Don't buy American

Yeah I'm an American as apple pie. Yet tired of my pockets being emptied on crap products being made by complacent workers and poor management american run companys...
Its on the table as in your face as to a product you pay for and expect a good product and chevy and dodge are crap products....
Ford is on the edge...

Peace

It's irrelevant if American products are good, bad, or indifferent. The more you buy foreign the faster American businesses will fail. Once all of the American businesses are gone, you then will have no choice except foreign. You'll know it and they'll know it. Then they will drop their quality, raise their prices, and you won't be able to do a thing about it.

You may think you're standing up now, but all you're doing is step one to bending over.

sorry alloro-----american men work to hard and just a descent car to get to work is standard...your not getting the picture. You think the men running these companys have grease on their finger? Hell no-------

whats this got to do with fixing dodge vans!!!!

The discussion goes toward the quality of the construction put into the vans. Fair game IMO.

The quality of the construction of the van? The bottom line is this. Just look at the cars and vans on the road to mostly cars and what do you see? The majority? Is it American? Who's in bankruptcy?
Thinking people make a good product-greedy people make the illusion of a good product...

Games over for me-----I'll buy the best best product for my money...

I didn't rate the quality. I only mentioned quality as being the subject of discussion and therefore it is appropriate for it to be discussed here.

whats this got to do with fixing dodge vans!!!!

I agree. This is a valid topic, but it belongs in Stress Relief, not in the Dodge Van forum... which is where it has been moved.

I have owned and driven nothing but American made vehicles. Both Ford and GM products, they have run, driven and lasted a VERY long time. I don't drive Diemler-Chrysler products cause I don't know how to work on them and I don't really like thier style. It's a personal decision. The reason I haven't bought any foreign vehicles is because I want to contribute to the AMERICAN economy not the foreign economies. I already have to purchase oil that is coming from the Middle East. I don't want to give my money to other countries. I can't change every persons mind but I do think that if the American people really want to bring the economy up they should purchase American made products, to include vehicles. There are plenty of fuel efficient vehicles that are American made.

Honda has as many assembly plants in the US and Canada as they do in Japan. So do a lot of other foreign mfgs. So you're still supporting the American economy buy buying certain "imports".

Honda has as many assembly plants in the US and Canada as they do in Japan. So do a lot of other foreign mfgs. So you're still supporting the American economy buy buying certain "imports".

Yeah, but all the high paying back office jobs are in Japan. That doesn't help us one bit.

Yeah, but all the high paying back office jobs are in Japan. That doesn't help us one bit.

Not one bit? There are thousands of blue collar workers making a living working for Japanese assembly plants in America. To me they're more important than the high paid suits. Anyway I'd rather give my money to the Japanese suits than to the greedy American suits who give themselves 20 million dollar bonuses using money "borrowed" from us taxpayers. A 20 million dollar bonus for nearly causing the company to go bankrupt? WTF???

...and I use the term "borrowed" very loosely - we all know they're not going to pay it back in full.

Nice to see some thinking people chatting on their views of what American made is. Well the dog days of summer are over for American complacency, not sure why? I mean the few cats their catching and putting away for their atrocitys against the business world itself well hey, it goes on down the ladder as to well made products...
I've been a freelancer, craftsman, artist all my life, so I live through my body and being. Not off the blood of another for the illusion of something they think are well made product that the suits and familys running the american auto industry or corporate fascists who have finally come to deal with reality...
My Dodge van I bought with 58k on it outright has drained my pockets to the point that I will never buy another American made car, truck again....

I bought with 58k on it outright has drained my pockets to the point that I will never buy another American made car, truck again....

OK, so you are judging all American branded cars based upon the worst make made? Then go out and buy a Mitsubishi so we can read your bitching about how bad all Japanese cars are.

Or just get a Ford.

