headers anyone?

[GreyGoose006]

is anyone using headers on their third gen and if so which ones?
mine has a 350 instead of the stock 305.

anyone got a link or advice?
thanks

[wrightz28]

edlebrock TES, flows better, sounds better, and still keeps it emissions friendly.

[GreyGoose006]

well the smog pump has been removed by the previous owner.
i would like to reatain my O2 sensor if possible

[wrightz28]

You need to retain the o2, no way around that one. the bung is on the y-pipe and ready.

[GreyGoose006]

but what about the smog pump.
i dont have it.
everything having to do with a smog pump on that car is gone.
can i get a suggestion of headers that will work and dont have piping for a smog pump?
(i dont like the looks of capping it off, but i know thats a possibility.)

also, how much harder will it be to change sparkplugs with headers?
as i understand it, shortys make it damn near impossible and full lengths will make it possibly easier depending on how they are made.

links?

[Morley]

SLP stainless headers...love em.

[MrPbody]

What is the purpose of headers? Making horsepower... "Shorty" headers are not for power production, but for ease of installation and bragging rights. Full-length headers make power. Hooker is the best for anything "production". Mad Dog is another brand of high quality, power-producing headers. Certain compromises may be necessary for ground clearance and exhaust systems.

What ever brand you choose, get them "uncoated" and have a professional coating shop (not a header company) coat them with a thermal barrier. We use Thermal Tech in Hopewell, Virginia, but there are others. Jet Hot and Swain come to mind. The cermaic coatings provided by header companies does not hold up over time. The "good stuff" does.

Jim

[89IROC&RS]

Originally Posted by MrPbody

What is the purpose of headers? Making horsepower... "Shorty" headers are not for power production, but for ease of installation and bragging rights. Full-length headers make power......

Jim

not really true. depending on application the long tubes can make more power, but it varies. You can loose power with long tubes, depending on what you define as power. long tubes can boost top end hp, which most people will never use, at the cost of low end torque which everyone uses on a daily basis.

i have edelbrock TES headers on my IROC, and i can happily attest that there was a huge seat of the pants difference in the power underfoot. i would estimate (with a full catback and high flow converter) at least a 30hp increase with the small diameter (around 1.5in) shorty headers i installed. Thats with everything else on the engine bone stock.

to say that only long tubes are for power and shorties are for bragging rights, is kinda like saying you have to have a 800cid mountain motor to have actual power, and anything less is just for bragging rights. and in reference to a daily driven vehicle is arguably bad advice.

all that being said, i strongly support the edelbrock TES headers for your application, if the A.I.R. tubes really annoy you that much, talk to edelbrock and see if they have a part number for a set without them, and if worst comes to worse, cut them off and have the holes welded shut.

just my

[GreyGoose006]

so you recommend edelbrock tes shorties?

p.s.
you wouldnt have any connection with blownalcoholboy would you?
i remember he had a similar looking avatar and was into camaros...

[89IROC&RS]

Originally Posted by GreyGoose006

so you recommend edelbrock tes shorties?

p.s.
you wouldnt have any connection with blownalcoholboy would you?
i remember he had a similar looking avatar and was into camaros...

um.... yup, i recommend the edelbrock tes headers. pretty sure i covered that.


as for blownalcoholboy, the name sounds familiar, from back when i was a mod on here, but we are two different people, dont tell me he was using my avitar while i was away????

[MrPbody]

Headers are designed to separate the exhaust pulses from each other. By tuning the soundwave to a given point, one can enhance the peak power point in any engine. It isn't a matter of "flow", though a bit of consideration is made there.

Sound travels at a given speed, approximately 735 MPH. When the cylinder fires, it makes a soundwave. That wave "bounces" around until the exhaust valve opens. It jumps out and travels down the tube to the collector. When it hits the air behind the collector, it rebounds (or bounces back). It then travels back through the cylinder, up the intake tract, hits the throttle body and bounces back again. THERE'S where the biggest gains from headers come from. The intake "charge" actually rides the soundwave back in, helping to pack the cylinder a little tighter than it could on its own. The primary tube also reduces the amount of absolute pressure in the exhaust, helping the "scavenging" effect.

