Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

[kitch]

Yes each injector is clicking. I was thinking would the fuel pressure increase when disconnecting one of the injectors. Which way does the fuel run to #1 cylinder, #2, #3, #6, #5, #4, or reverse. When I create suction on the fuel pressure regulator nothing happens the engine does not rev up or down. Is something supposed to happen. The only other thing is that the egr valve is partly opened even though there is no vacuum at idle maybe the diaphragm is not closing all the way?

[12Ounce]

The firing (and injector) order for all Windstars is: 1-4-2-5-3-6.

I don't know what to expect when vacuum is applied to fuel regulator.

The EGR should be closed by a internal spring. The diaphragm opens it. Sounds like yours is sticking, or has a burned valve seat. Either case is unusual.

[doublecurious]

How do I find out the codes on my 99 Windstar SEL? What do the acronyms stand for that you all were using.

Thanks

[DRW1000]

The codes from an OBD11 vehicle need to be read via a code reader. They are fairly inexpensive ($100 or so). Whenever your CEL (Check Engine Light) illuminates a code reader is required as the first step to diagnosing and repairing the problem.

OBD11 - On Board Diagnostics 2nd generation. All cars sold in NA from 1996 onward have to be OBD11 compatible vehicles. The PCM (Powertrain Control Module) continuoulsy monitors a number of sensors. It uses this data to provided optimun operating parameters and adjusts things such as ignition timing, fuel charge timing, Air/fuel ratio, EGR feedback....

It senses parameters such as RPM, intake air flow, Air temperature, % complete combustion, %O2 in the exhaust and many others.

The CEL lighting is an indication that one or more of the sensors is reading something that can not be compensated for or too out of range. This is an indication that your vehicle is not running at optimum and is most likely using more fuel and perhaps is emitting unacceptable emiisions.

Some of the Acronyms in this thread are:

EGR - exhaust gas recirculation
DPFE - Delta pressure feedback exhaust (egr?)
EVR - EGR vacuum regulator
PCM - Powertrain control module

[kitch]

I am still having problems understanding why would #6 start firing when #5 is unplugged? Then stop when #5 was plugged back in.

[DRW1000]

just a guess kitch but is it possible that #5 and #6 share some branch of the fuel injector circuits and the load of the bad one prevents the good "sister" injector to stop.

I am suggesting this without looking at any diagrams so it is a complete guess.

[kitch]

I will have to take my meter and check eack one then take #5 off and see if #6 increases. I will also reference #4 since it is the one that is firing normal. Thank you for the suggestion.

[wiswind]

Kitch,
If you have the same fuel system as I do on my '96.....there is a return line to the gas tank.
There is a fuel pressure regulator that is mounted on the fuel rail......on the passenger side. The fuel pressure regulator has a vaccum line to it.
I would guess the answer to your question of whether the fuel pressure would increase with 1 less injector firing.....would be "NO"....provided that the engine speed stays the same. This is because the pressure regulator will compensate for any change in fuel flow into the engine. The fuel pressure will be at a minimum at idle....as the vaccum applied to the regulator is at the maximum.
Under higher engine speeds.....the vaccum will be lower.....which will cause the regulator to increase the fuel pressure. The idea behind the vaccum line to the regulator is to increase the fuel pressure under higher engine load / speed.

[kitch]

Wiswind,

Then would it be true if my fuel pressure regulator is malfunctioning, it might affect the amount of fuel into each injector by affecting the pressure. I am wondering because when I take #5 electrical connector off, #6 starts firing when I put #5 on #6 starts misfiring. Things that make you go hmmmm or crazy which ever comes first.

[pcitizen]

I'm with DRW1000 on this one. It seems that the load of #5 and 6 is too much for the injector drivers. The injector coils on my 2000 Windstar have about 13.8 ohms of resistance each. They draw about .9 Amp or consume about 13 Watts when energized. Check your injector coils for similar ohm values. They should be around 13.5 to 14 ohms as well. Obtain a 10 and 5 ohm resistor from Radio Shack. Get 10 watt ones. Hook them in series and then across the connector for #5. Connect number 6 to the injector. Start the engine. Detach and reattach the resistor to see if the engine speed changes. Then do the same for #6 with the resistors and with #5 attached. If engine speed doesn't change I would suspect one or more bad injectors for 5 and 6. If it does change, I would suspect the injector drivers.

[kitch]

It is more than likely the drivers then because I changed the injector from #6 with #4 and still #6 was misfiring. I have a lot of things to check this weekend and will let you know how it goes. Question, this is my wife's van I don't drive it to often or fill it. Today was the first time in a long time that I have filled it. It was on an 1/8 of a tank. When I opened the gas cap there was a large suction/venting sound that came. The gas tank was either low or high pressure, is this normal?

[pcitizen]

The vapor purging systems will cause this rushing air sound. I have never experienced this myself, but my wife says her van (2000 Windstar) does this sometimes when it is hot outside. She explained that it seems be blowing a bit of air out though. She did say that she is not sure. On a side note, I've heard - hear and there - that it is better for the in tank pump to keep the fuel level above 1/2 tank. This ensures the pump stays submerged which allows for continuous cooling and lubrication from the fuel.

[kitch]

I check a few things this weekend and the injectors are fine and they are being feed the same as #4 cylinder. I took #4 off and left #5 and #6 on the engine dropped rpm. Then after about 15 to 20 sec the engine rpm climbed back up. I am guessing but the computer is adjusting to me taking #4 off. I kind of figured out that I have a vacuum like. I can hear a faint high-pitched whistle sound from the drive seat when I give the pedal a quick pulse. I have sprayed everything under the sun around in there but can't make engine rev up or down. Does anyone have any Ideas about where it could be if your hearing it inside, driver side, but not under the hood????

[pcitizen]

Sure. Check the Power Brake Booster. These are vacuum operated devices. If yours is leaking it may here it inside the vehicle. Here's a test. Find the vacuum line for the PB Booster. Disconnect it from the booster and plug the end. Be careful when you disconnect this hose. The fitting on the booster is plastic and may be a bit brittle due to high temps under the hood. Once disconnected and plugged. Start the vehicle. Get inside and listen for the hissing. If it stopped change the booster. If it is still present we will have to look else where. BTW: With the PB Booster disconnected stopping the vehicle will likely take two feet and and firm grip on the steering wheel. I recommend that the vehicle not be driven at all when the hose is disconnected.

[kitch]

Would anyone know if a lean condition on bank #1 would cause a misfire on #6 cylinder, or are they two separate things? I will have to try the brake booster today when I get a chance. Thanks for the tip. Every where I look there is no talk of #6 misfire and lean on bank #1 only.