The '88 GMC Sierra P/u I used to own years ago was a piece of crap, but the RAM Van I have now is great. The RAM Van has a zinc rust proof coating under the vehicle. The rust is absolutely minimum...just a few specks here and there. The GMC was coated with rust all over the frame. Both driven the same way, in the same conditions. Everything that could have gone wrong with a GMC P/U did go wrong. By the 100,000 mile mark, the following had gone bad: Fuel injection; transmission; universal joints; fuel pump; the crankshaft pully fell off; the air conditioner leaked; alternator; air pump; windshield wipers; and it only got 6 mpg! I started carrying spare parts with me in the event it broke down on the highway! That was the last GM product I ever purchased.

Had a few problems with my Dodge RAM Van, but nothing like that GMC.

The American products are a whole lot better made.Dana made a huge mistake,cylinder liners for Harley Davidson Motorcycles were made in Muskegon,Mi and Dana decided to send the cylinder liner line down to Mexico which was a huge mistake.Dana thought it was cheaper to build them in Mexico with a 75% scrap rate.Dana made a huge mistake and cheaper is not always better.My father's 2006 Ultra Classic had to have the Cylinder liners and pistons replaced in it under warranty,lots of piston slap and his was the 6th one in for this.My brother Scott knew about this and the rep from Harley was there not believing this.Harley Davidson Canceled their order from Dana and went to another supplier because of this.Anything Japanese has electrical problems which are very expensive to fix.I do know a yard in my area that does get calls for the Toyota Corolla engines and he wished that he had a lot of these engines to sell

Alright, if american cars are bought then the over paid sob's get paid more, if they get paid more then the workers get paid better, and then theres more workers. then those workers buy more things (like houses) so construction companies build houses for those people, then the lumber companies start to thrive, then they buy cars and houses, and so on and so on.

You buy a Jap car, the head people in Japan get paid better. End of story

Thats how it works wether you guys like it or not, and not even gona bother reading Warf's post :rofl:

You buy a Jap car, the head people in Japan get paid better. End of story

Yeah, if you buy a Japanese car, no one in America gets any money for anything to do with it.
:rolleyes:

Yeah, if you buy a Japanese car, no one in America gets any money for anything to do with it.
:rolleyes:

The big money leaves the US and never comes back.
:lol2:

Yeah I'm an American as apple pie. Yet tired of my pockets being emptied on crap products being made by complacent workers and poor management american run companys...
Its on the table as in your face as to a product you pay for and expect a good product and chevy and dodge are crap products....
Ford is on the edge...

Peace

You are American as apple pie ? " please " you are American diarrhea, move to Russia and get yourself a real car " Lada ",,, you commie

You are American as apple pie ? " please " you are American diarrhea, move to Russia and get yourself a real car " Lada ",,, you commie
:lol2: That's actually quite funny. But the American way is to buy stuff that is the best. In the long run, it's un-American to buy American stuff simply to be patriotic. Here's why:

Imo American industry is all about progress, innovation, improvement and effective response to market forces. Making goods and services better, more efficient etc has been the American way for a more than a century. Competition is key to advancing these principles.

But its difficult for American companies to pursue these goals and remain truly competitive if people slavishly buy the goods and services simply because they are 'American'.

Such brand loyalty may seen patriotic but so often it results in technological and industrial stagnation, so when the crunch of competitiveness arrives, the American companies are truly in a terrible position.

There's fine balance between quality and price that govern the consumer market. America has shown in recent history that it prefers to buy more crappy things for cheap than fewer good things for less. Follow this to any industry and it applies. Furniture, why buy it from a recognized furniture chain when you can get it from Wal-Mart? China is one of many foreign markets that have simply supplied product to demand - Americans want 'more for their money' creating this immense beast of insatiable consumerism resulting in a flood of cheap products made by people without engineering or design skill to offer to the lowest bidder. If you shop at Wal-Mart, you're supporting the system. Who says a new car should cost $10K, or a T-shirt should cost $7.95? You want quality, a T-shirt is going to cost you $35 and it won't fall apart after a month.

