They want the world to believe THEY are peaceful...

…and Islam is the religion of peace?!?

Minister beaten after clashing with Muslims on his TV show
By Jonathan Petre
Last updated at 4:39 PM on 15th March 2009
A Christian minister who has had heated arguments with Muslims on his TV Gospel show has been brutally attacked by three men who ripped off his cross and warned: ‘If you go back to the studio, we’ll break your legs.’
The Reverend Noble Samuel was driving to the studio when a car pulled over in front of him. A man got out and came over to ask him directions in Urdu.
Mr Samuel, based at Heston United Reformed Church, West London, said: ‘He put his hand into my window, which was half open, and grabbed my hair and opened the door.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1162039/Minister-beaten-clashing-Muslims-TV-show.html

The Muslims I know or have worked with are in essence peaceful. The Islamic radical extremist and fundamentalists that perpetrate these bad acts or hate crimes add new meaning to that religion and have grossly distorted it. They give the others within that religion a bad name. Wahhabi and Takfeeri Muslims are a prime example.

I agree Bob, I have some excellent Muslim friends at work, who are fine family orientated people. We rarely discuss religion or politics, but during the election, one of them was boasting that he was voting for Obama, so I asked him why? He said that he thought Obama was really a Muslim at heart and would do more for the Muslims people than the other candidate. I did not argue with him, in fact all I could do was agree! :sly:

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but it seems that all terrorist are Muslim! What good is it for a person to gain the whole world & forfeit their own life? I hope that one of these days, Allah will run out of virgins, so all the terror & human sacrifices can come to an end! :grinyes:

Hang on, let's be fair. I'm not defending Muslim terrorists, but Tim McVeigh, the Unabomber, then the radicals back in the 70's, like the Weathermen, SDS, etc.?

How about the IRA? What about the Basque separatist movement?

Granted, the Muslims are the most rabid and plentiful, but not the only ones.

Hang on, let's be fair. I'm not defending Muslim terrorists, but Tim McVeigh, the Unabomber, then the radicals back in the 70's, like the Weathermen, SDS, etc.?

How about the IRA? What about the Basque separatist movement?

Granted, the Muslims are the most rabid and plentiful, but not the only ones.Fair enough, lets give credit where credit is due! :evillol:

Hang on, let's be fair. I'm not defending Muslim terrorists, but Tim McVeigh, the Unabomber, then the radicals back in the 70's, like the Weathermen, SDS, etc.?
How about the IRA? What about the Basque separatist movement?
Granted, the Muslims are the most rabid and plentiful, but not the only ones.
NONE of those hold a candle to the islamic nutjobs! Their holy book specifically directs the devout to destroy the infidels.

NONE of those hold a candle to the islamic nutjobs! Their holy book specifically directs the devout to destroy the infidels.

could you point to the verse?

could you point to the verse?

http://www.world-destiny.org/upteachofislam.htm

I am not a student of that book, but it has some thoughts there. :dunno:

could you point to the verse?

O believers! Take not infidels for friends rather than believers. Would
you furnish God with clear right to punish you? 4:143

The male shall have the portion of two females. 4:175

And if you have become unclean, then purify yourselves. But if you
are sick, or on a journey, of if one of you come from the place of
retirement, of if you have touched women, and you find no water,
then take clean sand and rub your faces and you hands with it. 5:9

O Believers! Take not the Jews or Christians as friends. They are
but one another's friends. If any one of you takes them for his
friends, he surely is one of them! 5:56

Of all men you will certainly find the Jews, and those who join other
gods with God, to be the most intense in hatred of those who believe;
and you shall certainly find those to be nearest in affection to them
who say, We are Christians.' This, because some of them are priests
and monks, and because they are free from pride. 5:85

Fight then against them until strife be at an end, and the religion be all
of it God's. 8:40
This is just a smattering of verses from their holy book. Now I am sure there are some who are less devout....and prefer civilization over living in caves and other squaller...that don't adhear to all of those teachings, but, none the less, that kind of stuff is taught in their holy book.