All that being said, BECAUSE sound travels at that given speed, the shorter the header primary tube, the faster the wave bounces back and forth. As it also takes time (in clock time, not degrees) for the mixture to travel through the runners, the flame to propegate and the exhaust to scavenge, the longer the header, the better the performance at LOWER engine speeds. The shorter header will improve high-end performance.

89IROC,

As your car has a complete exhaust system, the performance of the headers involved aren't as pronounced or significant as with a system that's "open". The Edelbrock system IS a good one. An X-pipe always makes good power for a streeter. However, what you have said is backwards as far as header length versus power production. "Shortie" headers were unheard of until AFTER the Mustangs of the mid '80s began coming from the factory with them. They ARE much easier to install in most applications, and many choose them based on that. Ford used them because they realized they were much cheaper to manufacture than high-flow cast manifolds, and would outlive the warranty period. In back-to-back tests at Virginia Motorsports Park year-before-last, using a '98 RS with LS-1, installing Hooker headers gained .2 seconds and about 4 MPH over the factory headers with a small extension attached, no cats, no mufflers, no other changes.

Have you taken your car to the track? I ask this because I have MANY customers that use the "seat of the pants" meter without verifying anything under real conditions. It is often very deceptive. Many years ago, a friend owned a '69 Road Runner, 383 car. It had a 4-speed and 3.90 gears. It would fling you back in the seat. Quite impressive to both ride in and drive. I owned a '70 GTO Ram Air car at the same time. If you drove his and then mine or vice versa, you would SWEAR, the Dodge would blow the Pontiac into the weeds BAD. At the track, the RR went 14.40s all day. Not bad for a stocker... The Judge went 13.60s the same afternoon at the same track. Even BETTER for a stocker. Of course, if you watch Muscle Car TV, you think the Dodges run better and the Pontiacs don't run that well. This is WHY there are tracks. This is why we race the races, just like why the Patriots are going to have to PROVE they can beat the Giants. As a Raider fan, I'm rooting for the underdog. I really like Don Shula, too, so another reason to root for the Giants...(:-

My point here is to be aware that your measurements may or may not be accurate. I learned this in the early '70s when racing the streets of SoCal. My 13 second GTO beat a WHOLE BUNCH of 12 second Camaros and Mustangs. Why? Because I had been to the track and raced the car. I KNEW what it took to get a small block into the 12s in those days, and they didn't. They "assumed" their cars were faster because they had read the magazines. Magazines lie too, you know... Or they stack the deck for what ever test they're performing. The only REAL proof is on the track. Your butt can and will lie to you!

This is not intended to invalidate your statements, just to clarify that there are more factors at work here than you're considering. Building high performance engines is a lot more complex than it may appear.

Jim

[89IROC&RS]

im gonna have fun with this when i get back, right now i have to go to aikido

[FTA9597]

I really like my pacesetter monza's, best sound ever, plus a really good gain of output on my engine.

[MrPbody]

As I was driving home last night, I realized I had left out a "key word" that makes it all come together. That is: "resonance". The peak power point will occur at the point of resonance, where all the sound waves and vacuum signals are "in time". By moving the length of either the primary tube or collector, one can "adjust" the peak. No doubt, you've seen "adjustable" headers on certain race cars (Indy cars are a good example, as the exhaust system is in plain sight). This is the purpose.

89IROC,

You can all the fun with it you like. Whether or not you agree is of no concern, as this information comes directly from automotive engineering classes. I was even reading an old collection of Smoky Yunik's "Track Tech" column from Circle Track Magazine in the early '80s, and he described it to another doubter in a similar manner. I may not be in Smokey's league, but I am an educated professional in this business.

As for the seat-of-the-pants "meter", post track info to back up your claims. I have. And I mean REAL info, not something you glean out of a magazine or from another thread or site. YOUR CAR!

Jim

[wrightz28]

ohhh, I know I don't want to get in the middle of this, but maybe as a clarification.... Here goes nothing

In comaprison to the bulky stock AIR mamifolds, there is a bit of a improvement with the TES, while still remaining emissions legal. I'm not going to try and guestimate any numbers on how much "power" was freed up. Just overall, there is an improvement over stock.

I will say that as far as numbers go, I am contemplating doing just that when I begin to swap parts from my Z28 (RIP) to the stock GTA. I plan to do (funding permitting) a base line 'run' in stock then another run after each step to dtermine hp/tq gains. And one of the first ones will be the TES manifolds.