American (and Canadian) industry is more than capable with skills, intelligence and passion to make world-class product. But if nobody is willing to save up and pay for it, who are they going to sell to? You want something good, don't buy from the dollar store. You may have to wait a few more months, even years to buy that new product you wanted, but it will actually be worthwhile. And if you buy local, it will support local manufacturing, making high-paying and skilled jobs available close to home.

People have to educate themselves to what 'value' really is, and anybody who has bought appliances for their kitchen, or shoes, or even a house knows how this works. If it's cheap, there's a reason. This mentality is pushed on us from culture and advertising, we see people with iPods and Blackberrys and Plasma's and say "I gotta have that now!".

You want better local product? Do yourself and your country a favour, save up some money for the real thing and buy local. In regards to cars, well, I have a hard time practicing what I preach. American cars don't turn my crank as of late, and as much as I'd prefer to support Ford, GM or Chrysler, for my money I would just rather drive the competition. So I won't reduce my expectations for what I buy just to get local product, but in most cases (and recently Ford is showing examples of this) local is indeed competitive on a global scale.

There's fine balance between quality and price that govern the consumer market. America has shown in recent history that it prefers to buy more crappy things for cheap than fewer good things for less. Follow this to any industry and it applies. Furniture, why buy it from a recognized furniture chain when you can get it from Wal-Mart? China is one of many foreign markets that have simply supplied product to demand - Americans want 'more for their money' creating this immense beast of insatiable consumerism resulting in a flood of cheap products made by people without engineering or design skill to offer to the lowest bidder. If you shop at Wal-Mart, you're supporting the system. Who says a new car should cost $10K, or a T-shirt should cost $7.95? You want quality, a T-shirt is going to cost you $35 and it won't fall apart after a month.

American (and Canadian) industry is more than capable with skills, intelligence and passion to make world-class product. But if nobody is willing to save up and pay for it, who are they going to sell to? You want something good, don't buy from the dollar store. You may have to wait a few more months, even years to buy that new product you wanted, but it will actually be worthwhile. And if you buy local, it will support local manufacturing, making high-paying and skilled jobs available close to home.

People have to educate themselves to what 'value' really is, and anybody who has bought appliances for their kitchen, or shoes, or even a house knows how this works. If it's cheap, there's a reason. This mentality is pushed on us from culture and advertising, we see people with iPods and Blackberrys and Plasma's and say "I gotta have that now!".

You want better local product? Do yourself and your country a favour, save up some money for the real thing and buy local. In regards to cars, well, I have a hard time practicing what I preach. American cars don't turn my crank as of late, and as much as I'd prefer to support Ford, GM or Chrysler, for my money I would just rather drive the competition. So I won't reduce my expectations for what I buy just to get local product, but in most cases (and recently Ford is showing examples of this) local is indeed competitive on a global scale.

I agree.

There seems to be a widespread consumerist mentality based on buying stuff for the novelty factor, but simply not expecting it to last a long time.

My parents, my in-laws etc would buy fairly expensive products - furniture, suits, appliances shoes etc. with the expectation that the stuff was quality-made and would last for decades.

These days, people do not do that. Stuff is cheap, so cheap that when (not if) it breaks after a few months to a few years, they can replace it with more really cheap stuff. The fun of shopping and the novelty of getting new stuff cheap - even if its crap - feeds this consumer trend.
Consumers are so willing to sacrifice durability and fit-and-finish for a low price.

How can you sell quality to consumers who have such low expectations?

Imo this trend is incompatible with the environmentalist movement. It's a waste of resources to make cheap stuff only to have it be thrown away too soon. Make products better - even if they cost more - have people buy fewer products, get more use out of the stuff they have, and thus help save the planet.

I agree.

There seems to be a widespread consumerist mentality based on buying stuff for the novelty factor, but simply not expecting it to last a long time.

My parents, my in-laws etc would buy fairly expensive products - furniture, suits, appliances shoes etc. with the expectation that the stuff was quality-made and would last for decades.

These days, people do not do that. Stuff is cheap, so cheap that when (not if) it breaks after a few months to a few years, they can replace it with more really cheap stuff. The fun of shopping and the novelty of getting new stuff cheap - even if its crap - feeds this consumer trend.
Consumers are so willing to sacrifice durability and fit-and-finish for a low price.

