Rate them : Japannese, American, European

[MexSiR]

As far as performance flagships from these division manufacturers which ones do you think rule in reliability, staight line performance, track usability, looks, prestige, engeneering.

Japan: Honda s2000, Honda NSX, Nissan 350z, Skyline GT-R, Mazda RX-8, Mitsubishi EVO VIII, Subaru Sti, Toyota Supra.

USA: Mustang Cobra, Saleen s7, Camaro z28, Dodge Viper RT-10, Corvette C5

Europe: Bmw M3/Z8, Mercedes AMG, Aston Martin Vanquish, Ferrari Modena/Enzo, Volvo R, Jag R etc...

Reliability: Europe and Japan for a tie

Straight line performance: Kings of drag USA

Track usability : Europe first place second Japan

Looks: Europe

Prestige: Europe then USA

Engineering: Europe then Japan

USA: Characterized by poor engeneered pony cars, lots of displacement not well engeneered producing low hp per liter ratios. As top gear states "Weve never tested an american car that can turn, until the ford GT" Known to be very good stright line performers.

Japan: High revving low displacement 4 cylinder engines. Best 4 cylinder NA engines ever. Lack of torque, not easy to mod since hp is hard to extract.

European: Balanced perfection, excellent engeneering.

So, opinions, rankings??

[NISSANSPDR]

Go to Europe for expensive...refined...not reliable...some of the most beautiful motors (v8's and v12's) and cars

Go to America for cheap...unrefined...not reliable still...some of the best straightline performers and three good all around cars (Viper, ZO6, Ford GT)

Go to Japan for moderately priced...moderately refined...reliable...some of the best handling cars and best 4 cylinder turbo (or NA) motors and inline 6's twin turbo!...

[freakonaleash1187]

european cars imo are the best there is. they have the best engines (as nissanspdr states) and are the best looking (as mexsir states). best european company-->Ferrari

japanese cars are for younger people imo. they are cheap to get fast and still look okay. best japanese company-->Nissan

american cars are for straight line performance. and they have pretty good bang for the buck. best american company-->Dodge (just cuz of the viper)

[Mr Payne]

reliability: Japan, US, European
staight line performance: US, European, Japan (if modded, tie between the US & Japan)
track usability: I'd say Japan, US, then Europe. Don't really know though...
looks: All have ugly & good looking cars.
prestige: Different things for different people.
*engineering*: Manufacturing engineering? US or Japan.
Actual "mechanical, aerospace, & chemical" engineering? I'd say Europe simply looking at where F1 companies are based.

[NISSANSPDR]

Payne...why would you put for the track US b4 Europe?

Look at what the US has...ZO6, Viper, Cobra R. That's it for amazing handling track cars...

Look at what Europe has...Lotus Elise, Noble M12 GTO, Tuscan TVR/Cerebra/Griffith, Porsche GT2/3, Ferrari 360 Modena/575 Maranello, Lamborghini Gallardo/Murciélago...

Clearly Europe should be over US

[Mr Payne]

Track Useability? I guess we would need to define that term. I would take that to mean, extracting the most out of the car. Any car over 100K that will be very hard to do simply because you WILL not want to crash it. Plus, the Viper matches ANYTHING on that list(for a MUCH lower cost). Except perhaps the Cerbera, but did that even get produced? The Z06/Cobra R match most of everything on that list. If we want to get into novelty stuff, I suppose the Mosler MT900S Photon would be fast as well.

[Jimster]

Eeeeeer......The Cereba is a TVR mainstay, has been in the TVR line up for about 8 or so years now.

I don't really stereotype cars by nation, that's almost like racism, but I'll try to go on individual merit.

But from what is put down in front of us.........

The Italians have constantly lead the way......Ferrari, Lamborghini, Alfa Romeo (for mainstream motors), Pagani, Maserati (Not so much Mazzers, but they have the perfect formula for luxury and performance in one, massive kudos IMHO) and the cars have that much more emotion than anything else in the world.

As engineers go, the Germans and French are tied- Citroen has been undeniably the worlds biggest innovator as far as cars go (The swivelling headlights, Front Wheel drive, radial tyres, air suspension)- though, Renault are somewhat close behind. While German auto makers reak of perfection- most notably Porsche and BMW. The cars are normally done to a top-notch standard, but only Porsche really build decent track cars in thier mainstream lineups. (OK, so ///M do as well)

The British are A-grade nutcases- The Caterham 7, Noble M12 GTO, MG X Power SV, AC Cobra, Lotus Elise, LCC Rocket, Radical SR3 TVR line-up, Westfield these cars are reputed for destroying anything thrown thier way- but they are very dedicated track cars and not the most practical of things.

