the front of the vehicle.

bigem · 01-02-2005, 03:16 AM

I have a 2000 windstar se. cel came on at 45,000 miles. found out the codes were 171/174. searched the forums and found a wealth of great knowledge. (thanks to all) I took the van to the closest ford dealer to feel them out and letting them know that I knew the exact problem with the vehicle. They told me what I already knew and told me the cost of the repair would be $700.00. What a joke. I was set to do the tsb myself and priced the parts at the same dealer. $10.63 each bolt and they would not budge on the cost. I left. called the next closest dealer and was quoted a price of $6.77 each bolt. The price differences are amazing. I deciced to talk to a service writer at this dealer to see if I could get the parts at cost. I told him my story and let him know how upset I was that ford was blowing everone off with this problem. This guy at first seemed like he didn't care. He came back 10 minutes later and told me he would do the tsb for a $100.00 dollar deductible. They did the complete tsb for $100.00. So yes knowledge and persistence do pay off.....................p.s. the tranny in my van blew out at 20,000 miles. sure glad warranty was in effect.

DRW1000 · 01-02-2005, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcitizen

I did the work for the TSB (minus the PCM part) for about $157. This included the new valve cover, eight isolator bolts, the new u-shaped vacuum line and 6 seals. The vechicle was great for about two weeks.

No error codes............................................. .................................................. .....

I am curious of the DPFE failure might have been the problem all along. No way to tell now... just curious.

Regards.

The code for the DPFE is P0401 or 402 and the codes for TSB-03-16..(?) is P0171/P0174. If you had the 171/174 codes then the TSB was most likely required. IF you had 401 then the DPFE was the trouble.

Did you check the codes before doing the TSB? If yes then you just had a coincidence. If not maybe you only needed the DPFE. What turned off the CEL after the TSB?

I had the CEL about a year ago and I was convinced I needed the TSB because it is so common. I bought a code reader and discovered I only needed a DPFE. Now a year later I have the 171/174 codes.

If you did do the TSB without needing to rest assured you probably will have needed to do it soon enough.

pcitizen · 01-03-2005, 06:06 PM

The code reader indicated P0171/174. About two weeks later P0401 showed up. What turned off the CEL after the TSB? I did, using the code reader and ERASE.

DRW1000 · 01-04-2005, 07:03 AM

I think you had both problems. They are both very common with the Windstars. It is a coincidence that they failed so close to each other.

I don't see the 171/174 codes being activated by the DPFE. The 171/174 are usually caused by air in the intake that did not pass through the MAF. This is usually caused by an intake leak somewhere.

GITZY · 01-04-2005, 03:22 PM

I Have The Same Problem With My 99 Windstar But Havent
Got Around To Fix Yet.i'am Curious About What The Dpfe
Is And Where It Is Located So I Can Check.

Thanks Gitzy

DRW1000 · 01-04-2005, 07:16 PM

Gitzy,

You should get your codes read.

The DPFE is on the intake on the front right of the engine. It has two rubber hoses that connect to the EGR inlet tube and an electrical harness with 3 conductors. It is a small box about 3 inches by 2 inches. It is either aluminum (old design) or black plastic (new design). It is held on by 2 hex head bolts

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