How can you sell quality to consumers who have such low expectations?

Imo this trend is incompatible with the environmentalist movement. It's a waste of resources to make cheap stuff only to have it be thrown away too soon. Make products better - even if they cost more - have people buy fewer products, get more use out of the stuff they have, and thus help save the planet.

Well stated, MagicRat, couldn't agree more. I think the market is in a time of 'equalization' where we are seeing the toll we are taking not only on our wallets but our planet, and the ideas are shifting back to quality made local product. I trust and hope that the future holds both worlds to account - we can still have the things we want, but in a way that is more responsible globally.

There is another thing I will not buy that is Japanese made,guns and Browning is one which are mostly made in Japan.I seen a Browning at a Friends of the NRA banquent which going to won by some one and I looked on the gun: Made in Japan.I admit the Japanese make better hand woodworking tools which are expensive and I have a few of their saws which cut the opposite way,on the pull stroke and cut faster than a western hand saw. Quality of Japanese cars are coming down these days,a wrecking yard in my area has a whole bunch with them with no engines in them.Look what most people do to most older Toyota trucks,ditch the original engine and install a small block Chevy in it's place since the small block Chevy holds up better.

The point is not to not buy American products but more to not blindly accept American products if they are not good enough.

The same is true of products from any country.
It is easy to blame China for flooding the US with cheap and poor quality products but that is what is being demanded of them; cheap which inevitably ends up being of poorer quality (or at the expense of others).

Why do people think buying japanese cars will take money away from the american economy? GM is taking money away from the economy by asking for obscene amounts of money in the form of a bail out at tax payers expense. Most americans and canadians do not even realize that the majority of japanese cars on our roads were built here by honest hard working north americans, giving them good jobs with great benefits. what is the difference if you are working at Toyota or GM? Either way they are creating jobs. Do you really think GM puts the money they make back into the economy, if you do your high! GM and Chrysler insist on making inferior product and when we as consumers realize this and stop buying their product they still get our money anyways in the form of a bailout. Tell me how this is fair? As a mechanic I am groing increasingly frustrated with the quality i see everyday of american cars. Ford is actually starting to move in the right direction but still has a ways to go. Anyways it comes down to a question of supply and demand, we demand a good dependable product and GM or chrysler will have to supply it if they want our money. I'm tired of people brainwashing people into buying American because we have to help support our economy, GIMME A BREAK!

Why do people think buying japanese cars will take money away from the american economy?

Because it does. The back office is in Japan, and that's half the worforce. Plus since on paper foreign companies don't make any profits, they don't pay any income taxes here. Essentially, they are getting a free ride, espically since we were dumb enough to allow imports to qualify for cash for clunkers.

Let me get this right.

According to you:
People in the American factories who get paid money doesn't constitute helping the American economy.
People in the American dealerships who get paid money to sell cars don't constiture helping the American enconomy.
People in America who get paid money to haul vehicles across the country to various dealerships don't constitute helping the American economy.

There's more but hopefully, you get the gist.


Also.

Plus since on paper foreign companies don't make any profits, they don't pay any income taxes here

Citation please.
Simply saying it is, doesn't make it true.

I point you to this (http://www.usa-international-offshore-company-tax.com/foreign_corporations.asp).

In case you're too lazy to read it i'll quote the important part.
A foreign corporation, for US tax law purposes, is any corporation not organized under the laws of the United States, any state, or the District of Columbia. A corporation organized in a US possession, such as Guam, is considered a foreign corporation, unless certain conditions detailed in IRC section 881(b) are met.

Income earned by a foreign corporation is subject to US income tax under two circumstances: net income effectively connected with a US trade or business is taxed at normal corporate income tax graduated rates (see company tax); US source income not effectively connected with a US trade or business is usually taxed at a 30% rate.

Unless of course you're implying that somehow, Toyota managed to hide 730,000 car sales last year from the US tax man.

