91 tc wont start but cranks

my 91 town car wont start but cranks, it has fuel pressure, copression and spark at the coils, i am lost, it got parked one day than when i went to start it back up it just kept cranking, it acts like it wants to start but wont, maybe a sensor or something? any one have an idea of what to try?

Crank Position Sensor... Do you have any codes?

i have not had it on a diagnostics tester to check it yet but plan on doing that this week. i really like the car i dont think wiith only 73,000 miles it can be that horrible it has to be some kind of sensor or computer issue, i am just not at all a mechanic

Crank Position Sensor

+1 on the CPS.

where is that located? I am diging it out of the snow tomarrow, if any one in my area knows we have 4 foot of snow in baltimore, i am sol on fixing anything untill i un burry it, snow sux

Its on the bottom of the engine to the right of the A/C compressor. You will have to unbolt carefully the compressor to replace the crank sensor.

Yep Brian is right, you have to unbolt the ac compressor to make room to pull the crank sensor out of the block. Why Ford made it like this, is any ones guess.

How did you do the compression check? Did you check all 8 cylinders with a gauge?

i didnt someone else did with a guage i am not a mechanic by far so , i just know it had good compression, lol, and they did check all 8 cylinders, i love this car i really just want to do whatever it takes to get it running, its in great shape and only has 76,000miles on it , i love this website all of u are very helpful, i only know enough to get me by, but when it comes to electronics i am lost.

could this problem of it not starting also be maybe the catylitic converter??? someone had brought that to my attention yesterday, that if it was bad it would not start, and also the throttle position sensor, but we did try spraying starting fluid in it and that did not make it run so i am not sure if that would eliminate that thoery or not, i am just trying to run through all possiblle causes before i start taking things completely apart.

Well, I have never heard of this. when a Cat goes, you usually loose power and have a rotten egg smell. If it was the tps, then when moving the throttle manually and spraying the starting fluid in it, it would have started. Sound like you have no spark. Which could be cause by many reasons (Crank Sensor for one). If you know what your doing, take out a spark plug, and connect the wire to the top of it, lay it securely to any part of the engine (metal) and have some one try to start it. See if you can visually see the spark. That will help narrow it down more.


could this problem of it not starting also be maybe the catylitic converter??? someone had brought that to my attention yesterday, that if it was bad it would not start, and also the throttle position sensor, but we did try spraying starting fluid in it and that did not make it run so i am not sure if that would eliminate that thoery or not, i am just trying to run through all possiblle causes before i start taking things completely apart.

we did already check for spark at the coils and it was good, i got it dug out today we are going to start checkig things out this weekend, i am hopeing it is a sensor, i was also told it could be the ecm, which i am not totally sure how to check that i just know all these things in one way or another work somewhat together.

Good luck. Are you getting fuel to the engine? On my 95, there is a relay block on the drivers fender, that where the fuel pump relay is. I had to have someone giggle those wires going to the block as I turned it over. That's how I narrowed it down. Just for giggles, have you checked your Inertia switch? Its inside the trunk on the drivers side near the lid arm. Take a small screwdriver and tap the switch, if you hear a popping/clicking noise, then it most likely wasn't popped. If you dont, then press down on the top part until you feel it click. There's a small bearing that inside that pops when in a accident, the fuel pump turns off. Might want to reset it just for luck.


bryan

There is a bank of relays on the back side of a vacuum box, on the driver side inner fender well. EEC power, Fuel pump, Ac cut out. Swap that one for the EEC power. You might not be getting power to the computer because of that relay. Also check the relay for the fuel pump and definitely check that fuel pump shut off switch in the trunk like Brian suggested.


http://cmasalvage.com/93tc_eec_box1.jpg (http://cmasalvage.com/93tc_eec_box1.jpg)

Yup! thats the box that I was thinking about in my other reply... Mike, out of curiosity, do you actually take pictures of these parts when someone has a question, or do you already have the pics saved.....

