B20 vs B18c5

Which is better, B20 or B18C5?

Why?

What are their statistics?

How much do they usually run as far as money is concerned?

as for the B18C5.........
1797cc (1.8L) DOHC VTEC
197hp/134trq
11:1 Compression Ratio
Hydraulic LSD Transmission
$5999
+ Shipping from
http://www.streetimports.com/homepage.htm

DO NOT GO TO STREETIMPORTS!!!!!!!! I got my engine from them and THEY SUCK!!!! I've had more problems with my engine than I know what to do with. As far as the difference, the B18C5 would be more reliable and have probably more torque than B20 depending on how you build the B20 and what trans you use. The problem with your question is you can build a B20 Vtec to do a lot it just depends on how you build it, but if you build a mild setup it will most likely cost you less the the B18C5. If you want a daily driver I would go with the B18C1 or a B16A there both really good engines and put out a lot of hp. Its up to you though

Stock USDM B20b

Compression 8.8:1
Horsepower: 126hp @ 5400
Torque: 133lb-ft @ 4300

This motor comes WITHOUT VTEC, comes out of a CRV.

Stock B18c5

Compression: 10.6:1
Horsepower: 195hp @ 8000
Torque: 130lb-ft @ 7500

This motor has VTEC, comes out of an Integra Type R.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

First off let me start with saying you are comparing apples to oranges here. I dont know if you are talking about CRVTEC or just the plain old CRV motor. Either way, this motor has far more potential IMO when it comes to tuning.

Why you ask? Because the B18c5 is a B18c thats already been worked. Think about it, Honda built this motor to be good out of the box - its very hard (note EXPENSIVE) to mess with perfection.

B20 on the other hand was never really meant to be a tuner motor - however being that Honda motors are so easy to swap, any idiot with half a potato chip IQ for a brain can see the direct benefits. The old term theres "no replacement for displacement" holds true even to Honda. Look at t he torque numbers - 133ft-lbs @ 4300 RPM vs. the Type R's 130ft-lbs @ 7500 RPMS! Your making more torque in the CRV motor before the Type R even engages VTEC! Whats this mean? Even stock for stock, you could take a Type R swap off the line... However if both motors were stock, the Type R would eventually real you in and pass you.

For the price of the Type R swap, you could build a hell of a CRVTEC swap (B20 block w/ VTEC head) or hell turbo the sucker! Either way CRV is the way to go. Let me know, ive got plenty of motors to go around! :smoka:

So what if I took a B20 longblock and a B18C5 head and put them together? How much horsepower/torque are we talking then?

What about cost?

The head will probably be a lot, why not just get a B16a head or a GSR head, the only difference I think between the B18C5 is the cams. You'll have to research the head not too many places are gonna sell a B18C5 head, but I'll bet your gonna pay out the ass for one

Originally posted by zippeay
DO NOT GO TO STREETIMPORTS!!!!!!!! I got my engine from them and THEY SUCK!!!! I've had more problems with my engine than I know what to do with. As far as the difference, the B18C5 would be more reliable and have probably more torque than B20 depending on how you build the B20 and what trans you use. The problem with your question is you can build a B20 Vtec to do a lot it just depends on how you build it, but if you build a mild setup it will most likely cost you less the the B18C5. If you want a daily driver I would go with the B18C1 or a B16A there both really good engines and put out a lot of hp. Its up to you though

More displacement means more torque, therefore a b20 would have more torque. The b20 also has lower compression and is stronger so it will be more reliable. A B20 with B16 head and GSR transmission would be your best solution.

Alrighty,

So what kind of modifcations do I have to have to make this whole scheme work together? As far as lining the head up with the block, getting the transmission to line up with the block, it all sounds kind of difficult. But I guess this is not something easy. As far as the engine is concerned, what do you think the output hp/tq would be?

Do a search for CRVtec and there are a ton of sites that go through on how to do it step by step, but if you don't shit about cars I would even mess with it. Find a shop and have them do it, it will cost you more but it will probably be done right. As far as transmitions go all B series trans will bolt right up to any B series block, hence a B16a trans will work B18C will work, got it??? Good luck

Neither, just build a B16 and be happy with the money and headaches you save. I don't believe you should frankenstein hondas, they are harmonious the way they are. It's your time and money though.

