'96 Park Avenue - Cranks but won't start

We drove the Park Avenue on Sunday, and had no problems with it. Started right up, and ran fine all day long. No problems for a couple of years now, since we had the fuel pump done, along with either the cam or crank position sensor.

Then, yesterday morning, I went to start it, and it cranked, but would not start.

I replaced the coils and the ignition control module, since I don't figure they've been done in a long time, and they are easiest, but there was no difference.

I don't have diagnostic tools, so I guess I am looking for some advice.... The gas tank is full, it turns over fine. I am thinking ignition switch, fuel filter, or who knows....

Thanks,

Bob

Since you do not have diagnostic tools, it may be a little difficult. I would like for you to atleast try to get a test light from advance or autozone it can help out a little. But you can check for spark by doing this, pull a boot off of one of the spark plugs, insert a screwdriver and hold it to where the metal part of the screwdriver is about a quarter inch away from a ground, maybe a hair less. Make sure you are holding the handle away from the metal part of the screwdriver, have someone turn the motor over and watch for spark. If you don't have anyone to help you may be able to lie it in place and get in and see from the gap under the hood with the hood up and tell. You should be able to hear the fuel pump come on when you first turn the key on, you should hear it for a few seconds. You may have to go to the back of the car and take the cap off and have someone turn the key to on. Let us know what you are experiencing(no spark, or fuel pump not coming on, or both spark and fuel pump coming on), and get back with the results.

Wow... Thanks for the fast reply..

I put a screwdriver in the plug wire, and got no spark. I do hear the fuel pump, and I smell a bit of gas, so I guess we know the problem is electrical.

I wish I had kept up with this. I used to rebuild my old Holley Carb, replace points and condenser... Heck, I even put electronic ignition on my '69 Dodge Polara... This stuff is a bit different.

Thanks again...

Bob

Could be several things to look at next, the first thing I would look at is the ignition fuse.

Problems could be power not getting to the coils, or a problem with the ignition module or the crankshaft position sensor stopping the coils from getting the ground pulses it needs. Hope that helps, other than looking at the fuse you will have to get a test light or a multimeter.

I know you have new coil packs and ignition module but I still suggest getting the test equipment first before changing out the crank sensor just in case.

Ok. Is there a specific tester that would be best to look for?

Wait...I looked up a Multimeter, so it is pretty self-explanatory. I will either borrow one or pick one up tomorrow.

I don't find a mention of an ignition fuse in the book... Where is it located?

Hi the first thing you will need and should have done is connect a scanner to the diagnostic link under the dash on the driver side check for codes scanners are $25-50 at parts store a basic one is fine.also you need to verify the fuel pressure with a fuel pressure gauge over 40psi the pumps are subject to failure especialy if you run below 1/4 tank is the amber check engine or service engine soon light illuminated when you turn the key on if not check ecm fuses.sounds like a crank sensor.locate and disconect the MAF sensor on the air induction inlet disconect it and crank engine.also to rule out a fuel problem spray some carb cleaner in the brake booster hose downstream of the brake booster checkvalve.
last do you have a alarm? If so it could be the problem.If you cant find the problem you need to get a diganosis.

Regards,

Write back when you get something to test with I'm sure me or someone will get back to you and walk you through what to do.

PS A code scanner is not the answer to every problem and no do not go out and spend that money 25 to 50 dollars on it unless getting a test light or multimeter as well. Advance or autozone should test for free but you can't crank it to get it there. Either way you don't have to have it diagnose the problem you are experiencing.

Ok, so I went to Autozone, and got an Actron 7677 Auto Troubleshooter... A "not bottom of the line but not top of the line" multimeter. I did not get a code reader yet, but I will probably get that next. I never had a Check Engine light while it was running, but I'm sure there is still a code or 2 in there.

It may need a battery, but at least I have it. I just need some guidance as to what I need to do. Thanks in advance.

Bob

I will get back to you after you do this, but this is the first thing I want you to check, you should have a 20 amp fuse, fuse #6 in your fuse panel. Check that it is good. If so check to see also that you have juice there with the ignition key in the on position(put the meter on the dc voltage scale for voltage over 20 volts, put the black lead to a ground somewhere and touch the red lead to the tips on that fuse, it should read around 12 volts). If so, then I want you to check the pink wire going to your ignition coils, make sure you are getting 12 volts, again, black lead to ground and red lead to pink wire connection going to coil packs. Do this first will walk you through the rest when you get back. Post back with the results.

Ok, I want to make sure I get the right Fuse #6... Is this on the Passenger Side fuse box, for the Fuel Pump?