I hope that one of these days, Allah will run out of virgins, so all the terror & human sacrifices can come to an end! :grinyes:

Yeah Bo we joke about that all the time here. Actually it is not 72 virgins they will meet in paradise but a 72 year old virgin. :rofl:


Here are some more to add to the list. Can't vouch for the accuracy. However, when taken at face value it shocks you to see so much hatred being preached in a so called "Holy Book". :shakehead




"It is the same whether or not you forwarn them [the unbelievers], they will have no faith" (2:6).

"God will mock them and keep them long in sin, blundering blindly along" (2:15).

A fire "whose fuel is men and stones" awaits them (2:24).

They will be "rewarded with disgrace in this world and with grievous punishment on the Day of Resurrection" (2:85).

"God's curse be upon the infidels!" (2:89).

"They have incurred God's most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits [them]" (2:90).

"God is the enemy of the unbelievers" (2:98).

"The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Christians and Jews], and the pagans, resent that any blessing should have been sent down to you from your Lord" (2:105).

"They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter" (2:114).

"Those to whom We [God] have given the Book, and who read it as it ought to be read, truly believe in it; those that deny it shall assuredly be lost" (2:122).

"[We] shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate" (2:126).

"The East and the West are God's. He guides whom He will to a straight path" (2:142).

"Do not say that those slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, but you are not aware of them" (2:154).

"But the infidels who die unbelievers shall incur the curse of God, the angels, and all men. Under it they shall remain for ever; their punishment shall not be lightened, nor shall they be reprieved" (2:162).

Link to Source (http://www.truthdig.com/images/diguploads/verses.html)

ignoring the issues involved in translating arabic into english, i don't see anything to do with destroying non muslims, or anything that doesn't have a similar counterpart in the bible.
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The monkey really IS drunk?

"Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled. The Jews say, 'Ezra (Ozair) is a son of God'; and the Christians say, 'The Messiah is a son of God'. Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the sayings of the Infidels of old! God do battle with them! How are they misguided!..He it is who hath sent His Apostle with the Guidance and a religion of the truth, that He may make it victorious over every other religion, albeit they who assign partners to God be averse from it." (Sura 9:29-33).

"O Prophet! make war on the infidels and hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their abode! and wretched the passage to it!" (Sura 66:9).

anything that doesn't have a similar counterpart in the bible.

:confused:

What Bible do you read? Do you have blinders on? You might want to take off your blinders off. Show me! You asked others to put up. What is fair is fair.

most passages in the koran that deals with fighting non believers (or whatever you want to call then) come from the part that talks about jihad; that being a reaction to persecution. It isn't that the koran is full of passages teaching them to fight others but that there is one section that talks of actions against constant persecution/repression.
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Were we persecuting them when they destroyed the WTC?

most passages in the koran that deals with fighting non believers (or whatever you want to call then) come from the part that talks about jihad; that being a reaction to persecution. It isn't that the koran is full of passages teaching them to fight others but that there is one section that talks of actions against constant persecution/repression.

The truth of the matter is they oppress themselves. And you reap what you sow. You should see the profiles of these jihadists that get captured in Iraq or Afghanistan. I've seen the reports. :eek:

Still waiting for the similarities in the Bible or any mention about waging jihad (holy war). :wink:

sorry for brief previos posts; i was browsing from my phone and didn't have full access.

a link (http://www.scribd.com/doc/9653/Does-the-Quran-Say-to-Kill-the-Infidel-Islam-and-Terrorism) I wanted to post.

first of all, the attack on the twin towers can not be taken as an example of islam because as said before, an act of extremists/fundementalism is not indicitive of the religion.

secondly, because I missed it before.