B


There is a bank of relays on the back side of a vacuum box, on the driver side inner fender well. EEC power, Fuel pump, Ac cut out. Swap that one for the EEC power. You might not be getting power to the computer because of that relay. Also check the relay for the fuel pump and definitely check that fuel pump shut off switch in the trunk like Brian suggested.


http://cmasalvage.com/93tc_eec_box1.jpg (http://cmasalvage.com/93tc_eec_box1.jpg)

Good question. Sometimes I will take pictures for a show and tell. I already had this picture on file, from my store inventory.

well i have tryed the switch in the trunk , it wasnt that, but i have recently noticed my radio, ac and heat will not turn on or work???? Have no idea why, but the car starts every othe time for about 5 seconds and shuts almost imeadiatly off, it sounds good for thoose couple seconds. When we put the fuel in the intake it did the same thing, if it was the fuel pump , would it still be getting any fuel up that far? and it will not start like that back to back it has to sit for a little bit, i am so confused at this point i dont really know what to try first. If its just not getting fuel that would be one thing but i do i know what to eliminate, there are so many different things in the picture now, and the ignition, could that still play a role?

ok, well today it again did the same thing after checking fuel pump, switch and relay, we also tried checking the fuel pressure regulator as one of the guys we know sugested, not the problem, or so it doesnt seem , however the oil level is very high, over filled and seems to have gas mixed in, it smells like gas and the car back fires through the crank case, ????????????? Now what? HELP ME PLEASE.............. I AM SO LOST !!!!!!!!! all the relays seem fine it acts like it wants to do something but it is so wierd and when it does run for that couple seconds if u try to start it right ack up it wont u have to wait a couple minutes then it will, i may be a girl but i sure wish i was a mechanic, all i know is i am not a complete dumby but this is really making me feel that way its probably something so little, i just dont know .

I ran in to this weird no start problem on a 96 4.6L . I replaced everything, I mean everything. Exhausted all possibilities and them some. This problem stumped me for almost two years. What I found was that most of rocker arms had fallen off. When you mentioned back firing I thought of this. When you get a back fire it points to timing problem most of the time. If it's not the crank sensor. I would pull one of the valve covers and look at those rocker arms and the timing chain while you are in there. I was in denial of a timing problem since this car ran great, than up and quit on me one day. This was sort of timing related since the cylinder head valves were not opening and closing right, my chain and sprockets were ok. Have you checked the crank sensor yet?

i have not, i wanted to eliminate the obvious first, but the a bad fuel in the oil is what gets me and the oil level is really high i was told it could be the fuel pressure regulator, or injector is stuck open since it does start but than shuts right off, i am going to go to the junk yard tomarrow and get a few things, we have a pick it yourself yard where these small things are only a few bucks, but do u think the cars timming would have anything to do with the fuel in the oil? and do u think the fuel pressure regulator could be bad? we already replaced the pcv valve, that wasnt it. I am going to empty the oil out also becuase i dont think it will run with too much oil either, and i will then keep track of the oil level but i cant keep trying to start it with all that in there , its weird we didnt check before but there is like 2x the amount of oil than there is suposed to be and it is full of gas

If you ever heard the expression that to much oil is worse than running it low? That's what is seems here. Now the question is, how did all the gas get into the crankcase? I think you have 2 problems, first one is the no start and the second is your piston rings might be getting worn and letting fuel pour into the crankcase. Since you have been trying to get it to start numerous times, I bet that's how the gas got there. Or in combination with the PCV valve being bad. Drain oil and change filter, make sure the oil level is correct and then try to start it and see if it runs and then quits again. And the answer to your next question is YES, you will continue to add gas to your oil even after you change it, so try not to start it as many times as you have...

SIDE BAR didn't someone have a similar problem with a LTC and it ended up being a fuse on a module or something. Might want to replace the PCM Diode in the Relay block I spoke of earlier.

i have not, i wanted to eliminate the obvious first, but the a bad fuel in the oil is what gets me and the oil level is really high i was told it could be the fuel pressure regulator, or injector is stuck open since it does start but than shuts right off, i am going to go to the junk yard tomarrow and get a few things, we have a pick it yourself yard where these small things are only a few bucks, but do u think the cars timming would have anything to do with the fuel in the oil? and do u think the fuel pressure regulator could be bad? we already replaced the pcv valve, that wasnt it. I am going to empty the oil out also becuase i dont think it will run with too much oil either, and i will then keep track of the oil level but i cant keep trying to start it with all that in there , its weird we didnt check before but there is like 2x the amount of oil than there is suposed to be and it is full of gas

I forgot about that diode in there with the relays, what is it for any way?

The constant cranking will fill the crankcase with fuel. That's why the oil level is so high, a mixture of gas and oil. Sounds like the fuel pump is working good.

THe Diode is for the PCM. You gree with me then on the fuel in oil mixture then Mike?

well at least its not the fuel pump, my thing is, could it be the pressure regulator and where is this diode u are speaking of? i am going to the junk yard later to get some things and i could get one or two(just in case)

That block of relays on the drivers side fender. Its located at the end and says PCM Diode, looks like a over sized square fuse. As far as the regulator goes, maybe it is, you would have to put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail to see how much PSI you have, then go from there. Try this for me.. Put the cars shifter in Neutral and try to start it. Let me know what happens.

ok well i have tried the diode and it is fine, i have changes the oild and filter and i have checked the spark again, all is good , tried starting it in nuetral , all is good, however the pulgs are wet from fuel like the injectors are not closeing , could that be? i have check both the fuel regulator and the pcv valve both are good, should i replace the ecm? now it wont start at all it just keeps cranking and was cranking rather fast last night all of a sudden.:runaround: what do u think i should do next?

