93 Geo Metro belt Squeal

[DOCTORBILL]

I am having a problem with all this...

Why is mine - a normal '93 Metro - not squealing then ?

Normal Alternator and Water Pump. Never changed in about 4 years...

Oil all over everything...messy, but stops the normal Metro rust out death.
Oil on the belt...

Yet you folks are having problems...

What is the difference then ?

Does all this boil down to Pulley Glaze ? The more it squeals, the worse the glaze ?

If you use the Flat Belt with ridges, then deglazing shouldn't be very difficult.

If you have a "V" belt, well.....hmmm? Wire Brush on a drill ?

I'd imagine the direction you rub the glaze off matters - 90° across the Pulley, not along the belt travel direction - which makes it difficult to do.

The Belt will probably be glazed also. Does the Belt Manufacturer matter ?

Any of you who try deglazing, please let us know what happened.

A puzzlement !

DoctorBill over the Hill

Some Web Sites concerning "Deglazing" from a Google Search:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...A5_aY6-pIrxJTw
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...KBZg62Fuok0KSA
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...JDrjSVMdnN8k9g

[Woodie83]

I don't know Doc, I'm in the same boat as you. You need a good belt, Goodyear Gatorback is probably the best. It needs to be very tight, then retightened after 100 miles. Water pumps only last about 90K miles, but then again, so do timing belts, so who cares? Never had any trouble with alternator bearings, my alternators blow a diode around 120K without making a noise.

[redpepe]

i don't have the answers but i share similar experience .... and curiosity since i've tried a bunch of fixes unsuccessfully.

drbill, you say you don't have the problem but then you say:

---------------------------------

I have never had any problem - EXCEPT....

When I run all the electrical crap like Headlights, Heater Fan, Radio, Rear Window Defogger, etc all at once.

or

If I leave the lights on for even a few minutes after killing the engine.

Also - if your battery is old and won't hold a full charge.

My Metro leaks oil all over the engine and Alternator Belt and still doesn't squeal except as mentioned above.

If it starts squealing after I start the engine, I turn everything off and the squealing stops.

I let the engine run fast for a while to get the Belt to stop squealing and it usually stops squealing permanently.

----------------------------------

.... so evidently yours does sometimes squeal. mine is intermittent too but it sounds like mowfixer and others have a steady problem. all the variables mentioned could contribute i think and he says he's going through water pumps and belts unlike most of the rest of us.

i also noticed that squealing was more consistent in wet weather here in so cal.

[DOCTORBILL]

Oh yes...I don't have a consistent problem !

Mine will squeal if I run thru a deep puddle and water splashes up into the Belt or if I leave
my parking lights on when I go into a store.

The battery goes down and then on startup the Alternator is heavily tasked and the belt
squeals.

BUT - If I turn everything off, it usually quiets right down - then a few minutes of charging the battery
all by itself, and I can go.

That is why I asked about a battery drain.

Just a small drain and the Alternator is working hard for maybe a minute.

Heavy fog will condense on the Belt and make it squeal until it dries off.

I think that once a Glaze forms, you are screwed royally.

The WD-40 thing does seem to work in some instances.

I saw somewhere that the Glaze is "water soluble". Strange if true.

I have never tried washing with Windex, or 401, or maybe Comet Powder, or Babo, Kleen King for Stainless Steel would abrade
the Glaze off - acting as an abrasive in water - use with a toothbrush!

Hey - maybe sprinkle some Comet Cleanser, Babo, or "Kleen King" Stainless Steel powdered cleaner
right onto the pulley and let the belt clean the pulley just by spinning...
Then spray some water on it to wash the powder off while the engine idles.
Might work. I'll try almost anything once....except Russian Roulette.

If one could change all the pulleys for twice the width, this problem would disappear, in my Humble Opinion.

The Belt chosen by the designers is a marginal one.

DoctorBill over the Hill

[redpepe]

right you are drbill. marginal indeed but optimal for economy.

some thoughts re belts. friction is partly a matter of surface contact area but with the old v belts 'friction' was also increased in the groove by the bending of the flexible belt. the inner part of the v necessarily expanded laterally as the belt wrapped around the sheeve. the expansion locked the belt into the groove. i'm not sure if the same action is at work with the multi groove belts but it should be. once the belt is worn by enough slippage though, the expansion can never be sufficient to lock into the groove .... and the new style belt is limited for the depth that it can be 'adjusted' further down into the groove. the real advantage of the flat, multi groove belts is their flexibility and the consequent reduced power requirements to drive them.

water is the natural lubricant for rubber. anything that holds water to the belt would make it slippery. if wd40 displaces water it might have an advantage. counterintuitive 'slippery logic' but i'll try it sometime.

[doug2060]

My 91 3cyl only squeals when it gets a good splash on a rainy day but my 98 4cyl is a pain in the ass. It just gets a little bit worse over time then I have to tighten the crap out of it and it's fine for a few months. Be sure to tighten top and bottom bolts. You can't just get by with the top bolt on these thin belts. You do have to get them VERY tight.

[Irk]

I totally agree with Woodie83. A Good Year gatorback belt solved my squealing problem. My car used to squeal very loud after morning startup especially in the winter time, but the squeal would only last about 30 seconds then go away. I replaced the serpentine belt with a good year gatorback belt about a year ago and it hasn't squealed at all since then.

[funracer]

I think you guys are overdoing the tight belt thing. My belts are loose
and they don't squeal. Try loosening.

[626map]

Have you cleaned and tightened all the electrical wire connections on the alternator? This solved a belt eating problem on another vehicle.

[Torqued]

I've had the same problem and what I've found is the rebuilt alternator is the bad guy. On the side of the alternator with 2 legs, one is bolted down solid and the rear (towards the drivers side) has a sliding bushing that is supposed to slip and make contact with the support bracket. Problem is that when this bolt is tightened, the bushing doesn't slip and a bending force is applied to the leg. This contorts the rear frame of the alternator and causes the rear bearing to lock up or drag heavily. This adds to the drag of the alternator and causes belt slip even if the belt is tight. This also causes a noticable whine from the alternator even when the belt isn't slipping and squealing.

Quick fix:
Loosen the lower bolt on the alternator that's toward the drivers side (away from the belt). If all gets better instantly, that's your problem. I used an Autozone rebuild and 2 in a row did the same thing. Get a warranty replacement and make sure that the slip bushing in fact will slip when the bolt/nut is tightened. (a hammer helps) (a knowledgeable rebuilder is better) I intend to be a pest until they get it right.

[Verdann]

So I found to day that what is causing my squeal is that the alternator pulley is not properly aligned with the water pump and crankshaft pulleys. It's also causing my car to eat through belts every couple of weeks. So that is also something to check.

[Bearwulf]

I'm like the "doc", My wifes 91 metro has no belt squeal. I just run ordinary NAPA belts 255k miles. 1.0 automatic, 41.5 highway traveling over 5,600 foot pass between Republic & Colville in East. WA.

[frogpond]

It is now 2015 Spring ! wow anyway the post by torqued explained the whole issue your belt should have a 1/4" deflection at the widest point if that one bolt as mention on that post by Torqued stated is to tight it won't allow the alternator to line it's self up with the other pulleys think in those terms rather than putting on due load on all your other bearing and bushing by having the belt to tight.




Regards, Paul