Thank you for the backup Drunken Monkey. I really enjoy this site a lot but unfortunately most people on it will say anything without doing the research just to prove their point. It is nice to see someone like yourself who takes the time to give and informed reply.

So then a car that is assembled of (primarily) imported parts, transported, sold, and maintained in the U.S. helps the economy as much as a car that is designed, engineered, manufactured with (primarily) domestic parts, transported, sold, and maintained in the U.S.? The management is by far the highest paid, and that's where most of the difference is... buy an import and you're sending your cash overseas. To say that something that helps less does not hurt isn't really accurate.

I also don't believe that "imports" are any more reliable than "domestic". While I do agree that there are more problems with American made cars, that seems to be a direct result of people not maintaining them. Typically "import" drivers take much better care of their vehicles, they bring them in for maintenance things while "domestic" drivers wait until something breaks. Also, it's not uncommon for imports a few years old to blow engines. Try finding a used H-4 engine for a Subaru, they all have the engines picked out of them.

The worst vehicle I ever had was a Toyota Tercel, only import I've ever owned. That thing barely made it past 100k miles, and cost me thousands of dollars in parts. Things broke constantly and cost much more than a domestic part, and yes, I took good care of it. I've owned 5 American vehicles since then, all of which were much better. Two I still have and run great, I've spend under a thousand dollars between the two in the combined 9 years of ownership. One I sold cheap because I rolled it over and crushed the roof in and it leaked water, still ran great and the biggest problem i had in 2 years was a bad thermostat. In one the engine spun a rod bearing at 198,xxx miles while being driven at high speed for 10-15 miles on a very hot summer day with the A/C cranked up. One I bought at 170k miles (was dirt cheap because it had also been driven into a tree which pushed the bumper back into the radiator fan). I did all the repairs with a chain + another truck, a few hammers, and some JB Weld. Drove it for years (never replaced anything, and changed the oil every 10k miles... it was my beater) until I tried driving through what I though was mud... turned out it was more water than dirt. Water got in everywhere and for some reason it didn't want to start after that. Sold that for parts, but it ran great up till I tried to make it amphibious :)


The greedy American union assembly line workers make far too much for such a low-skilled job, which forced American companies to cut cost on cheap parts which lowered the overall quality of the cars. Now my money's going to pay their outrageous salaries (thanks to the bailouts), and they're still doing just as poor work as ever, and still forcing the quality to be less than it used to be. My old '86 pickup was built solid with good parts, the years of abuse pulling loads well over what it's rated for and being used as an off-road toy don't even show. The body's dented all over and beginning to rust. The paint is still good, only peeling where the rust is bubbling up. Look under the hood, and except for mud being packed in everywhere, it looks almost new. Only had three leaks; the valve cover gaskets, the water pump, and the master cylinder. Quick, easy fixes. Now my '04 Cavalier is much different. While it's been reliable, it's unreasonable for me to think it will make it to be 23 years old.... maybe 15. But I have no reason to think that I won't be driving my truck long after my car's been parted out. The quality just isn't there any more, the reason is the unions. There is a huge difference in quality between American assembled "Japenese" vehicles and Japanese assembled imports. The ones made here by higher paid union workers are of lower quality. The ones that have engines go before 100k miles or tons of electrical problems... union made. It just doesn't make good business sense to not be able to fire someone as long as they pay their union dues and show up to work and half-assed do their job all day.

So where's the truth? As usual, it's somewhere in the middle. There are great American made products and there are crappy ones. There are great Japanese products and there are crappy ones. There are crappy Chinese products, so lets keep buying them until they're able to produce quality products.

Hey, the only cats that didn't take a bail out was Ford, Ford had the ace up their sleeve for a few years and stayed cool about it. I drove or rented a ford focus for a trip and was amazed at its kick ass run on the interstate...
they figured something out on a 4 cylinder that could give you that punch anytime you needed it.

Cars and well like goverment are the same. I don't care where my money goes at this point as long as I get my bang for my buck on a veheicle.


