Passlock System

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by edfromut

I have an 03 Alero. It cranked but failed to start last week. I'm not sure I heard the fuel pump run or not. The next day I turned the key to On and I heard the fuel pump run for a few seconds and then it turned off. I proceded to crank it and it started right up. It started and ran for several days with no problems. Then yesterday it would crank but not start again. I turned the key to on and I did not hear the fuel pump prime the system. I did hear a couple of clicks under the hood. Also when I turned off the key I heard a series of about 6 clicks right in the engine area. I checked the fuel pump relay and the fuses under the hood and everything was OK. Is this a PK problem, an ignition cylinder problem, or maybe a BCM problem? Is the fuel pump acting up? When I cranked the engine the Security light stays on for just a few seconds and then goes out. If this is a PK problem will the fuel pump still kick on or do the fuel injectors just cut out? Do I hear the F/I clicking under the hood when I turn the key off? I never heard this before. Any help would be greatly appreciated

E

Welcome to AF
It sounds more like a engine starting running problem.
You have to have spark and fuel pressure first thing to check.
Try running a post in the Alero forum for help on it.
If Triped.
The anti theft system cuts injector pulse within or after a couple seconds of engine starting.
If light comes on with a key on buld check and then goes out it it should be OK.
MT

[chevo]

hi im new to this site but like all of us here im here in search of some help. I have looked threw almost all of these post and have not gotten an answer to my problem well today i went to the store and wen i got into my car it did not start and btw im 40 miles from home with my wife and kid and with frozen food in the trunk. well anyway after 3 hours of watiing for aride i got home and got online here to see if i could get help well i have tried the 10 min methode of reseting and nothing i have done it for like 4 hours striaght now and the battery is dead now so im stuck with this car oh sorry the car is a 98 chevy malibu someone please help me start my car i dont have the money to get it towed or to get it fixed at the moment

thanks

[ponchonutty]

Originally Posted by MT-2500

Welcome to AF
It sounds more like a engine starting running problem.
You have to have spark and fuel pressure first thing to check.
Try running a post in the Alero forum for help on it.
If Triped.
The anti theft system cuts injector pulse within or after a couple seconds of engine starting.
If light comes on with a key on buld check and then goes out it it should be OK.
MT

Normally even if the PK2 system is shutting down the the car, the fuel pump is still on and working. Like MT said, the PK2 system shuts down the injectors, not the fuel pump. You may have a fuel pump or other associated issue.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by chevo

hi im new to this site but like all of us here im here in search of some help. I have looked threw almost all of these post and have not gotten an answer to my problem well today i went to the store and wen i got into my car it did not start and btw im 40 miles from home with my wife and kid and with frozen food in the trunk. well anyway after 3 hours of watiing for aride i got home and got online here to see if i could get help well i have tried the 10 min methode of reseting and nothing i have done it for like 4 hours striaght now and the battery is dead now so im stuck with this car oh sorry the car is a 98 chevy malibu someone please help me start my car i dont have the money to get it towed or to get it fixed at the moment

thanks

Welcome to AF.

I quick question does the security come on with key on and then go out after the bulb check or stay on full time?

Sounds like you are in a tight spot.
With out a scanner or test equipment it is hard to tell what the problem is.
If you are 40 miles from home and no money for tow.
Better see if the store parking lot will let you leave it there a few days.
If you have any way to get some money the for repair.
I would suggest you contact a good repair shop and see if they will have it towed to there shop for you and check it out you.
Good Luck and let us know how it goes.
Also you might get some help by running a post in the Malibu forum.
MT

[mikea1962]

Thanks very much to everybody for the details on how to disable this Passlock system. It's an Olds Intrigue, not a Chevy, but this is a major common GM problem that GM refuses to accept responsibility for. Neither the dealer nor the company would cut me a break despite this being a major design defect. They wouldn't even acknowledge it's a problem. Cutting the yellow wire with the engine running and inserting a toggle switch worked and I saved $500.

Added bonus: since the theft system is now disabled, there's a better chance somebody can steal my car. Please do! I won't have to deal with the next GM design problem that crops up (Passlock in the third, following frequent wiper motor failure and a seized AC compressor at 30K miles.) Life-long GM owner, but this is the last.