Originally posted by zippeay
The head will probably be a lot, why not just get a B16a head or a GSR head, the only difference I think between the B18C5 is the cams. You'll have to research the head not too many places are gonna sell a B18C5 head, but I'll bet your gonna pay out the ass for one

B18C5 head is a B16 head which is better for valve clearance in a B20VTEC setup, but produces slightly lower compression due to the dome. It has more than just cams over the B18C1 head. It has a mild port/polish, better valves, and improved springs. That's why you get the extra 200rpm on the redline.

Cool I didn't know that, you learn something every day, thanks

alright a B20 would take a type R for like the first .5 sec. of a race stock a B20 is best matched with a B16 head and most common but you have to route the oil which as a couple things of machining to do and the intake manifold produces a little better top end power B20 the sleeves are weak so those would need to be replaces you would need a block girdle which takes a little time to install. you would probably want to raise the compression a little bit cause that compression is not for performance engines on the type R you could also raise the compression a little bit and other then that it is small mod's like fly wheel adjustable cam gears, cam pulleys and stuff like that. the B20 doesnt have very much aftermarket support considering it belongs in an SUV

Originally posted by anthony417
as for the B18C5.........
1797cc (1.8L) DOHC VTEC
197hp/134trq
11:1 Compression Ratio
Hydraulic LSD Transmission
$5999
+ Shipping from
http://www.streetimports.com/homepage.htm
Are they on crack!?!?!You do realize that,tha tmotor goes for about $1600 less than that right?And 11.1:1 cr?You really shouldn't post shit like that.Sleeve it,new rods,pistons,etc...get the dowel and oil lines machined in and go crvtec,here is a link with more info on a crvtec build up. (http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/b20vtec/b20vtec.php)

Originally posted by anthony417
as for the B18C5.........
1797cc (1.8L) DOHC VTEC
197hp/134trq
11:1 Compression Ratio
Hydraulic LSD Transmission
$5999
+ Shipping from
http://www.streetimports.com/homepage.htm

:flash: for 6gs you can have a nice awd talon tsi, godamn thats too much for a b18c5 4500 should be the most and thats even too much for a 4 banger

you can find a B18C5 with all the same components for less then that well i know i can anyway and as for the talon idea dont cheap out atleast get an eclipse GSX talons drive like sh*t

Originally posted by 94delsolSI
you can find a B18C5 with all the same components for less then that well i know i can anyway and as for the talon idea dont cheap out atleast get an eclipse GSX talons drive like sh*t

Aren't they... the same?

pretty much talons are just cheaper and i dont like them but other people do i guess so its all cool

isnt it the tails and spoiler and front bumper that are different.

and I was planning on a 95 talon TSI AWD and drove it and everything. does not drive likre shit, drives NICE! it was so much fun to drive, but wasnt allowed to get a used turbo cuz my parents talked to a mechanic and he worried them about the bearings in the turbo.

but anyways, yes i like honda more, but it was a NICE car.

and I vote on B20 as well.

So, you should get the B20 if you plan on building, but the B18C5 if you don't, right (anyone)>?

Originally posted by bcsintegra
So, you should get the B20 if you plan on building, but the B18C5 if you don't, right (anyone)>?
It would depend on what you were looking to do with the motor.If you were going to boost or actually tear everyting apart and rebuild a sick all motor than the B20 would be a wiser choice,as the C5 is already a damn good street motor and the gains you would see from tearing it down and building it back up wouldn't be worth the cost of the motor plus the parts.The B20 blocks can be bought chea[ and that leaves a ton of room and money for the build up.

how cheap??? and what about that whole thing about the b20 isn't meant to rev to 8 or 9 grand and that it would be unreliable??

Originally posted by sparq
Stock USDM B20b

Compression 8.8:1
Horsepower: 126hp @ 5400
Torque: 133lb-ft @ 4300

This motor comes WITHOUT VTEC, comes out of a CRV.

Stock B18c5

Compression: 10.6:1
Horsepower: 195hp @ 8000
Torque: 130lb-ft @ 7500

This motor has VTEC, comes out of an Integra Type R.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

First off let me start with saying you are comparing apples to oranges here. I dont know if you are talking about CRVTEC or just the plain old CRV motor. Either way, this motor has far more potential IMO when it comes to tuning.

Why you ask? Because the B18c5 is a B18c thats already been worked. Think about it, Honda built this motor to be good out of the box - its very hard (note EXPENSIVE) to mess with perfection.