The Americans have spent most of the last few decades lagging behind most Automakers, in everything, really, except putting V8's in everything imagineable. Until the very latest Viper, 'Vette Z06, Ford GT and SVT Cobra, there have been no cars capable of actually turning a corner properly. Too much dependance on live rear axles for drag racing, which is understandable, as the scene is very big over there. Recent German ownership has turned Chrysler around and we are seeing some awesome cars coming out of them (If we pretend the PT Cruiser doesn't exist). The Seppos also hold the straight line performance advantage, big time.
The Viper would have to be on my top 5 cars on sale today, it makes the cut without breaking much of a sweat.

Japan is something I'm very divided on- on one hand we have the MItsubishi Evolution, Subaru WRX STi, Nissan Skyline GTR and 350Z, Honda NSX-R- But look at some of the poorly thought out crap they have produced at the same time- The best example being the Nissan Skyline GTS, the older the worse. Basically it's one of the worst cars I've ever driven. I also once looked at an R32 GTSt- not much better at all, in fact, almost just as bad.


So really it's a mixed bag, but I"d say the European makers have made the leaps and bounds required to keep the market interesting.

We also run into another problem- multi-nationalism. SEAT, Skoda, Bugatti, Bentley, ROlls Royce and Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep are now German, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, Saab, Opel, Vauxhall, Holden and Daewoo are all technically American. Nissan is 44-odd% French, FIAT Auto, Subaru and Mitsubishi have small American-owned portions and the list goes on..........

Basically the world is just one big car multi-national car company- Honda, Toyota, MG/Rover and BMW (Sort of) are the only exceptions to this, really

[del]

well even bmw isn't just german anymore. it has ownership of a british company also owned by an american company: range rover. even the italian maclaren f1 is powered by a bmw engine right? gm is putting a honda engine in their saturn. toyota and gm have a partnership: the corolla and prism have always shared platforms, engines and just about looked the same up until the prism was discontinued. but now the matrix and vibe are essentially the same car. off the top of my head, subaru and the korean cars are the ONLY major manufacturers that keep their own cars and parts to themselves.

americans - much improved over the past 10 years but still playing catch-up in terms of quality, reliability and refinement. i think the americans have placed entirely too much emphasis on the truck market and forgot that people still drive sedans and coupes. they do make durable and powerful trucks there's no doubt. but how about the rest of us who don't haul cargo or tow heavy trailers? i'd buy an american truck over any other, but for cars i'd certainly look elsewhere first - unless it's the GT or viper.

europeans - engineering masterpieces, some at the expense of reliability however. the benchmark for prestige and image cars - something cadillac, lincoln, lexus, acura, or infiniti can't match. high cost for maintenance and parts for these cars are a turn-off for your everyday consumer, which is why you'll rarely see a european car as the best seller in the US. cars feel solid and seemingly put together out of one piece of metal. you get that thump when you shut the doors, not the cling/clang/bang of japanese or american cars.

japanese - they can make cars last longer than most people even own the damn car. the leaders in efficient, economical and sensible transportation. the most reliable cars out on the road no doubt with great build quality, especially toyota and honda. all good stuff but these same cars lack personality and soul, japan doesn't have near the history of both american and europeans. and i'd rather hit a telephone pole in a domestic or european car than a japanese. they just dont' feel as solid or durable to me. i'd use a tin can for comparison. european cars like volvo and audi feel like tanks. and americans just build BIG. haha

[Kurtdg19]

I'll throw in my opinion on this matter. As Jimster said, this seems a bit stereotypical. I've got this feeling that everybody is going to be judging everyone off of this thread, but what the hell.

IMO one of the most important reasons these cars are the way they are today deals with how they were influenced years ago. The Heritage of each car seems to be past down bit by bit into the newer cars we see today.

America - Influenced greatly by the muscle car area. Gas prices were very cheap at this time, and speed was on everyones mind. Hense, the introduction of the large displacment V8's being as common as the average Honda I4 today. The V8 seems to hold a soft spot in American heritage, and they seem to have a very good platform for it. A large displacment V8 pushrod develops gobs of torque and can be fairly good on gas with the 2valve system making it thermally efficient. New cars like the Corvette and the Viper produce over 400 horsepower while producing far less pollution than their counterparts of the past. Today, their low price vehicles and parts maintain a sizable portion of the automobile industry. Quality has became a lot better from the past as well as everyother car. Live rear axles has its advantages in different sports, but it also becoming a thing of the past in the new cars. The one thing america has everybody beat on is our inspiring ability to turn left LOL. Also the most pointless event i.e. NASCAR.

