Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

[pcitizen]

Originally Posted by DRW1000

PCitizen................I didn't mean to call you old...............Just a couple of years on me.

Sorry if it may have offended you.

No offense taken. Shiznit... I'm a grand pap at the ripe age of 42. I kinda like the sound of that.

PCitizen

[DRW1000]

Originally Posted by pcitizen

No offense taken. Shiznit... I'm a grand pap at the ripe age of 42. I kinda like the sound of that.

PCitizen

LOL........here I am calling you old...............I'm gonna hit 43 in 2 weeks...........

1973 eh.................You started working on cars at an early age.

[pcitizen]

Originally Posted by DRW1000

LOL........here I am calling you old...............I'm gonna hit 43 in 2 weeks...........

1973 eh.................You started working on cars at an early age.

Sure did... I was working on minor stuff like oil and spark plugs. Also was rebuilding lawn mower engines and mini-bikes.

Always been into this kind of stuff.

[DRW1000]

Okay............I sent my wife to get the spark plugs from Ford.

My owner's manual states AWSF-42EE. She was given AGSF42FM. I caled and I was told the part number had changed. I would tend to believe the original was superceded perhaps but not the part number change.

Anyway I just wondered if anyone had purchased plugs recently from Ford and what part numbers did they receive.

[wiswind]

I DO remember that the number had changed....I donot remember the numbers right off....but I would expect that you have the correct plugs.
Autozone was sold out when I went for mine....and I ended up getting the same number from the FORD dealer as Autozone listed.

[DRW1000]

Okay I finally got around to doing my Isolator bolt fix. It was a beautiful day so I took full advantage of it. I also replaced my plugs while I was at it.

I thought I would share my experiences:

1) I removed the cowl as advised and I was glad I did. I think it made it a lot easier.
2) I had a difficult time removing one of the bolts in the cowl and it snapped. Anyway it was the only real trouble I had so no big deal.
3) The plugs were somewhat difficult. Reaching for the rear ones was a bit of a challenge and pulling the rear boots off was a task. It took me at least an hour after the cowl was off. My owner's manual stated the gap as 0.042-0.046 but the sticker under the hood was 0.052-0.056. I went with the sticker. I used anti-sieze and a dielectric grease on the boots. I hope none are cross-threaded. (fingers crossed). The plugs were the originals and had abour 1350000 Km. They came out relatively easy but they were in pretty bad shape. It seemed like I had the E suffix plugs on the front bank and the EG suffix on the rear bank. I didn't expect them to be in that sequence but I knew there would be two types.
4) PCitizen's instructions were right on the money and I followed his advice. The port seals and bolts was time consuming but easy. I could not believe the amount of oil in the intake. My EGR ports were relatively clean which surprised me. The intakes were very dirty. I cleaned it all up and even replaced the main gasket although I don't think there was anything wrong with the old one. I did not replace the valve cover or the fuel regulator hose. I tried to determine where the intake leaks occured and assume they were through the port seals but I could not find any obvious signs.

Got it all together and it actually started. I erased the codes and I will know in a week or two if I solved the 171/174 codes. The whole job including the plugs took me about 7 hours. I suppose I am slow and of course my 6-year old was helping.

Thanks to everyone for all of the help and advice.

[DRW1000]

Well I have been driving around with my code reader and it looks like the 171/174 codes are gone.

"Knock on wood"

I am now trying to understand the failure mechanism here. Although I could not see where the unmetered air entered I will accept that this was the cause of the codes. What I don't understand is why would the PCM not just increase the fuel until the O2s did not report lean? I assume there was not that much air entering as it would cease to run so one would assume it was compensatable.

I considered that maybe the numbers didn't add up for the PCM and so it tried to compensate but still erred but yet another thought was that the PCM could have simply "explained" the more air than metered to simple age of components and added the parameters to learned data.

Anyway just thinking out loud but if anyone cares to discuss it I would love to listen.

By the way I still can't get the EV monitor to run. but this is not a 171/174 are of specialty and a monitor not running just means that conditions have not existed for the PCM to run the test but...........

[Dave 29]

Hi all this is a great thread, I know its a few months old but I was searching for this problem...I too have the p171 and 174 codes and would like to try and fix this myself...I have a few questions..
first off though thank you so much to pcitizen for posting that website it looks like it will be a great help...
I have a 99 windstar with 89,000 km's on it.
The only problem we have is the cel and maybe a bit worse gas mileage.
first question what harm does this do to continue driving it?
what did you guys use to clean the parts with? egr valves and intake port faces etc? I was told not to use any chemicals that are harsh to rubber etc..
are the isolator bolts torque specific? I heard you can brake them easy and they only have 1 use so you have to buy a new one if you back them out?
thanks again for all the help...
I think I might do this on monday ....unless we buy a new van this weekend the wife wants a freestar...lol
Dave

[INGGING]

It's Kind Of Hard To See The Leak Due To The Fan Is Infront Of It Specially When The Fan Is On. Did Changed The Bottom Gasket Total Of 6 And The Insulators Total Of 8. Did Not Change The Top Gasket And Fuel Regulator Tube Or Hose Due To Still In Good Condition. Did All That Work 2 Weeks Ago And P0171 And P174 Are Still Not On. Normally It Takes Couple Days And Engine Light Come On. Let You Know If The Light Come Back On... Good Luck...