In the meantime, I disconnected the negative battery cable, unhooked the connector for the ingnition control module, and checked the pink lead. It had 11.76 volts. Then, I removed each coil, and checked the bottom lead of the 2, and each had 11.79 volts, except the top coil, which had 11.54 volts.

I will check the #6 fuse on the passenger side, and post back.

Well, I may have gave you the wrong fuse number if it said it was for your fuel pump, either way that was just the first thing I wanted you to do before checking for voltage going to the coil packs. We know the fuse is good since you have voltage going to it.

So now I want you to check this, you have a yellow wire, and a Lt blue/white wire going into your ignition module, this part may be harder to check because you have to have someone cranking the engine over while you check this on. But put the red lead to a batter positive somewhere, could just use the pink wire since you know it has juice on it now. Then take the black lead and put on the yellow wire and have someone turn the engine over, the reading should fluctuate around with the motor turning over, same thing with the Lt blue/white wire. If it does not, then the crank sensor is probably bad. If it does, the ignition module is probably bad.

Dumb question time...

Do I clip the tester onto the outside of the wire? There does not seem to be a way to stick the probe into the backside of the connector. I presume that I am to leave the connector attached to the module.

Dumb question time...

Do I clip the tester onto the outside of the wire? There does not seem to be a way to stick the probe into the backside of the connector. I presume that I am to leave the connector attached to the module.

Sry, I hate to recommend this but manuals always tell you to back probe the terminals and the test lead will never fit in. I have a set that I've filed down really sharp that I usually just push through the wire insulation, I've also before took a knife and skinned back a little of insulation and go to the wire that way, and covered the wire back up with electrical tape after.

My wife just ordered a movie on ppv I'm gonna watch it I hope someone can pick up where I left off and maybe also correct any errors I may have made if any.

I was able to scrape the wire a bit, and I did get a fluctuation while cranking. If the Ignition Module is bad, that sucks, since I just replaced it, but there is always the possibility it was bad too. I will check back tomorrow, or later on tonight, to see if anyone has further suggestions. My boss is bringing in his OBD scanner, so I can borrow it to see if there are any codes.

I truly appreciate your time. I have seen this sort of help on car forums before, but this is the first time I have really needed it. Thank you, whether we fix this or not. In any case, I hope you enjoyed the movie. I am going to fix the kid some dinner.

No prob, you were easy to instruct on how to do the tests, you didn't come back with alot of questions and you described your results well which makes it easier. I feel very strongly that your ignition module is bad now at this point.

OK, chalk this up to strange things...

After re-replacing the Ignition Control Module, I was still getting the same result as before, which was cranking, but not starting.

I had just resigned myself to not spending more time or money on the car, which I was only keeping to drive while I get some work done on my Suburban.

Today, I was going to push the Buick out of the way, so I could get the Suburban out to the mechanic, and for grins, I tried to start it, and it cranked right over.

This would have been great, had it happened after I finished working on it, with the help of ctwright. However, since this is a few days later, having tried to start it several times over the last few days, I am concerned about whether this is a fluke, or if it is really fixed.

I guess I drive it around town, and see if the problem resurfaces. Maybe it was a fuel filter, and it just needed to settle? Who knows. I thought I was getting gas and no spark, but now I get both.

Anyway....We'll see what we'll see.

Bob

OK, chalk this up to strange things...

After re-replacing the Ignition Control Module, I was still getting the same result as before, which was cranking, but not starting.

I had just resigned myself to not spending more time or money on the car, which I was only keeping to drive while I get some work done on my Suburban.

Today, I was going to push the Buick out of the way, so I could get the Suburban out to the mechanic, and for grins, I tried to start it, and it cranked right over.

This would have been great, had it happened after I finished working on it, with the help of ctwright. However, since this is a few days later, having tried to start it several times over the last few days, I am concerned about whether this is a fluke, or if it is really fixed.

I guess I drive it around town, and see if the problem resurfaces. Maybe it was a fuel filter, and it just needed to settle? Who knows. I thought I was getting gas and no spark, but now I get both.

Anyway....We'll see what we'll see.

Bob

You more than likely had it flooded due to the many crank attempts, I'm not going to promise that but I think you are good now. It probably just took awhile to burn all of the excess fuel out and evaporate as well. Wish you would have got back on and posted again when it wouldn't crank when you replaced the new module I would have went over clearing a flooded engine with you I'm pretty sure that is what your problem was though.

Well that makes good sense. I thought about posting right away, when it first happened. In fact, I wonder if that maybe wasn't the problem during all of our circuit testing, prior to my re-replacing the ignition module.

I have learned a great deal, so again, I greatly appreciate your time.