The Fastest and Furious Windstars :)

[s1120]

I would think you could easly pick up a few ponies replacing that stock exouast system. May not be, but sure looks restrictive!

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by s1120

I would think you could easly pick up a few ponies replacing that stock exouast system. May not be, but sure looks restrictive!

Thats what I had thought too, but apparently asking around I get answers that I might see MAYBE 7 - 12hp gain at the most and maybe not even that. I found this odd cause usually where you pick up the most power (short of forced induction or engine internals) is by upgrading the exhaust.

[jer1303]

7-12 honest HP gain from a cat-back upgrade is about right. Some cars don't even get that. Even bigger gains can be had if you upgrade the manifolds, too. I know the exaust manifolds pose large restrictions to the blown 3.8's in the T-Bird SC's; but I'm sure finding them mass-produced would be a task, and probably expensive..

FWIW the IMRC's on my '98 activate at 1,500 RPM. (seems low, but in spec according to FSMs)

[searcherrr]

The biggest problem I'm having with all this is that I want to do it on a remanned engine, but if I do and they somehow find out about it it'll void my warranty. Its made me think about getting a used good condition engine, but of my engine year 1995 I don't know how many there are GOOD like that with the head gaskets n all.

Also I talked to Jasper Engines just now and I told them that its nearly the same engine in my windstar 95 and in the mustang 95 and he says its NOT. I cannot understand how its not or what his definition is, but from looking up parts for those engines online they seem virtually the same. They or any other reman engine shop will not warranty the engine if any performance work is done to it. POOP.

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by jer1303

7-12 honest HP gain from a cat-back upgrade is about right. Some cars don't even get that. Even bigger gains can be had if you upgrade the manifolds, too. I know the exaust manifolds pose large restrictions to the blown 3.8's in the T-Bird SC's; but I'm sure finding them mass-produced would be a task, and probably expensive..

FWIW the IMRC's on my '98 activate at 1,500 RPM. (seems low, but in spec according to FSMs)

So yer saying that even if I upgrade my Dual cat Ypipe and the exhaust thereafter the exhaust headers themselves will be the bottle neck thereby wasting the Dual cat Yipe and exhaust thereafter upgrade?

I would CERTAINLY doubt that anyone has made any different exhaust headers for the Windstar AND I really doubt they are the same shape/dimensions on the 95 Stang engine I've been comparing to.

A note on what Jasper told me. I'm still not buying it entirely. I just looked up the oil pump for the Windstar and Mustang 95 year and the part numbers are the same. Thats yet another part that tells me its the same long block.

[jer1303]

I'm not saying it will be a wasted venture..you'll surely gain power from a cat-back and y-pipe upgrade. But many times you can gain power from a good manifold upgrade/porting too.

I know they made headers that fit the T-Bird 3.8's.. if they were to bolt up to the Windstar's 3.8, a good exaust shop should be able to fit the y-pipe to them, assuming there is room.

[s1120]

From when I had the Y off of my 96 the manafolds did not look that bad. The Y had some bad bends in it though. I bet fabbing a bigger dia mandral bent Y, with a nicly disigned collector and high flow cats, and the cat back will wake it up.

[BlueCaprice]

Originally Posted by s1120

I bet fabbing a bigger dia mandral bent Y, with a nicly disigned collector and high flow cats, and the cat back will wake it up.

Hee, hee, so will a Supercharger

(More picks of the same van)

[searcherrr]

And ya gotta know when ta hold'em..... know when ta fold'em..... know when to walk away.... know when to run.... you gotta count your money....

Anyway, rearranged my thoughts.

I had been discussing in another forum putting the M90 supercharger from the Thunderbird SC's onto my Windstar engine to make up some more HP. BUT....What if I just Nix the M90 idea and just do this 85-95 Stage 2+ kit: http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/p...3PowerPaks.pdf

With the 155 HP consumerguideauto says I have in my Windstar adding that kit would put me "around" 230 HP before any other mods right? or does that kit assume other mods in place?

In any case my main most question is I've been looking all this time at a long block reman engine. Well if I get Super Six Motorsport's KIT I don't need a full long block right?? Then I can just get a remanned short block and slap SSM's kit on top and be in business right?

If I did it like this what other mods would I need?
I know I have to take care of the exhaust all the way, but the exhaust manifolds bother me cause I don't think I'd have any other way to upgrade those besides getting them customized or having a custom dual cat ypipe.

Another idea I'm playing with, but I can't get on the SCCOA forum to see is if I can't just order a remanned SC thunderbird engine with the SC already installed and then add the SSM Power Pak kit to that.... or rather the SC short block w/ SC and associated setup aside so I can install it and the Power Pak kit thereafter. But I think I will HAVE to get the SC engine computer if I put on the SC... not too sure though. Need sleep. Losing comprehension. aaaaaaaaahhhhhh

I am also looking into a possibly more beefed up tranny which states is for towing up to an additional 4000lbs and for extra hp of up to 100hp over stock. Ya'll were talking about traction issues and the AX4S tranny would probably not last with higher HP and TORQUE... ALTHOUGH it really isn't going to be THAT much higher than what all the Windstars 96-03 put out NOW. I would be satisfied at a 230-240 HP range which I could probably MAKE in power with the SSM kit I reference and an exhaust system upgrade (hopefully can figure something out with the exhaust manifolds). Thereby leaving the SC out of the equation I then have 1 less non-OEM-FORD thing to worry about in the engine bay.... cause I've seen some maintenance kits and/or remachined parts of the blower on ebay and that just had me thinking.... more maintenance.... whereas if I do the KIT that stuff is internal to the engine and probably will NEVER need maintenance.

