Could a 3 Cylinder Metro be made to run on Ethanol?

[redpepe]

just mowed the lawn with my homegrown 22" elec string mower. it didn't miss a beat. if i'm doing this right, i figure it drew between 5 and 10 amps @120v. that = about 600w - 1200w. it takes an hour plus ..... so @$.16 per kwh., it cost between $.12 and $.19. my gas mower would have used from 1/2 to 1 gal. for that time of operation .... so $2 - $4.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...-080626-P1.jpg

times 52 wks per year. ......

if the mower system proves reliable, i'll switch it to inverted battery power like the tractor.

[freefall]

Dr. B here is a link to a possible outcome of global warming.
http://zfacts.com/p/190.html

redpepe A drano experiment need not be involving running a car. Simply flowing some into a lawnmower as boost will show a premise. Simple things used as building blocks. after that try cutting off the gas supply and keep it going on hydrogen.

[redpepe]

good link ... the 'thc' goes all around the world and if i remember correctly can take 10 to 100 years to make the circuit ..... barring bungling interferences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermohaline_circulation

whoops .... it says the oldest waters may take 1600 years for a round trip!

re drano .... right you are. i do prep experiments and tests all the time ... and the battery conversions are leading to the probable metro conversion / hybridization. i'm less interested in producing more power in a given engine ..... prefer long life. i've been convinced for 40 years ..... hydrogen in the pipes v nat gas sounds like a good plan. compressed air / liquid air, flywheels, springs, etc .... all appeal to me.

for the curious ..... here are some very early 20th cent electric tractors .... amazing what we've done.

http://www.bungartz.nl/elektra.html

[kj21]

I don't like ethanol think it's a waste of time. Electric cars and Bio Diesel

[redpepe]

etahanol is a disasterous hoax .... along with 'offsets'. haven't read the report but world bank says it's contributed to fuel price rise. 'cap and trade' schemes seem like a distraction from serious solutions too.

[woodmen]

It is all about CONTROLL, and destruction of America.
Look at Nikola Tesla's discoveries.
Until they controll water we wont have cars runing on it............

[redpepe]

an optimistic vision perhaps ......


Envisioning a World of $200-a-Barrel Oil

by Martin Zimmerman

Los Angeles Times (June 28 2008)

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,5485259.story

[freefall]

What I'm saying with ethanol is if you made what you needed in your backyard with just a few hours a week work and saved $2-3 a gallon then your doing pretty good for yourself.

I haven't seen anything on adverse effect on greenhouse gasses using it. If someone has a link can you post it. I don't think it's effects on rubber and plastic are relevent anymore. If they are making cars to run on e-85 they are using better materials. Also someone mentioned inefficiency of the burn. I'd like to know more about that as well.

redpepe I have you beat my lot is so small(crowd shouts out how small is it). I buy .5 gallon of gas a year to mow my front,side and back yards. lol

[redpepe]

thanks ff,

ethanol burns very cleanly. atmospheric pollutions can be produced by particular methods of burning. at higher temperatures and pressures, oxides of nitrogen are produced [by all fuels using atmospheric oxidizing] in greater quantities and forms. some of the early low compression engines did much better re nitrogen issues than our contemporary designs. also i believe some of them got better average mileage than our current cafe standards require! [but remember, according to many .... the oil / car corps don't run / manage evil guvmint and need to be unfettered for our benefit]. it's the collective limits that must ultimately concern us.

a friend got an alcohol license and used homegrown jerusalem artichokes [and many other things] for fodder. he's exceptionally capable and yet had limited success. keep at it!

i admire all individual creative efforts ...... the work of simply surviving in a self defeating, dog eat dog culture is purposefully belittled and/or cynically made 'heroic' but supported only with cheap talk while demanding ever more of a cut by the comfortable class. the promotion of 'lifting yourselves by your own bootstraps' is the height of such cynicism. we survive on the bent shoulders of the collective efforts of billions of struggling workers .... not nominal 'giants'.

