Fuel delivery problem solved

[michael88]

My '98 Windstar 3.8 began having starting problems a few weeks ago and it rapidly got to a point where I'd sit there 5 minutes or so before I got it running. It cranked fine but I didn't hear the fuel pump UNLESS it started. Once it was running there were no problems, it ran smooth. I had smelled something burning on two occasions around when this happened, so I swapped out the fuel pump fuse (which looked fine) and the fp relay which seemed to smell a bit charred. No luck.

I had my mechanic change the fuel filter and try to diagnose the problem. He said the filter had been clogged, which may have damaged the fuel pump, and he told me $500 for a new pump. I also noticed and told him that the check engine light wasn't coming on EXCEPT when the vehicle would start, but he disregarded that.

I got the vehicle home and did some voltage and continuity testing, and the PCM relay came up bad in a continuity test with 12 volts applied, so I replaced the relay- and the vehicle has been starting with no problem for the last two days.

So, a few things. Does it sound like I'm done here? Does the check engine light have anything to do with a bad PCM relay?

Besides asking for some info from you folks, I wanted to post this in case it might help someone with similar symptoms.

[tomj76]

> my mechanic....
> told me $500 for a new pump

A Motorcraft pump is $300 at Advance Auto... what's he charging per hour for labor?

I don't know if the PCM relay and filter could be the root cause. You'd think a clogged filter would stop flow the same amount all the time and you'd never start it, or it would run rough if it did start. When you say that you didn't hear the fuel pump, I can only hear mine without the engine running. It makes enough noise to hear it when it's quiet, but not when the engine running.

A clogged fuel filter CAN burn out a pump, but I think you'd be able to check that with a proper fuel pressure test.

[12Ounce]

On the '99 the fuel pump relay (and fuel pump) is fed by the PCM relay, not sure about the '98 ... but you may be "done".

Did you ever get the code read?

[michael88]

Thanks for the replies guys.

TomJ76,
I was told that the Motorcraft fuel pump would be about $250 and the labor about $250 also. AFA hearing the pump, I was talking about the 1-2 second priming of the pump when you turn the ignition to ON, but don't start the car. Fuel pressure was within limits, but the mechanic didn't check the circuits.

12Ounce,
Yeah, it's the same with the '98- the PCM relay feeds the fuel pump relay. I have an OBDII reader, and there were no codes. I wasn't very clear- when the Windstar wouldn't start there was no check engine light at all, even with the ignition turned part way; when I was cranking AND the fuel pump was getting juice, I'd see the check engine light as usual, just until the vehicle started, then it disappeared.

I read somewhere that not seeing the check engine light might mean that something was not right with the PCM, but I'm not sure how true that is.

[wiswind]

I would get the code(s) read for the CEL, however....be aware that the CEL will STAY lit for a while AFTER the problem is solved.
There will be no codes come up that tell you of a fuel flow or pressure issue.....there are OBDII codes for it....but the windstar has no sensors for either fuel pressure or flow....so the PCM does not monitor these 2 values.

I have also read a number of posts about the PCM and fuel pump relays being an issue......on the newer windstars with the separate relays.
My older (1996) unit has separate relays......inside a metal box called a Constant Control Relay Module (CCRM), so we have to replace the CCRM as a unit.

As far as cost of parts......a shop is usually going to charge you more than you can go out a buy the part for (unless we are talking about a dealership that charges full list to start with).
To replace a fuel pump, one has to remove the fuel tank.

For a 1996 ( should be really close for all years) the standard repair time for a fuel pump replacement as per Alldatadiy is 2 hours not including draining and refilling the tank....which should not be a lot of time.
Add to that the $251.90 for the fuel pump (as per alldatadiy)

A REALLY good preventative maintenance that is easy to forget is to replace the fuel filter regularly......as the filter becomes clogged, it adds to the workload for the fuel pump.

[12Ounce]

I don't know why you aren't getting the CEL lamp during the entire lamp-check at start-up. You may have some more relay issues lurking.