Europe - Known for their inventive and very high end vehicles. Nobody can build a car better than the Europeans, and for the price tag you'd have to agree. European cars are the definition of a prestigious automobile. Cars with extremely developed and researched engineering make them very technilogically advanced. Cars such as the Lotus Elise (IMO) are one of the best built cars with a purpose ever. A very small and lightweight performance car that has as much inspiration as Ferrari. No industry has the racing heritage like the European automakers do. Very intensly developed sports cars come with an extremely high maintence schedule, with extremely expensive parts. Europeans build a car like no other, need I say more?

Japan - Reliabiltiy begins and ends with the word import. No other industry has proved that their cars can be tested time after time as being the most reliable, long lasting cars on the market (except for maybe Lincoln....damn old people hehe). Known for their ability to push amazing horsepower out such small displacment engines proves their engineering skills are about up to par with the Europeans. Their build quality is outstanding for the price none the least. Ever since the gas increases the Japanese automakers have taken a good grab of the market and has had its grip remained only grabbing for more. Consuming a market as large as the american autoindustry only further proves the worthyness of their vehicles. Granted the somewhat fragility feeling compared to the A's/E's as del noted, I would much rather not wreck in one of these cars. Overall the Japanese automarket and enginerring is a name to be heard.

As Jimster as noted, the world is one big multi-national car company. Cars today have strengths from each market, making them even better than ever. The future automarket is going to be a very impressive one, so be on the look out.

[MexSiR]

I have to agree with DEL and Kurtdg19, very well put. I have driven japanesse cars, american and european. I have one car of each in my garage, although they all dont belong to me, i drive them oftenly. I have a 1999 civic SI, my mother drives a bmw 323 2001, and my father drives a ford grand marquis.

I get the sense that my car is almost undestructable, i always rev it really hard, up to 8200 Rpms, the engine never gives any problems, not a single one, but some amenities such as windows disfunction. When you get into my car you feel a "cheap" interior with everything you need. You drive it, you rev it and you notice its fast for an NA 4 cyl. But when you are doing fast speeds you notice the lightness of the car, you are driving a feather.

The ford is "BIG". The suspension is so soft it makes you think you are floating and not riding on wheels. If you want to make an abrupt turn the car will sudenly become unstable and hard to controll. It is VERY confortable and the plastics are weak and cheap, but the interior doesent look as cheap as the civic but the materials are cheaper. It wastes too much gas.

The BMW is SOLID. something that i like a lot. Its so well put together, as del said you are riding a tank. The interior materials are excellent, there are virtually no sounds in the interiors, something that can clearly be noticed in the civic or gran marquis. It is not loud, very refined. It corners very well, the suspension is balanced.

I think the cars in my garage somewhat personalize the STEREOTYPES which in some cases are true, about car divisions.

[freakonaleash1187]

another two companies that worked together on a car, well, suv was porsche and vw (cayenne and toureg). the reason i brought that up is cuz that is really odd with those two companies working together. they are almost completely opposite. the bottom line with this post is that some companies join together to make the weirdest combinations.

[Jimster]

Del: BMW sold Land Rover to Ford and Rover/MG to an independent British investments group, back in May 2000. They do, however own Rolls Royce, the Triumph name and the MINI brand.

The McLaren F1 engine is indeed a BMW One, but the rest of the car is British, might I add, using a badge from New Zealand (Well, when you think about it)

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by del

subaru and the korean cars are the ONLY major manufacturers that keep their own cars and parts to themselves.

You might need to check the top of your head, Subaru use a lot of parts sourced from other engering companys, The rear diff in every AWD Subaru made for example comes from a company called Fujimi Heavy Industries (who own Subaru in part) and is exactly the same diff used on most RWD nissans, starting with the old 180b and still used on the last Silvia.

And the Koreans up untill recently used mostly out dated Mitsi engines and platforms with new body designs. Its only in the last 2-3 years they have started useing thier own engine and chassis designs.

[ferrari_adidas5]

my favorite are the european because they have created the beatiful masterpieces of the ferrari, porsche, lamborghini, aston martin, etc. americans though have the corvette, viper, and of course the saleen s7. japan is ok, but they dont have much in the way of sports cars. my fav. japanese car is the Skyline

[youngvr4]

i have a thing for japanese muscle cars. now this is probably very opinionated to say but i feel that japanese cars are more reliable at high hp then the U.S on the average.
going to the track i see lots of muscle running 11''s and 10's some 9's but they are not to be dailey drivers, not saying that all 10 sec jap cars are but there are lots of jap cars i know of that are daily drivers at high hp. dont quote me on that