re small plot .... think of all the money you could save by going electric! .... kidding mostly. even though there are mountains of consumptive 'waste' all around us, it sounds like it's going to be tough to find enough carb / sugar in your yard to make much alcohol and if not available there, then the transport and gathering uses more energy than produced perhaps?

everyone's situation is different and that's one of the places we [yes, me too] get into political trouble .... making ill considered generalizations for all .... instead of recognizing the work and participation required to make a nimble and responsive and equity seeking, principled government. note that participation is only possible for those with the time to do the homework ..... and thus to have an actual democracy, requires that all have the means to live adequately.

i currently keep the lawn in a few spots for coolness and weed / dust suppression ...... and in the orchard for weed suppression and nitrogen fixing self fertilization and as a cushion for falling fruit. i only harvest windfalls and have tree ripened fruits for much of the year. in case you missed it, the rototiller is planned for replacing some lawn with crops .....

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...iller-5-08.jpg

here's a link to george monbiot's writing ... always good for 'big picture' and backyard.... this on cap and trade / offsets ....

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2008...reen-lifeline/

[sixseas]

Man is that interesting got so many ideas to work on like that lawn mower and cultivator. And what I could do if I had a hovercraft going you wouldnt believe. Im ready to run out and toss the old Briggs and Straton 12hp in the lake get a couple car starters and batteries and turn the lawn tractor into a electric 4x4 with motors on each wheel. If I fire up the still behind the garage Ill have enough Ethanol to throw a party and drive around all weekend too. TGIF

[redpepe]

hey there sixseas,

all those prospects sound good to me. go for it. i forget if i mentioned that i want to gang 3 of those 22" string trimmers into a deck .... an electric 60" mower.

i use a c motors because they are so available in forms and range of torques. i use a 2000w inverter that seems to be holding up ok.

anyway, in case you missed it, ....

i've converted a 1939 sears roebuck walk behind garden tractor to battery power and continue to use it as an experimental platform. i use harbor freight parts .... pushing the beast with a 1/2" angle drill that has wonderful torque, powered by a 10 year old marine battery going through a 2000 watt inverter. it does very well! i use a simple hf 'router controller' for speed control.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...1_P1010666.jpg

g.e. made electric garden tractors decades ago and i think i've seen some 4 wheeler conversons though not a motor at each wheel yet.

the best home made wine i've had was in british columbia .... made from parsnips ... and then there was the 'tripple run' plum!

... and let's do some metros while we're at it.

[sixseas]

That is an excellent attempt to covert away from relying on the Saudis. Just keep the inverter away from the Ethanol stash or it could mean the end of civilization as we know it today. I still think this most recent round of assaults on our economy are foreign driven attempts to dilute our ability to conduct extended warfare against their fellow sheetheads. There is also a growing consensus oil demand in the short run will outstrip supply faster than we think forcing governments to ration. China with its phenomenal growth and rapidly modernizing military just raised subsidized fuel costs, like rising fuel costs in this country when cost reaches a point $5, $10, or maybe $12 demand drops giving the overall same numerical effect as rationing albeit a potentially more unfair system given the large disparity of wealth and need.

It appears absolutely essential to work around this looming problem. It may play out like in the 1970s fuel problem and again they may mask the problem but it will be back as long as we rely on a foreign power for what we need to survive.

San Diego Union: “A growing chorus of economists and market analysts warns that prices could hit $7 a gallon by 2010. Some even say prices could shoot to $12 to $15 a gallon by 2013. Gregory Clark, who heads the economics department at the University of California Davis, estimated that if gas hits $15 per gallon, the American standard of living would decline 11 percent.” Maybe Mr. Gates lifestyle will decline 11% but it would make life very tough for many of us. This may create a new class of can go out for a ride and a group that can’t event think about it. I think thats why keeping the 1.0L in race car condition, and looking for alternative sources for electric and fuel is so important right now. If you look at how FEMA and our government handled New Orleans we may be in for a wild ride.

[taco71]

Wow the anti electric vehicle predictions in this thread have aged TERRIBLY