[DRW1000]

Hey Dave_29,

I just did mine. So I will try and answer your questions:

Harm - My problem started in November of 2004 (or there abouts) and I waited until it got warm enough for me to do it in March. I had a couple of very hard starts in January but of course my plugs were old too. I did notice my gas milage went down (at least it seems better now). I have heard that lean can hurt the cats. I doubt you would do any major damage in a week or two and I obviously wasn't too worried. When you CEL flashed it is time for quick action.

Clean - I used mineral spirits, throttle body cleaner and lots of rags.

The Isolator bolts must be torqued and in sequence to prevent subsequent leaks. I think you are talking about 1 time use only. I think this is common on head bolts but I doubt it on these ones as they are not torqued too much and I doubt they "stretch" when installed. At least I hope not because I had to loosen all of mine after I torqued them becasue on of the rags I used to block the ports got wedged betwwen the intake and the port seal.

Lessons learned- I was advised to buy the big gasket that seals the upper and lower plenum. I did not want to take the chance and since I had it, I replaced it, but I didn't need to. I also doubt that my seals needed to be replaced. I probably could have just replaced the bolts. I sensed this going into the procedure but having that much of the engine disassembled I did not want to take the chance. If I knew then I would have just purchased the bolts.

By the way............I thought I would be smart and skip a couple of Pcitizen's steps only to discover I had to do the steps later on anyway. His procedure is right on and I had a print out out with me for reference.

[Dave 29]

thanks again....
did you need any special tools? or sockets etc?
I broke my deep 10 mm changing the wheel bearings on my car....I so I better get some new ones lol...
Dave

Originally Posted by DRW1000

Hey Dave_29,

I just did mine. So I will try and answer your questions:

Harm - My problem started in November of 2004 (or there abouts) and I waited until it got warm enough for me to do it in March. I had a couple of very hard starts in January but of course my plugs were old too. I did notice my gas milage went down (at least it seems better now). I have heard that lean can hurt the cats. I doubt you would do any major damage in a week or two and I obviously wasn't too worried. When you CEL flashed it is time for quick action.

Clean - I used mineral spirits, throttle body cleaner and lots of rags.

The Isolator bolts must be torqued and in sequence to prevent subsequent leaks. I think you are talking about 1 time use only. I think this is common on head bolts but I doubt it on these ones as they are not torqued too much and I doubt they "stretch" when installed. At least I hope not because I had to lossen all of mine after I torqued them becasue on of the rags I used to block the ports got wedged betwwen the intake and the port seal.

Lessons learned- I was advised to buy the big gasket that seals the upper and lower plenum. I did not want to take the chance and since I had it I replaced it but I didn't need to. I also doubt that my seals needed to be replaced. I probably could have just replaced the bolts. I sensed this going into the procedure but having that much of the engine disassembled I did not want to take the chance.

By the way............I thought I would be smart and skip a couple of Pcitizen's steps only to discover I had to do the steps later on anyway. His procedure is right on and I had a print out out with me for reference.

[DRW1000]

I can't remember the size but I did need a metric socket or 2 so yeah replace the 10mil. I would recommend changing the spark plugs if they are due. It is a good opportunity when the top of the engine is gone. It took me about 7 hours to do the job including the plugs and the hour I spent having a beer with my neighbour who came over to see what I was doing. I took my time so it could be done in about 4 hours if you're quick.

Let us know when you are doing it ands I will check this forum throughout the day in case a question pops up that I can help with.

[Dave 29]

Thanks again...I think I will do this today or tuesday...
about the isolator bolts...how do you know the sequence to re install them? will that be in the manual?
Dave

Originally Posted by DRW1000

I can't remember the size but I did need a metric socket or 2 so yeah replace the 10mil. I would recommend changing the spark plugs if they are due. It is a good opportunity when the top of the engine is gone. It took me about 7 hours to do the job including the plugs and the hour I spent having a beer with my neighbour who came over to see what I was doing. I took my time so it could be done in about 4 hours if you're quick.

Let us know when you are doing it ands I will check this forum throughout the day in case a question pops up that I can help with.

[DRW1000]

It was in my Haynes and I am that certain any manual that describes the re-assembly will have the torque sequence.

Basically it is like a cylinder head or intake manifold (and most items that need to be torqued and that have multiple fasteners.

Start at the inside and criss-cross. Therefore if you number the two rows of bolts from left to right and then top to bottom 1-2-3-4 and the 2nd row 5-6-7-8 you would torque in the foillowing order. 2-7-6-3-4-5-1-8. This may not be exactly what is called up but is using the same logic (middle to sides) of course there are about 4 equivalent sequences as well depending on which one you start at.

[Dave 29]

I dont see a hole in my valve cover under the pcv valve.
so I didnt buy one yet....is varsol ok to clean the plenum etc...? I am taking this apart right now...
thanks again
Dave