B20 on the other hand was never really meant to be a tuner motor - however being that Honda motors are so easy to swap, any idiot with half a potato chip IQ for a brain can see the direct benefits. The old term theres "no replacement for displacement" holds true even to Honda. Look at t he torque numbers - 133ft-lbs @ 4300 RPM vs. the Type R's 130ft-lbs @ 7500 RPMS! Your making more torque in the CRV motor before the Type R even engages VTEC! Whats this mean? Even stock for stock, you could take a Type R swap off the line... However if both motors were stock, the Type R would eventually real you in and pass you.

For the price of the Type R swap, you could build a hell of a CRVTEC swap (B20 block w/ VTEC head) or hell turbo the sucker! Either way CRV is the way to go. Let me know, ive got plenty of motors to go around! :smoka:


I would have to Agree with Sparq. I have been looking at the B20 swap for sometime now. I think it is a awesome swap and I would rather go with that over a Type-R but I guess it all depends on what type of racing you do. Type-R would be awesome for Auto-X. B20/VTEC awesome for 1/4 mile racing.

B18c1 is probably my favorite motor, I'd say go with with the b18c5 but the b20b is a great bottom end for a turbo, plus its doubtful that you'll find a cheap b18c5. Whats genious about the b20 is that it was built by tweaking a b18. I'll explain, ok first off the B16A and the B18B, share the same block with the engine's overall width of 601 mm. The B18B's 1834-cc capacity was obtained by stroking the B16A to 89 mm. Now the b20b utilizes consecutive liner construction, "quad-sequential sleeve block." the distance between the inner walls of the adjoining cylinders, are reduced to 6 mm from the separate lines' 9 mm of the b18b, while retaining the same bore pitch. This enables the b20b an addition of 3 mm to the bore of 84 mm which, combined with the B18B's 89 mm stroke increases the engine's cubic capacity to 1972 cc. The b20b is also one of the lightest motor's for its displacement. Mated with the proper head the b20b is a deadly base, then again over 100hp per liter as a base is not something you want to overlook. The C5 is not lacking tuning potential, but the b20/replacement head will be most cost efficent as well as a better base for a turbo motor.

Originally posted by hybridsol
B18c1 is probably my favorite motor, I'd say go with with the b18c5 but the b20b is a great bottom end for a turbo, plus its doubtful that you'll find a cheap b18c5. Whats genious about the b20 is that it was built by tweaking a b18. I'll explain, ok first off the B16A and the B18B, share the same block with the engine's overall width of 601 mm. The B18B's 1834-cc capacity was obtained by stroking the B16A to 89 mm. Now the b20b utilizes consecutive liner construction, "quad-sequential sleeve block." the distance between the inner walls of the adjoining cylinders, are reduced to 6 mm from the separate lines' 9 mm of the b18b, while retaining the same bore pitch. This enables the b20b an addition of 3 mm to the bore of 84 mm which, combined with the B18B's 89 mm stroke increases the engine's cubic capacity to 1972 cc. The b20b is also one of the lightest motor's for its displacement. Mated with the proper head the b20b is a deadly base, then again over 100hp per liter as a base is not something you want to overlook. The C5 is not lacking tuning potential, but the b20/replacement head will be most cost efficent as well as a better base for a turbo motor. :ylsuper :thumbup:

No freaking contest.. Whatsoever. you buy the b20b longblock. Strap a hellafied turbo on it, some rods, and an intake. Game over for the c5.

I have seen a 350whp b20 turbo swap in a CRX. No joke. Absolutely devastating. If you get that kind of power from a b18c5, call me, cause it's been a while since i talked to god. PSSHH

Damn I actually wrote that? Must have been one of my better days :iceslolan :bigthumb:

I think everyone has there.. Daze ;)

I guess i was just bring it back into the light lol

i agree with hybrid my fav is the b18c i wanna get one but i have no money lol id just got b18c turbo for some street fun unless you wanna go all out than id just go b20vtec.

I see that noone besides me is interested in having a 350 whp honda. Oh well your loss. The entire swap(including additional parts) to attain this kind of rating is less than $8000.

Now you have to think, put the c5 in the ride, have about 167 hp to the ground. you would have to spend at least 3000 to get it to pump 230 to the ground(MINIMUM of $3000). right there is your $8000 and you aren't close to the potential of the b20. Also, the b20b has more torque stock. I know I am repeating some previously posted information, but it's my keyboard, I'll type what I like.


:thefinger

Originally posted by d3f4ult
I see that noone besides me is interested in having a 350 whp honda. Oh well your loss. The entire swap(including additional parts) to attain this kind of rating is less than $8000.

Nope, I can't speak for everyone, but I don't really care about the straight line too much.. I'd rather spend 3000 on the engine, and the other 5000 on suspension mods to make the shit outhandle your 350 whp understeering monster.

