C23-2003GA comparo.

[ales]

I haven't heard any information if Ferrari are planning to run a third car on Fridays. Heard anything?

And if Williams and Mclaren can't beat Sauber they are no threat to Ferrari.

[RallyRaider]

Originally Posted by ales

I haven't heard any information if Ferrari are planning to run a third car on Fridays. Heard anything?

I was assumimg it was the same setup as last year. Extra test session on Fridays if agree to limited non-meet test days. Looks like Sauber will take that option, hence Badoer's contract? How the single engine rule will work there

Originally Posted by ales

And if Williams and Mclaren can't beat Sauber they are no threat to Ferrari.

On a good Bridgestone day Ferrari/Sauber will be hoping for just that.

[ales]

Originally Posted by RallyRaider

I was assumimg it was the same setup as last year. Extra test session on Fridays if agree to limited non-meet test days. Looks like Sauber will take that option, hence Badoer's contract? How the single engine rule will work there

Nope, the big boys saw all the advantages of Friday testing and changed the rule. Also I think the engines blown on Friday do not count (I guess I need to find out for sure...)

Originally Posted by RallyRaider

On a good Bridgestone day Ferrari/Sauber will be hoping for just that.

Not just them, me too. Hell, I'll be cheering for Toyota if it's in front of any Williams

[djmr2]

About the cheating, pitpass.com posted an interesting article a while back about intellectual information. If you consider that using designs from another car/team cheating, then any team that hires someone from another team is considered cheating. So industrial espinoage happens everytime someone leaves a team and joins another. Whether its on paper or in someone's head it's all the same to me.

I think almost any team that has brought someone over from another team has at least tried to incorporate some ideas into their new cars. If toyota did use the plans exactly, I think they would have made a better car.

[ales]

Well, the allegations are in fact taht they used the data that the engineer took with him from Ferrari, and I don't mean in his head.

[RallyRaider]

Sorry to revisit this but I found this comparison pic. How many differences can you see? Apart from the changes due to 2004 regs, I can only see a couple, and they are more than likely because the Ferrari in the bottom pic is the early season launch car, compare it to a Suzuka spec car and they'd dissapear I reckon.

[crayzayjay]

I dont know what you're talking about phil, i dont see a single similarity, apart from the fact they've both got 4 wheels


Only kidding
You could quite easily be fooled for thinking it's the same car with a different paint job

[RallyRaider]

Would be interesting to do a similar comparison between the Benetton B195 and the Ligier JS41, of 1995. In that year the Ligier was nothing to write home about, hopefully the Sauber is the same. Not that I have anything against Sauber, well, apart from plagiarism.

[RallyRaider]

I once again apologise for belabouting the point, but I find this quite incredible. The Sauber C23 is not a copy of the F2003 - it IS last years Ferrari! At least aerodynamicly, check out these pictures. Besides the small triangular Gurney flaps and Renault style curved horizontal vanes on the end plates, the nose and front wing are identical. Check out the position of the panel lines on the sidepods, once again identical. The curves on the intakes and position of bolt holes and strakes on the barge boards, identical.

If this is a precedent can we expect to see the likes of McLaren and Williams selling their recent chassis to Minardi and Jordan? They ain't got full scale wind tunnels either...

[ales]

It has a shorter wheelbase, 2004 Engine and gearbox, and obviously all the changes required by 2004 rules. At the same time, it must be different under the skin, because they are said to have some innovative cooling system that Ferrari got/bought for themselves. Not that I see anything wrong with buying a design of a championship-winning car while your new windtunnel is still uncalibrated and can't be used to design your own car.

[RallyRaider]

Are you sure the wheelbase is shorter? Must be millimeters in it! There is something wrong with a constructor running a car that they didn't build, it's against the rules I believe. I guess Sauber have "assembled" this one, they sure didn't design the shape. What's under the skin

[zebrathree]

Industrial intelligence is all the rage right now.

It wouldn't surprise me if Ferrari, Mac, et el, all have a secret division dedicated to intel and counter intel.