Diesel Truck, Tubo outlet temp, Intercooler ducting

[isuzu 4bd1t]

Originally Posted by Moppie

Which hill are you running up the North Western?
If its the one near the end of the motorway then carrying 4,500 tones with a final speed of 92kph is pretty damn good.
Especialy that your not supposed to do more than 90kph anyway

Yes the hill at the end of the motorway.
Of course I was only doing 100km/h in the interests of research and science...its a bit like the way Japanese count whales!

[rawill]

At last a site where I might find some info. Good to see a fellow campervanner trying to get his van up hills at 100k. My goal too!!. 4400kg, 178 mitsi canter 4dr5 engine. I am trying to find out if I can turbo it. Some said no it only a handgrenade anyway, however, they are turboed in mitsi jeeps overseas. I also saw a guy who had one in Fuso that was going to turbo it. The power rating of the turboed, intercooled jeeps goes from 176 nm torque to 225 nm torque. Now my question is, does anyone know if teh 4dr5s have oil spray jets going up into the underside of the crown of the piston. And are the conrods tough enough to take the extra strain put on if it is turboed. 100km is fast enough for me, I just want to climb hills easier.

[Moppie]

Mitsi makes a turbo'd version of the canter, and I know they will pull 4,000kgs gross up the bombays at an easy 100kph. But thats an empty box truck, so either you have a very light weight camper, or a very small canter.

If your another Kiwi then I know roadlife in Manukau can do turbo conversions, otherwise you might want to find a Japanese Used parts wrecker who can import a turbo'd enigne out of a 155, it should drop right in.

[rawill]

7.5 meter campervan, not much room to put another engine in there except maybe a 4dr7. It is the old version of Canter (78), narrow front wheelbase, wider rear wheelbase. Yes a kiwi, Riverton NZ. And this engine was rebuilt, pistons rebore etc 40 000 km ago, just before I bought it. So not too keen to trow it away even though it is underpowered, 80 ps at 3700rpm (so far as I can tell)

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by rawill

80 ps at 3700rpm (so far as I can tell)

Yikes, thats not a lot, althought it would have been state of the art in 1978.
All the new model canters start 120hp for that size chassis, and go up to about 160hp.


You might get away with some low pressure turbo charging, prehaps only 4-5psi.
You would need to build some custom parts, like exhaust manifold.
The turbo would be easy to sourse, the turbo canters use an off the shelf Garret unit, very similar to whats on the Mitsi Evolution lance.
You will need something in size.

[rawill]

Yes you are right, it is not much at all!!, and you don't have to drive it!!

I have seen a car turboed that had the turbo after the flange on the exhaust manifold, so in effect it was mounted in the ehaust pipe. So no change to the Ex manifold. I cant see why I can't do it. I though the biggest issue would be attaching the inlet pipe to the inlet manifold. The turboed 4DR5s in the jeeps didn't lift the hp much only the torque. I figured if I could get away with it, without blowing the engine it might be worth it.

[rawill]

One person suggested if I was putting in another engine I should put in a 4D31T. Another reason for not wanting to change the engine is I don't want to change the gearbox. It is a column change which is real good for the camper. It has swivel front seats and a floor change would just get in the way. The front section is all living space, not like some vans where it is only driving space.

[Moppie]

A column change would be very nice.
An increase in hp normaly requires an increase in RPM as well, which you can't do. Its the increase in torque you want.

Turbos work of a differnce in heat and pressure accross the manifold, in theory the closer they are to the exhaust ports in the head, the better they will work.
You can plumb them in further down the exhaust stream, but they become less and less efficant. However, since your only looking for a low boost aplication that might not be such a big problem.

[rawill]

thnx already for the comments, yes exactly right, more power, (torque) not hp needed. Yes the column change is nice. Our van started as a truck, then it was stripped to a chassis, cab thrown away as well, and they started to build it from scratch. so it is 2.3 wide outside, 2.2 inside, and as I said the front is usable like a bus campervan is. The engine box is not very big either. So I figured that if I can turbo it without blowing it up it will make nice van to drive as well as live in.

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by isuzu 4bd1t

Can anyone advise. I have a non modified Isuzu 4BD1T truck diesel. It has a 2" diameter thin wall steel pipe going directly from the standard turbo (about 5 psi boost I believe) Directly to the inlet manifold.

Aim is to get this to go up hills better with out having to change down as many gears.

Can anyone advise/guess the likely MAX teperature of the pipe going between the turbo and the inlet manifold? (Just a rough guess would be OK.) keeping in mind this is a low pressure trubo installation.