Thanks again.

[slls]

Originally Posted by mikea1962

Thanks very much to everybody for the details on how to disable this Passlock system. It's an Olds Intrigue, not a Chevy, but this is a major common GM problem that GM refuses to accept responsibility for. Neither the dealer nor the company would cut me a break despite this being a major design defect. They wouldn't even acknowledge it's a problem. Cutting the yellow wire with the engine running and inserting a toggle switch worked and I saved $500.

Added bonus: since the theft system is now disabled, there's a better chance somebody can steal my car. Please do! I won't have to deal with the next GM design problem that crops up (Passlock in the third, following frequent wiper motor failure and a seized AC compressor at 30K miles.) Life-long GM owner, but this is the last.

Thanks again.

As we all know GM sees fit to ignore design problems, they are now paying the price for the neglect. Could never figure out why they chose not to drop the Malibu name, it is the poster for poor quality.

[PennyAnte]

I do know something is rearming the security system. I've installed the toggle switch as instructed and it's working fine. I turn the car off with the security light on (meaning the security system is disabled) but when I start the vehicle up, the key won't start it and the security light is not ON. I've tried turning the car off with the switch activated (arming the security system) hoping I might have installed backwards, but that doesnt work either. I just want to always be able to start the car with the key, NOT the remote starter, and I dont want to wait 10 mins or whatever. Any ideas on what is reactivating the security system? I want to remove or disable the remote start so that I can see, after disarming the security system with the switch, if the security system stays deactivated. I know that if I can get the system to stay deactivated, the car will start with the key. I understand there might be a fuse in the harness of the remote start (under the dash) that I could take out to disable the remote start.

If they installed the remote start improperly to begin with, could it be reactivating the security system?
Any ideas would be appreciated.

[GouldmanRS]

Well, it looks like it happened to me, it is -5 degrees here and My car will turn over but not start. If I turn the key to "on" for 10 or 12 minutes and it starts. I have a 2000 Grand Am GT and I am not looking forward to spending the money to have this replaced.

I have read through this thread a couple of times and I wanted to summarize what I have learned to make sure I don’t screw up my car any worse. I'm not very good with this kind of stuff, but I have a brother that will do all the work for me.

Basically, the passlock system that is built into my car is meant to keep you from sticking a screwdriver into the ignition to start it. When you put in a key, two magnates send a current through the key and the computer measures the resistance. If the resistance is within the limit, the car starts, If not then it just turns over without starting.

To replace this system, it is alittle over 500 bucks (give or take a few). But there may be three ways to get around this. They were discovered because people were trying to hookup remote starters and the theft lock was killing the engine. The first is spray cleaner into the ignition to clean the magnets... Check… and no change… Use a different key and it works sometimes.

The second is if you can get the car running (e.g. the signal makes it to the computer) then cut the cable, the computer registers the broken circuit and goes into a failover mode. At that point the car will start no matter if the passlock system is working or not. The draw back is that the security light in the dash stays on and if the power goes out (e.g. the battery dies or need to be jumped) the computer resets and goes out of the failover mode. Some people put in switches so they can control this but you run the risk of the ignition being really broken and never getting it to start again which is necessary to get it into the failover mode.

The last idea is to measure what the set resistance is for your key and put in a comparable resistor instead of a switch. Basically, you bypass the ignition and the computer always thinks the correct key is being used. This way, if you the battery ever goes dead then you dont run the risk of not being able to start it again. Somebody had drawn a MS Paint diagram of this bypass but nobody really responded to it. Is it correct?

Anyway, If there is any information that is not correct or accurate, please let me know. I hope to start working on my car tonight (in the -5 degree weather.) and any frustration that I can avoid would be very much appreciated.

[MT-2500]

Key on bulb test the security light comes on for bulb and ststem test.
If the light goes out everything on security system is OK.
If not it shuts off the injectors and keeps the engine from starting.
Some times the key on for 10-20 will override it.