What ya'll think?

And if I don't go with a beefier tranny.... how long you think my rebuilt one will last me? Again, its only 20k miles old.

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by s1120

From when I had the Y off of my 96 the manafolds did not look that bad. The Y had some bad bends in it though. I bet fabbing a bigger dia mandral bent Y, with a nicly disigned collector and high flow cats, and the cat back will wake it up.

I have found exactly such a setup between a Magnaflow Dual Cat Ypipe and a Borla Cat-Back exhaust system... all the way back. Ya think that would be worth at least 10 ponies? I know I'm going back n forth over this, but man Magnaflow and Borla are great brands. I still probably won't FEEL the 10HP even if its there though right??? and that setup would cost $711 alone and thats without modifying/replacing the exhaust manifolds.

[searcherrr]

Awww mannnnn....... that Kenny Brown stuff looks great! Gonna go read.... for now though here's what I've come up with for my situation (still not considering the M90 idea anymore, but maybe I'll change that stance one day):

Well this is the breakdown and these are slight over-estimates on labor just in case:

NEW SHORT BLOCK: Trusted shop putting it together and trusted shop installing it

$175 compcam
$2125 to purchase top half Performance Pack from Super Six Motorsports: http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/p...3PowerPaks.pdf
$200 core to be returned when shipping the stuff back to SSM
Total: $2500 TOTAL just to SSM alone not including shipping to me

$1200 Trusted shop install engine itself
$1000 short block from somewhere
$300 core for block; to be refunded
Total: $4700 total with SSM stuff installed (-$325 if get lower package)

Total: $6537 w/ beef tranny installed $1837
Total: $7248 w/ exhaust installed $711
Total: $7748 w the other stuff i want done $500
Total: $7998 w/ fuel pump n labor estimated at $250 with part

and I'm sure I'm forgetting something somewhere... I buried gaskets and misc in labor costs, but something somewhere would pop up. Even if I take off the beefy tranny the total is still around $6000. It would be nice to have that power ya know..... but I don't know if slapping out 6 to 8k is worth it for a mere 240HPish .... I mean I'm used to a lot more from other sports cars and while I know I'd feel the difference its a LOT OF JACK to shell out to get myself some good towing power and better gas mileage. I might realize that better gas mileage in what.... 5 or more years???? OR maybe even... in 6 months the way things are going with gas prices huh? LOL

What ya'll think?

OH.... and there are two other things: If I did get the new beefed up tranny I'd sell my rebuilt one with only 20k on it and a transferrable warranty for about 1000 - 1200. That would be money back in the pocket for sure.... but also if I went with a Long Block remanned.... had the shop disassemble it and put the SSM power pack on then I could sell the upper/lower intake, heads, etc... online probably for at least what..... 600-800 ??? But at the same time I've lost cost on them disassembling and having to put the whole thing back together which is why I was thinking short block to begin with.

I SERIOUSLY WANT TO DO IT..... BUT MAAAAAAAANNNNNNN...... WHAT A GOUGE OF THE WALLET !!!!!

How easily could I disassemble and reassemble the heads, lower/upper intake, etc.. when its off the vehicle? I'm very capable, but how much technical data do I need to do the job right.... such as torque specs, knowing what to seal, where to seal, etc...?

[searcherrr]

I heard on the other forum I've been talking in that Kenny Brown isn't doing much with cars these days cause of health issues. Thats really too bad cause I'm all ready for him...... just not with the $$$$$. LOL

Its sad, but I'm probably gonna go ahead with the standard reman engine replacement. I'll think it over tomorrow and make my decision.

[s1120]

Originally Posted by searcherrr

I have found exactly such a setup between a Magnaflow Dual Cat Ypipe and a Borla Cat-Back exhaust system... all the way back. Ya think that would be worth at least 10 ponies? I know I'm going back n forth over this, but man Magnaflow and Borla are great brands. I still probably won't FEEL the 10HP even if its there though right??? and that setup would cost $711 alone and thats without modifying/replacing the exhaust manifolds.

Magnaflow and Borla make stuff for Windstars????!!!>>

Did not know that. Well if you need the stuff anyway, you would have to subtract the cost of the stock stuff. Also Borla stuff is pricy. Good, but pricy. Maybe you can get the cat back done cheaper somewere.

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by s1120

Magnaflow and Borla make stuff for Windstars????!!!>>

Did not know that. Well if you need the stuff anyway, you would have to subtract the cost of the stock stuff. Also Borla stuff is pricy. Good, but pricy. Maybe you can get the cat back done cheaper somewere.

The BORLA thing I found is discontinued and is remaining stock.

The Magnaflow YPipe may be the same situation.

What do you mean subtract the cost of stock stuff? OHHHH.... you mean if I were to entertain going with FORD OEM parts? I'd never entertain that though. Its just not worth it for some of these things... I believe in sticking to OEM for certain stuff... like sensors etc..... but the exhaust isn't one of those things for me.

[searcherrr]

Here is an EXCELLENT AX4S / AXOD / AX4N 3 page article/report. It spells out the issues for our trannies VERY WELL:
http://www.transonline.com/transDige...ers/index.html

That has to be the best reference I know of. Shows application for what year etc.. and numbers for all vehicles using those trannies as well as GEAR RATIO information and known problems.