The reason for asking is that I am thinking about adding an intercooler and I have been looking at using some non silicon flexible pipe work. Rigid pipe work would be a real mission to get to an intercooler in front of the radiator. I have found some rubber hosing that wil take 150 degrees celsius and wondering if this will survive?

Can anyone advise if I intercool this with out changing the fueling am I likely to see any gain in power? and if so what woudl be a real rough guess in percentage terms?

I have a range rover with the same engine.
Mine runs 15psi boost and I have had the joy of instrumenting several parts of it (intake temps, exhaust temps, exhaust pressure etc).

With 15psi boost on a turbo with rooted compressor blades, the air temp at turbo outlet reaches around 150 C.
With 15psi on a turbo with good compressor blades the charge temp is down to 120 C.

Rubber radiator hose will handle these conditions for a short while, before oil degrades it.
Fuel hose will handle these conditions almost indefinitely. Silicon turbo hose will do the same job as the fuel hose for about 5 times the cost.

The formula for working out charge temps
Temp rise = compression ratio^(1.4-1/1.4)
Adiabatic outlet temp = inlet temp in kelvin (i.e 293K=20C) x temp rise
actual temp rise = adiabatic temp rise divided by efficiency

To save you some work, I have a spreadsheet.
5psi boost (I think you're running more) = 53 deg C outlet temp (20C inlet) with a 65% efficient turbo compressor.

[David MacInnes]

I've just finished fitting a TD05 turbo to my 1994 Canter Motor home. (I too want to go up hills a bit quicker) I am amazed at the difference. A local hill I used to struggle up in 4th and just hang onto 60 klm on, I now fly up in 5th and can maintain 75klm,very happy with that. The truck feels much stronger and as if it wants to pull, rather than 'please don't make me go up another hill, I'll die" its really worth the effort. I am running 7.5 PSI boost and we ran the diesel pump adjusting screw in 2 full turns. It blows a bit of smoke if you pump the pedal down hard, but clears after a second or two right out to 3200 revs. Very happy if you just press down evenly and run along, no smoke. I am fitting an Exhaust Temp gauge and looking at a boost gauge just to be able to monitor whats going on. its interesting. Another bonus is it takes that un earthly sucking sound from the air cleaner under the passengers feet away. Very happy so far

[David MacInnes]

Sorry, my motor is a 4D31NA. I fitted a turbo to it and will keep the fingers crossed re longevity. Does anyone know what Temp I should be looking for at the exit from the Turbo. I have fitted the sender unit in the first curve directly after the Turbo. Thanks

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by David MacInnes

Sorry, my motor is a 4D31NA. I fitted a turbo to it and will keep the fingers crossed re longevity. Does anyone know what Temp I should be looking for at the exit from the Turbo. I have fitted the sender unit in the first curve directly after the Turbo. Thanks

750C is the limit for turbo inlet, put your own safety factor on that. More boost (and better intercooling) lowers EGT's, more fuel raises EGT's.
Unfortunately your probe in the exhaust down-pipe isn't much use, the temperature across the turbo continually changes, rough rules of thumb (100C drop, 200C drop etc) either drop performance un-necessarily or endanger your engine. If you really need to know, you need the probe in the manifold.

Make sure the probe is long enough to reach the centre of the gas stream.

[David MacInnes]

The probe is about 75mm away from the outlet of the turbo. The EGT gauge came with instructions and this is where it indicated the sending unit could go.
I was wondering about the length of the probe, thats cleared that up, thanks.
So if 750c is the inlet temp of the turbo, If I allowed maybe 50 to 100c drop across the trubo and try and keep it around the 650C max area? I have fitted an intercooler . Thanks for your comments, so far I am very happy with the result.

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by David MacInnes

The probe is about 75mm away from the outlet of the turbo. The EGT gauge came with instructions and this is where it indicated the sending unit could go.
I was wondering about the length of the probe, thats cleared that up, thanks.
So if 750c is the inlet temp of the turbo, If I allowed maybe 50 to 100c drop across the trubo and try and keep it around the 650C max area? I have fitted an intercooler . Thanks for your comments, so far I am very happy with the result.

650 post turbo is too hot, especially for a previosly non turbo engine which is unlikely to have piston oil squirters and alfin (steel reinforced) pistons. In the worst conditions you'll have over 200C across the turbine. 550C is a better figure, but post turbo is a guessing game.

The EGT gauge makers say post-turbo because they can't instruct the average muppet to drill and tap their exhaust manifold or turbo housing. They are protecting their own skin. I run a 3mm probe in the exhaust manifold and it's been perfectly good for the last 6 years.