Hell my parents bought their home for what you pay for a car today...

They got 30 years outta their home...Who's kidding who on quality?

You'll have to explain what the "ace up their sleeve" was... I've driven several Focuses and they're nothing special, typical of most 4 cylinders of the same age. 16V DOHC and higher revs coupled with better electronics that allow more (safe) timing advance aren't specific to Ford, and as much as I hate to say it, were pioneered by the Japanese. Honda had one helluva great idea with VTEC, and the others had DOHC "base" engines long before any American manufacturer did. 4 cylinder cars of today have all the power you'll ever need for typical driving, and with a few modifications give more HP and similar torque compared to the old OHV cast iron V8s... not the big ones, but my 2.2L Ecotec has more of both than my '86 pickup with a 5.7L engine in it. It had 145 HP stock, with only modifications to the software, I believe I could have hit 200 HP with 93 octane gas.

I'm not sure it's fair to compare houses to cars either, on a similar note, apples are much better than oranges. There are houses that are lived in every day that were made back in the 1800s. Not many existing 1800s cars on the road :) I agree that houses made today are of much lower quality than those made 30 or 100 years ago, the majority of the workforce today has no work ethic, show up and get paid. My 30-40 year old house is built more solid than my parents' 10 year old house. I have no creaks in the floors, I don't get a few shingles torn off when there are high winds, I've never had any leaks, and my drywall isn't cracking from the house settling. They can't say the same. But I don't have the important things like vaulted ceilings, rounded corners on the walls, or holes built into the wall for TVs.

The price difference should be attributed to inflation (primarily). Remember back when you could get a cup of coffee and a sandwich for a nickel? Maybe not, I looked and you don't have your age in your profile, but things will always be more expensive in the future. I remember triple cheeseburgers for $.89 and coffee for $.25.

...Thinking people make a good product-greedy people make the illusion of a good product...

Hmmm, sounds like Obama, you know, the guy that doesn't want to run the car companies, the banks, the mortgage industry, the health care industry, and wants to spend all kinds of money that isn't his to spend. Yup, him, the one that gave the illusion of a good product last November that way too many people bought. Now look who's going bankrupt. He needs to go away, and take the greedy unions with him.

Whoa... easy there, you know how he feels about free speech that opposes him or his agenda! You're a terrorist now, according to "them" :angryfire:angryfire:angryfire

He doesn't give a rats ass about my, (or anyone else's) agenda. He and his tax cheat buddies, commonly referred to as his "administration", are purposefully and methodically destroying our economy, our military, our health care system and apologizing all over the world. While at the same time forcing the lie, consequences, and price tag of "global warming" down our throats. Keep your eye on Congress, everyone thinks they're on Christmas recess til mid January, nope, they're secretly trying to jamb the healthcare debacle through when no one's looking. If it was such a good bill, the majority of the people would want it! As it stands right now, the majority doesn't want it. Transparent administration my ass, it's only an illusion. Ya can't trust him, just like the scum bag at Fort Hood. Whew, got THAT off my chest, now back to the original post. Bottom line is if the American people keep buying foreign, our industry will disappear and none of us will have a job.

I completely agree with you. I meant his agenda, not yours/ours, which is to (as you stated) "purposefully and methodically destroy our economy, our military, our health care system and apologizing all over the world. While at the same time forcing the lie, consequences, and price tag of "global warming" down our throats." I don't believe that anyone could attempt to help our country and do such a horrible job as he has. It has to be intentional, there's no way any intelligent (and I do believe he's intelligent but also probably a terrorist, and possibly the antichrist) person could believe that you can tax and regulate a country into prosperity, or that most people will keep working if they can live off the government.

You must not have seen the DHS report on "domestic terrorism" that got leaked a while back.
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf
It's pretty infuriating. A year ago I was a patriot, now I'm a "terrorist". I wonder who requested this "report"?

Since few people will read the whole thing, here's what really pissed me off, the following people are considered threats to national security:
-People who reject federal authority in favor of state or local authority...It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration. (p2)
-People who oppose illegal "immigration". (p5)
-Our brave military men and women. (p7)

I have to keep reminding myself that we're at least 1/4 of the way through his term in office.