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. Zechariah 13:3

You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you. Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods. If you do, they will trap you. Deuteronomy 7:16


Likewise, you wives should be subordinate to your husbands so that, even if some disobey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives' conduct when they observe your reverent and chaste behavior. Peter 3:1-2


When the Lord has pity on Jacob and again chooses Israel and settles them on their own soil, the aliens will join them and be counted with the house of Jacob. The house of Israel will take them and bring them along to its place, and possess them as male and female slaves on the Lord's soil, making captives of its captors and ruling over its oppressors. Isaiah 14:1-2


The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' Exodus 31:12-15


Whoever spoils his son will bind up his wounds, and will suffer heartache at every cry. An unbroken horse turns out stubborn, and an unchecked son turns out headstrong. Pamper a child, and he will terrorize you; play with him, and he will grieve you. Do not laugh with him, or you will have sorrow with him, and in the end you will gnash your teeth. Give him no freedom in his youth, and do not ignore his errors. Bow down his neck in his youth, and beat his sides while he is young, or else he will become stubborn and disobey you, and you will have sorrow of soul from him. Discipline your son and make his yoke heavy, so that you may not be offended by his shamelessness. Sirach 30:7-13


Then Jehoiada made a covenant between the LORD and the king and the people that they would be the LORD's people. He also made a covenant between the king and the people. And all the people of the land went over to the temple of Baal and tore it down. They demolished the altars and smashed the idols to pieces, and they killed Mattan the priest of Baal in front of the altars. Jehoiada the priest stationed guards at the Temple of the LORD. Kings 11:17-18


But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence. Luke 19:27


Far be it from us to desert the law and the ordinances. We will not obey the king's words by turning aside from our religion to the right hand or to the left." When he had finished speaking these words, a Jew came forward in the sight of all to offer sacrifice on the altar in Modein, according to the king's command. When Mattathias saw it, he burned with zeal and his heart was stirred. He gave vent to righteous anger; he ran and killed him on the altar. Maccabees 2:21-24


If anyone rebels against your orders and does not obey every command you give him, he shall be put to death. Joshua 1:18

The truth of the matter is they oppress themselves. And you reap what you sow.


That is also very true; that those who look for something will often find it.
I know it is a very tired argument but it is also a true one that context is key when taking into account a snippet of religious text.

There are Islamic publications that are banned in the UK (by Mosques) because in their translations and quoting, they deliberately mis-present the intention of the pasages. They leave out the qualifying/defining second verse or go with the most extreme translation. If you speak another language, especially if it is a non romanic one, you'll know how hard it is sometimes to find an exact translation of some words and terms.

As part of my martial arts training/teaching, I have to work from Chinese a lot and at times, there is no translation in English that matches the original. One example I can give is that in Chinese, there is a phrase, "centipede moves mountain" but in order to explain it, takes a good couple of sentences to do so. That is also ignoring the context of the phrase.

By the same token, I have come across some translation of things that just don't match what I know it to be because I know the original language.

In the case of the Quraan, in the UK especially, it is taught in Arabic but the students are not neccessarily taught Arabic. An ex of mine was Muslim and while she could read the texts (as in make the sounds) she did not know fully know what translates into what. What she was taught was an approximate translation into her language and english of the original Arabic.

In the case of the Quraan, in the UK especially, it is taught in Arabic but the students are not neccessarily taught Arabic. An ex of mine was Muslim and while she could read the texts (as in make the sounds) she did not know fully know what translates into what. What she was taught was an approximate translation into her language and english of the original Arabic.
So...they believe in a religion that they know nothing about?? Hmmmm...yeah let's sympathize with them. They are playing with a full deck after all.

So...they believe in a religion that they know nothing about?? Hmmmm...yeah let's sympathize with them. They are playing with a full deck after all.



you are really good at reading what isn't there aren't you?
:rolleyes:

who said anything about sympathy?
who said they know nothing about it?