When you say you started in Neutral, and all is good. What does this mean? That it runs fine or just cranks fine? Plugs will be wet from the fuel. How did you diagnose the Fuel Regulator as being good? I doubt that all your injectors went bad all of a sudden. Reason its might be cranking fast now is because there is the correct amout of oil rather than over filled oil and fuel in the crankcase. Thats a good thing. Did you check all the fuses under the inside dash? I want you to pull all of them out and visually check them. If possible, put a test light on them and check them that way as well. I have seen fuses do weird stuff. As far as the Computer goes. Its possible, I wouldn't go that far just yet. Remember that when you replace the Computer to get one thats EXACTLY for your package. IE, Sig for a Sig and an Exc for a Exc, Cartier for a Cartier. Different packages will have different drivers and specs from car to car. I am not sure if I asked this, but didnt someone post a problem similar to this one and it ended up being a blown fuse on a module under the seat or something.....???

While your out there at the car, pull down the panel under the steering column, look towards the end of it and you will see a 8mm bolt head, thats the ignition switch. Make sure that the wires are not loose and the bolt is tight. Also, if you can do this VERY CAREFULLY, jack the front of the car up on stands, and have someone try to start the car, with another person standing in front of the car (to communicate), and someone under the front of the car wiggling the crank sensor plug. See if that does anything. Also try to wiggle the Ignition wire while starting the engine and see what happens. The only thing I could help you with is either a phone call as your working on the car or if you have a way I can see exactly whats going on when your working on it via web cam or something...... You can send me a private message for contact info if you like.


Bryan



ok well i have tried the diode and it is fine, i have changes the oild and filter and i have checked the spark again, all is good , tried starting it in nuetral , all is good, however the pulgs are wet from fuel like the injectors are not closeing , could that be? i have check both the fuel regulator and the pcv valve both are good, should i replace the ecm? now it wont start at all it just keeps cranking and was cranking rather fast last night all of a sudden.:runaround: what do u think i should do next?

replaced the crank sensor yet?

no it didnt start in nuetral but it turned over, and i was wondering if there could be a bad ground going to the injectors causeing it to flood out, but other wiswe i am deffinately going to try everything u said and will send u a message , i am so incredibly confused, the good thing is i did find a computer used but good, for only 30 dollars, so if that is what it is, thats cheap. I will not have time to do anything today but tomarrow i want to see if i cant get started with what u said, it wont start now at all , it just cranks, why, i dont know but , it has fuel and spark, no bad fuses we checked inside and out and i replaced the relays, i would love to be able to talk on the phone, i really appriciate all this help.

Ok, just please be careful on being under the car while someones starting the engine. I am wondering if your getting spark, but not enough. This sounds like and ignition module. If you can get one from teh junk yard that you frequent, I would and unplug your and plug in the replacement. The try to start it. If you need one. I do have one just let me know.

thats also sounds like a iginiton control module they will go bad when ever especially up north. they cost 187.09 plus tax and are easy to change and will give you the same problem you are saying. will crank but no start has spark and gas. it is something you would think but might want to try it is on the side on the distributor.

I just realized something. I have been assuming that this is a 4.6 Liter engine. But when I just read miketbird response, I am wondering if its a 5.0... Please let me know which it is..

B



thats also sounds like a iginiton control module they will go bad when ever especially up north. they cost 187.09 plus tax and are easy to change and will give you the same problem you are saying. will crank but no start has spark and gas. it is something you would think but might want to try it is on the side on the distributor.

I've never seen any 91 models with the 5.0 in it. I suppose the very first of the 91 models might have had the 5.0 still. On those grey ignition modules, also I've never seen a bad one still give off spark in any of them. They usually go out and stay out. It is possible that the spark is breaking down and week like Bryan suggested, hard to say without seeing it. I would think that the car would at least start on a week spark although. Yes 30 bucks is cheap for the computer, I sell mine for 50. They are easy to change. It would be nice if it was the computer. If that doesn't fix it, you need to replace that crank sensor. Really not all that hard to change, four bolts on the ac compressor. You need a 10 mm socket and an 8 mm socket for the sensor bolt. You have to take the belt off of course.

What Mike Said....