Oh yes, I saw the report, hmmm, accidentally leaked????? I think not when you take into consideration who the left wing nut appointed to run the department. Do the homework on that if you REALLY want to get pissed.

Hmmm, sounds like Obama, you know, the guy that doesn't want to run the car companies, the banks, the mortgage industry, the health care industry, and wants to spend all kinds of money that isn't his to spend. Yup, him, the one that gave the illusion of a good product last November that way too many people bought. Now look who's going bankrupt. He needs to go away, and take the greedy unions with him.

Speaking of shoving agenda's down people's throats, thanks for tainting a somewhat insightful car debate into your own scatterbrained political chatterbox. Go call up talk radio if you want to spread your propaganda.

So then a car that is assembled of (primarily) imported parts, transported, sold, and maintained in the U.S. helps the economy as much as a car that is designed, engineered, manufactured with (primarily) domestic parts, transported, sold, and maintained in the U.S.? The management is by far the highest paid, and that's where most of the difference is... buy an import and you're sending your cash overseas. To say that something that helps less does not hurt isn't really accurate.

There's a lot of questions in there, many of which I can't answer without the full details of the production line logistics of car manufacture of the different cars sold in youyr country.
That is to say that the answer for each car is going to be different.

However, the one part that I can address is this.
It doesn't matter how much management gets paid because the high paid individuals do not make up the majority of the population of any country.
Their direct influence on the economy is negligable and next to meaningless.
In this respect, the car that helps the economy the most, is the one that provides the most jobs within the country.
The strength of an economy isn't just about the number of $/£ but more to do with the number of people who has $/£.

I take as my example, the Honda Civic.
The car is a Japanese car that is designed, manufactured and built in the UK.
It provided at it's peak 4200 jobs in the UK and that figure does not include the third part contractors that are involved in the processes of car manufacture.
Who do you think gets more money?
The few executives who get higher salaries or the collective majority of employees who get lower salaries?
Who would be spending more money on the proverbial "high street"; the few exectives or the majority of employees?


Of course, the Honda Civic is an unfair example as it is for all intent purposes a UK car but it shows why it is too simple to say that buying an import car hurts your countries economy. Of course that isn't to say that buying a truly home grown/developed car doesn't benefit more but the basic fact is, any sale of car helps the economy, especially when it isn't a sale based on credit.

Then again, in the modern economy, even credit purchases are beneficial to the economy as it provides grease for the wheels as it were.

There's a lot of questions in there, many of which I can't answer without the full details of the production line logistics of car manufacture of the different cars sold in youyr country.
That is to say that the answer for each car is going to be different.

However, the one part that I can address is this.
It doesn't matter how much management gets paid because the high paid individuals do not make up the majority of the population of any country.
Their direct influence on the economy is negligable and next to meaningless.
In this respect, the car that helps the economy the most, is the one that provides the most jobs within the country.
The strength of an economy isn't just about the number of $/£ but more to do with the number of people who has $/£.

I take as my example, the Honda Civic.
The car is a Japanese car that is designed, manufactured and built in the UK.
It provided at it's peak 4200 jobs in the UK and that figure does not include the third part contractors that are involved in the processes of car manufacture.
Who do you think gets more money?
The few executives who get higher salaries or the collective majority of employees who get lower salaries?
Who would be spending more money on the proverbial "high street"; the few exectives or the majority of employees?

Of course, the Honda Civic is an unfair example as it is for all intent purposes a UK car but it shows why it is too simple to say that buying an import car hurts your countries economy. Of course that isn't to say that buying a truly home grown/developed car doesn't benefit more but the basic fact is, any sale of car helps the economy, especially when it isn't a sale based on credit.

You can't answer whether doing 90% of the work locally is better for the local economy than something that is done 50% locally? Those are just rough guesses, but from what I've seen, the majority of Japenese import parts are manufactured in Japan, shipped to the assembly line and assembled there.