But if it is tripping the light there is a problem with the system.
I would suggest a good engine capable scannner to get the code and find out where the problem is.
Post back code.
Depending on the problem a lot of them can be fixed with out to much.
The chev Malbui has a lot of major problems.
Some times the best deal on them is the bypass.

To bypass it look back threw all of the post here on it.
MT

[Hoppy2]

GouldmanRS,

You summed up the entire 15 pages in one simple post! Good luck with it, unfortunately, if you are having problems and try to check the resistance of the switch you may be getting a wrong reading that the computer is also getting.

I may be wrong, but may suggest if anyone has any comments on whether this is correct or not, but what if you take a reading of the resistance, replace the switch with the same resistance with resistors, then do the "Relearn" on the system with the 10 minute ignition on procedure.

I have had no problem with the resistor install on my Intrigue. Lately it has been getting into the single digits in Fahrenheit and the car starts with no problem, even with the remote starter.

[logoody]

Well my saga for the Passlock has finally ended, No I didn't get rid of the Malibu. I fixed it, cost was around 100 bucks, and it should be permanent or at least for another 5 years.
First I was having intermittent failures, similar to those posted elsewhere on this and other newsgroups. I went to a very experienced automotive electrician and got detailed schematics of the Passlock or Passkey system used in ALL GM vehicles from 1998 to 2005.

There is an optional system that uses a coded key with a chip resistor in it. Look at your key and see if it has a number or # stamped on it, that and only that key will work.

Mine is a non coded key, or a standard passkey or passlock II system. The key actuates a pair of magnets that pass in the vicinity of a pair of Hall-effect sensors, basically a pair of transistor switches that use a magnetic field as a turn on junction for them. They are each attached to a precision resistor that drops the voltage on the yellow (data) wire, referenced to the black (ground) wire. The data line carries about 5.5 volts normally with the key off, when my key went to start that voltage dropped to 2.088 volts and stayed at that voltage until the key was taken to off. The next start cycle it repeated. A no-start (crank) cycle was 4-5 volts, a tamper was >2.2 volts or <1.8 volts and would cut off the engine after a few seconds.
I measured the voltage then cut the yellow wire after noting the correct START sequence, i.e. the engine started. When I cut the yellow wire the engine was not running but I made sure the voltages were correct, I put the shifter in "R" and did the "START" sequence and checked the voltage before I cut the wire. The "Theft System" annunciator came on just like it is supposed to. I then measured the resistance from the yellow wire on the ignition switch to the black wire and found 1808 ohms, NOTE this is my value yours WILL be different, there are thousands of combinations. I then when to my local Radio Shack and got the necessary resistor to substitute for the above resistance from the hall-effec sensors. I then slid a piece of heat shrink tubing (electrical tape will work) over the yellow wire to the BCM and soldered the resistor to the yellow wire and to the black wire. Now my passkey is permanently set to good data.

Do not try to unplug the three wires from the lock assembly, you will ruin the connector and possibly the lock. The lock must be partially removed to unplug the connector, easy enough, turn you key to run and press the square metal button on the bottom of the ignition switch the whole tumbler and key will slip out, remove it about 1/2 inch then disconnect the connector. You can put the correct resistor between the yellow and black pins , then tape the connector and resistor up, and slide the lock back in.

Well on with my saga, I did the above resistor modification after some experiments to see what values did what, I wrote everything down.

About a week after I did the modifications I noted the vehicle was cranking again and not starting, being the technician I am I started noting symptoms. Turn key all idiot lights light, go to start display goes blank, NO START. Turn key idiot lights stay on vehicle starts, turn key idiot lights stay on then blink off no start. Tells me the ignition switch is FUBAR (Fu--ed up beyond all recognition) anyhow I replaced the ignition switch with a brand new ACdelco part an lo-and-behold it worked perfectly, hence the $100 cause that's what the switch goes for. The part # is ACD1432D, use only this part. You have to take out the instrument cluster to put it in but it takes about 20 minutes, half dozen body clips and 2 screws above the instrument cluster trim piece, 9 hex head screws, (6 if you don't pull the radio) but it makes it easier to get two hands in there.

pat

[Zelig]

Hi everyone,

I just had a couple of questions.
I, like everyone else here, have been having problems with the passlock on my 2001 Chevy Mailbu. I have read through all the posts here (took me a long time, lol!) as well as on some other message boards, and I decided I'm going to install the toggle switch.