+I like a realiable car.

actually, we were only talking about the engine swap itself. The rex in my front yard has tien coilovers, ingalls camber kit, strut tower braces, z10 traction bar, neuspeed sway bars, and a roll cage. Easily as nimble as anything else you would spend money on.

If you don't mind me asking, default, how do you pay for all this?

network administrator/systems administrator. Inherited a house i make no payments on. I seem to have a surplus of cash. ;)

Originally posted by d3f4ult
No freaking contest.. Whatsoever. you buy the b20b longblock. Strap a hellafied turbo on it, some rods, and an intake. Game over for the c5.

I have seen a 350whp b20 turbo swap in a CRX. No joke. Absolutely devastating. If you get that kind of power from a b18c5, call me, cause it's been a while since i talked to god. PSSHH
Hybridsol's Del sol runs 355hp @ 270 lbs of torque turbo b18c5, and you don't have to spend 3 grand. But the b20 is definetly cheaper and much easier to work with considering its lower CR. among other things.

nice. the b20 is pumping 12-14 psi to attain that. What kinda boost is the c5 pulling? would be a damn good race :)

What about the C1, it could easily be in the contest talking money-wise. You can find one of those for around 2,700; and I heard that the GSR takes the ITR off the line every time, but it gets pulled like hell when the Type-R hits 3rd. A small build and turbo on one of those and you should be straight too.

While we are all talking about our own cars... How about the h22.. 156 ftlbs of torque, 200 HP. 2200 for the motor.

the difference between the c1, c5, b20 and h22,

c1,c5,b20 are basically the same bottom end. A few small changes, stroke bore and whatnot. But almost about the same weight.

the H22 is DEFINATELY one heavy sonofabitch. Honestly, im not sure if you could fix the understeer brought around by one of them. While by installing a turbo b20 or c1, you will have about the same weight as a c5.

I post engine weights after while.


However, h22 in a prelude(where it was meant to be) is a good thing. :) Up the compression, billet rods, cams, intake, p&p, header. Have an all motor monster. lower the compression, billet rods, metal head gasket, bstud girdle, apply 20 psi. Have one fun ass ride ;)

Just a thought.

a b20 vtec can be good if its done right. if you dont know a shop with qualifications or experience to do it than I wouldnt even bother. if you wanna go all motor set up id go b18c5 i dont really care much for frankinstein motors. i like to rev high.

Originally posted by d3f4ult
the H22 is DEFINATELY one heavy sonofabitch. Honestly, im not sure if you could fix the understeer brought around by one of them. While by installing a turbo b20 or c1, you will have about the same weight as a c5.


Not really sure you know all that you think you know about motors.

*exert from Hasport website * The H22A is 175 to 185 lbs heavier than stock D-series drivetrains and 85 lbs heavier than a B16A drivetrain.

175 to 185 lbs... thats like cruising along with a friend in the car. Most people hardly even notice the differance in speed - not to mention where is this weight? Over the FRONT wheels... can you remind me again what wheels power a Honda? Thats right - the FRONT wheels.

A basic set of ground controls "cheapy" coilovers w/ a flipped spring rate, and an added front bar will correct most if not ALL suspension problems. I know guys that Auto X their H22 swapped EG's...

hey.. i was just defending the b20.. Prelewd talking like it was 900000000 pounds or something.

:)

:confused: Say what? 9000000000 pounds? If you could point that out to me that'd be great...

Just jonesin ya man. shit calm the fuck down.

Originally posted by d3f4ult
Just jonesin ya man. shit calm the fuck down.

Yea, sometimes I get a little irate over nothing at all. You should see the holes in my wall next to my computer desk because of what you said. My printer is on the floor in pieces, and my cat is dead now... OOPS! I swear to god, if one of you says anything else bad about the H22, there's going to be hell to pay.

Actually.... no. The statement prior to the quote wasn't meant to be any sort of agressive. I meant 2200 DOLLARS, just to clear up any would-be misconceptions.