Of course it matters how much management makes. The "big guys" make multi-millions of dollars a year, compared to $100k or so for the assembly line workers. I know it's not a lot of money per vehicle, but multiply a few dollars by millions of vehicles and all of a sudden we're talking about real money. And that money will spent, primarily, locally... wherever "locally" is.

Lets see some documentation that says the Civic was designed in the UK.

How can you say helping less isn't hurting? Lets say someone is going to make a large purchase, and decide to buy something made close to home. Now they decide to buy something that's only assembled close to home. All the same jobs need to be done to get the product from raw materials into a finished product. By purchasing the one that isn't made entirely locally, you are taking money away from local people. If I was going to give you $1, then someone comes along and says "Only give him $.75", did they help you or hurt you?

That's kinda my point.
I don't know how many domestic cars in your country are 90% US made or how many import brand cars are 50% foreign made (or any other percentage).

Of course it stands that the more a car is made domestically, the more it plays a part in your country's economy but my point with the Honda Civic is that a foreign brand doesn't automatically mean it is a "foreign" car.

Incidentally, I got my facts wrong with the Civic.
It was the 2001 Civic which the UK Honda R&D were part of and it is only the hatchback Type-R of the current model that is/was developed in the UK.
I put that and the fact that Mugen UK is a key office in the development and assumed that the current Civic was a UK job.


Going back to the salaries.
It's like this.
Let's take a common spending ground; groceries.
Who is going to be spending more in total on groceries per week;
The few high paid executives or the many lower paid workers?
Let's use the 4200 figure for the UK Honda employees.
Let's say 200 of those are higher paid people.
Let's say they spend a whopping £400 on shopping per week.
That would equate to a rediculous £80,000 a week total.
Let's assume that the other guys spend £50 a week.
That would equate to £200,000 a week.

Can you see what I'm getting at?
It's about the number of people who get money to spend.
That also doesn't take into account the fact that Japan (as we're on Japanese cars at the moment) has very natural resources. Any metal/oil/gas it uses in its industry is imported; thus, Japanese manufacturing also plays a part in foreign economies anyway.

That is true for many other countries.
That is why it is a foolish and short-sighted idea to only buy products of your own country as a means to increase your own economy. The best way to boost your economy is to get other countries to buy your products as it increases trade globally and with trade comes confidence to commit to long term plans/developments in agreements.

Put it this way.
An American spends $50 in the US.
The net effect is zero because he hasn't added anything to the country; in effect he has just passed $50 on.
A foreign body comes and spends $50 which he brought from where-ever home is.
That $50 didn't originate in the US so it has added $50 to what was originally there.

That isn't to say that keeping money moving through the system isn't a good thing because it is and is why maintaining liquidity was the first area of concern when dealing with the recession but it is just one factor of the economy.

lol you guys are still arguing that we should be forced to only buy American cars? Jeez even the Communists in the former Soviet Union weren't forced to buy crappy Russian cars (those that could afford cars, anyway!).

Would you also suggest that no one in other countries buy American cars? Because fair is fair in the world market, let's take away export sales from Ford/Dodge/GM, and force them to close all of their overseas plants. How does that help our economy? The way things are now GM probably makes more from overseas sales than domestic sales. Good way to shoot yourself in the foot.

What the heck are you talking about?....

There is no standard to buy or not to buy,people just buy the things what they want or need according to their personal use.

There is no standard to buy or not to buy,people just buy the things what they want or need according to their personal use.

It's true. We bought a Hyundai not because I necessarily wanted to support the Korean auto market, but the combination of the vehicle features, performance and dealership/manufacturer support made us choose that option. Had there been an equal option from Chevy, Ford or Dodge, I would have considered it equally, and chosen which one I liked best, which is the way the marketplace should work. If other companies are beating the Domestics in their home turf with better products and better warranies, it is no fault of theirs but rather of the Domestic brands for getting lazy.

^ did that guy just say Hyundai and performance in the same sentence?? :rofl:

i kid, i kid...