Many people have said that you need to have the engine running before cutting the yellow wire. And that makes sense if all I'm going to do is cut the wire and cap off the ends. But if I'm using a toggle switch. I should be able to cut the wire and install the switch with the engine off, and just make sure the switch is in closed position when starting the car. Then just put the switch in open position after its started. I mean, thats essentially the same thing right?

Another thing I wanted to bring up is someone (forgot the name, sorry) was saying that he didnt recommend installing a toggle switch (use resistor instead) because if the battery konks out, the car wont start. Which again makes sense, but I mean, if that happens the switch can just be placed back into the closed position after the new battery is put in (or charged) and started as normal...or am I incorrect on this? I have seen other sites where they said this can be done.
The reason I would rather use the switch instead of a resistor is because I have never done soldering before and would rather not try it for the first time on my car...LOL! But a switch should be very easy for me to wire in.

Thanks,

[Admiral Michael]

Well I haven't done it yet but I would prefer the resistor method only because with the toggle you will get a check engine light which would annoy the hell out of me.

Question to those who have done the resistor method: would it work on a 2003 3.4L impala?

[slls]

Originally Posted by Zelig

Hi everyone,

I just had a couple of questions.
I, like everyone else here, have been having problems with the passlock on my 2001 Chevy Mailbu. I have read through all the posts here (took me a long time, lol!) as well as on some other message boards, and I decided I'm going to install the toggle switch.

Many people have said that you need to have the engine running before cutting the yellow wire. And that makes sense if all I'm going to do is cut the wire and cap off the ends. But if I'm using a toggle switch. I should be able to cut the wire and install the switch with the engine off, and just make sure the switch is in closed position when starting the car. Then just put the switch in open position after its started. I mean, thats essentially the same thing right?

Another thing I wanted to bring up is someone (forgot the name, sorry) was saying that he didnt recommend installing a toggle switch (use resistor instead) because if the battery konks out, the car wont start. Which again makes sense, but I mean, if that happens the switch can just be placed back into the closed position after the new battery is put in (or charged) and started as normal...or am I incorrect on this? I have seen other sites where they said this can be done.
The reason I would rather use the switch instead of a resistor is because I have never done soldering before and would rather not try it for the first time on my car...LOL! But a switch should be very easy for me to wire in.

Thanks,

Your right in a way. If after your battery replacement, when you put the switch on, you may have to do the 10 min reset to get it started and running, then open the switch.

[logoody]

Originally Posted by Zelig

Hi everyone,

I just had a couple of questions.
I, like everyone else here, have been having problems with the passlock on my 2001 Chevy Mailbu. I have read through all the posts here (took me a long time, lol!) as well as on some other message boards, and I decided I'm going to install the toggle switch.

Many people have said that you need to have the engine running before cutting the yellow wire. And that makes sense if all I'm going to do is cut the wire and cap off the ends. But if I'm using a toggle switch. I should be able to cut the wire and install the switch with the engine off, and just make sure the switch is in closed position when starting the car. Then just put the switch in open position after its started. I mean, thats essentially the same thing right?

Another thing I wanted to bring up is someone (forgot the name, sorry) was saying that he didnt recommend installing a toggle switch (use resistor instead) because if the battery konks out, the car wont start. Which again makes sense, but I mean, if that happens the switch can just be placed back into the closed position after the new battery is put in (or charged) and started as normal...or am I incorrect on this? I have seen other sites where they said this can be done.
The reason I would rather use the switch instead of a resistor is because I have never done soldering before and would rather not try it for the first time on my car...LOL! But a switch should be very easy for me to wire in.

Thanks,

Either the toggle or the resistor method requires soldering unless you care to mount the toggle right next to the ignition switch which will need a hole in the dash. You will need to extend the wires and using crimp on terminals is not a good method although it will work. I actually went through the resistor install and then again had problems starting. Turns out the ignition switch itself was all carboned up and needed replacement which took less time then the resistor method.

The switch was $100 and I left the resistor in.

goody