You know what you need? A turbo kit... how about 315 WHP @ 10 psi? I know you wanna !!!!!!!! :bigthumb:

well i must say i am a fan of frankenstein motors. i have one:biggrin: i tell you what i wish i had done the b20 instead of the lsvtec but im still enjoying myself and the ls block was almost free so im not complaining. with my setup the way it is (which is not to its full potential at all) i have destroyed type r's, gsr swapped eg's, and rsx type s's. no im not into street racing this was all done in a closed area i choose not to disclose at this moment but anyways. i have a high compression lsvtec right now and if i swapped my pistons and rods, went turbo, id be dominating and pullin 10 second et's (maybe:biggrin: )

so im trying to say that there is nothing wrong with franky motors as long as they are done right. it all depends on your budget. i think the ultimate setup would be a b20vtec turbo. you could easily push over 400hp in one of those.

b18c5 is more of a novelty item. its a great motor but in all honesty it should be left in stock form. type r should stay type r.

Well said Edman. Prelewd, you still wub me! lol. Had a rough day, I shouldn't take it out on the forums. anyway, b20 vtec or non vtec it doesn't matter. the non vtec with 13 psi will pump about 325-350 whp. im sure the Vtec would be a nice addition, but boost is boost. Vtec is Vtec. I want to build an all motor vtec monster, AND an all boostij monster. All motor, I'd probably use a b18c1. billet rods, stud girdle, hellafied pistons, p&p cams, intake, header, chip. would pump hella HP for an all motor car.

But I digress. When i am done with the car all together I'll post pics. And not a second sooner :)

Originally posted by d3f4ult
nice. the b20 is pumping 12-14 psi to attain that. What kinda boost is the c5 pulling? would be a damn good race :)
I believe its 14 psi don't quote me on that. I'll IM him next time he's on and make him aware of the post.

so wut do u actually need for a frankenstein motor besides the b16 head and b20 block......i guess u can use the gsr tranny but what about the harness, computer, motor mounts, lines, etc etc.....

I am not going the vtec route.. b20b non vtec will hella boost.

:)

You guys have danced around the issue so much.

Alright, B20 is great for a turbo, low compression setup, cheap, and large horsepower gains, but so what if you have a B20 block? What the hell kind of head are you going to slap on that thing? Would it be the flawless B16A? B18C1? Or the port and polished B18C5? All this talk of turbo's, but what kind would you get? Have any of you read what CRVTEC had to say about such a difficult swap? Swaps aren't easy, but what is very hard is rerouting the oil lines and rewiring the harness and ECU to have VTEC (On my non-VTEC car). So what I'm trying to say is that all you guys have done is danced around the fact that the B20 is a good block to work with. "Where's the beef?"

Amen brother, preach on!

Alright, B20 is great for a turbo, low compression setup, cheap, and large horsepower gains, but so what if you have a B20 block? What the hell kind of head are you going to slap on that thing? Would it be the flawless B16A? B18C1? Or the port and polished B18C5? All this talk of turbo's, but what kind would you get? Have any of you read what CRVTEC had to say about such a difficult swap? Swaps aren't easy, but what is very hard is rerouting the oil lines and rewiring the harness and ECU to have VTEC (On my non-VTEC car). So what I'm trying to say is that all you guys have done is danced around the fact that the B20 is a good block to work with. "Where's the beef?"

As far as heads go for the CRVtech, i would put on a B16a2 head ported an polished it will be cheaper then going out and buying a b18c5 head and it will be just as good if not better. And as far as turbo goes i would put on a 14b turbo from the first gen eclipse or if you wanna be fancy get the gen 3 drag turbo kit, and use it with a spearco intercooler. I would also use a gsr transmission with a mugen ECU. The hardest part of the swap is tapping the oil lines properly, and rooting them around the turbo and such properly. And as far as the wiring harness goes i believe you would have to make a completely custom wiring harness, because i have never seen a company make em. You would also want a lightend flywheel and a exedy stage 2 clutch setup. And for the intake manifold i would you the b16a2 intake manni. With a turbo motor you probably gonna want some forged pistons, and i would go with a zex or the CTR camshafts. Your probably gonna want to upgrade the valvetrain to with some titanium valve springs and retainers, and some new push rods while your at it. Your gonna want adjustable cam gears to i would go with AEM they are decent and reliable. Your also gonna want a V-AFC and a new fuel rail with i would go some 750cc injectors from venom, you might want a venom fuel moduel as well.

All in all this whole setup would be extremely difficult like Gogeta195 said.

Now this is my idea of how you could do it, but i could be wrong so someone correct me if i am, i may be missing some things.

all this talk about b18's does anyone know where to get a decent priced b series engine?

www.hmotorsonline.com

Anyone know of anywhere to get a B20z on the East coast?

blah!

wow thanks for the website, i wonder if anyone would want to do a group buy for b18c1? maybe get them down to $2200 ..hahaha jst dreaming

why would you want a b series engine if you have an rsx?