I am telling of how the Quraan is taught (in the UK to Engish speaking/Non Arabic speaking Muslims)and how some people can come up with certain extreme translations.

How many times has the Bible been translated?
How many differences are there between the different translations?
How close is the English translation to the original?

Seeing as you didn't learn your Christianity from the original language, how do you know what the original really says?

Okay...you want to defend nut-jobs that's fine with me.

I have indeed studied the scriptures. I have studied SEVERAL translations. I know how easy it is to take scripture out of context. Many old testament verses were intended in specific instances and are intended more as historic teachings. I knew you would be able to find what you wanted for your purposes.

I didn't ask whether or not you know the scriptures, I asked how many times it has been translated and how many differences there are between the translations and how one (not you specifically) can know how close the modern translations is to the original.


Okay...you want to defend nut-jobs that's fine with me.


are you calling all Muslims nut jobs?
if so, how is that not persecution?


Many old testament verses were intended in specific instances and are intended more as historic teachings. I knew you would be able to find what you wanted for your purposes.


just like many of the often quote verses in the Quraan are taken out of context to fit a purpose.

hypocrisy and double standards?

It is their "group" that is responsible for the VAST majority of the nonsense going on in the world today. It isn't the Baptists, the Methodists, the Anglicans, the Catholics, et al...strapping bombs to themselves and reaping havoc among the innocent people of the world. You in the UK may wish to ignore that, but as for me....I think I prefer to be safer than that.

It is their "group" that is responsible for the VAST majority of the nonsense going on in the world today. It isn't the Baptists, the Methodists, the Anglicans, the Catholics, et al...strapping bombs to themselves and reaping havoc among the innocent people of the world. You in the UK may wish to ignore that, but as for me....I think I prefer to be safer than that.

oh really?

I bet more crimes/acts of violence/terror are being committed in the world by non Muslims than that being committed by Muslims.

I wonder how many of those responsible for the economic troubles were Muslim?

China isn't Islamic.
Russia isn't Islamic.
North Korea isn't Islamic.
Zimbabwe (Robert Mugabe) isn't Islamic.

Some of the most issue laden countries in the world right now and these don't have much to do with Islam.

the most recent acts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7933990.stm) of violence/terror on UK soil.
nothing to do with Islam.



in case you missed it the first time;
are you calling all Musilms nut jobs?
if so, how is that not persecution?

Oh....we were talking about economic troubles?!? I thought we were talking about the PEACEFUL muslim nutjobs. My bad.

No really, DM, I think if you continue in this vein you lose a lot of credibility, dude.

NONE of those hold a candle to the islamic nutjobs! Their holy book specifically directs the devout to destroy the infidels.


Didn't a certain religion, which I am almost certain you practice, execute tens of thousands of people over the course of time?



Any religion has it's extremists. I can site reference after reference on Christian extremists, Catholic extremists, Hindu extremists. Does that make any one religion worse than the other?

Didn't a certain religion, which I am almost certain you practice, execute tens of thousands of people over the course of time?

What the hell religion would that be? tens of thousands?

Any religion has it's extremists. I can site reference after reference on Christian extremists, Catholic extremists, Hindu extremists. Does that make any one religion worse than the other?

They PALE in comparison to the muslim extremists.

Oh....we were talking about economic troubles?!? I thought we were talking about the PEACEFUL muslim nutjobs. My bad.

No really, DM, I think if you continue in this vein you lose a lot of credibility, dude.


oh excuse me for thinking that the potential collapse of the world's economy isn't as exciting as a few fundementalists making bombs of themselves.


What the hell religion would that be? tens of thousands?

what's the latest civilian death count in Iraq?


and because you missed/ignored it a second time:
are you calling all Musilms nut jobs?
if so, how is that not persecution?

let's not forget that claiming that someone's religion is the source of all the world's violence and troubles doesn't count as a fundementalist/extremist perspective.

again; hypocrisy and double standards.


That would be the Christian kingdoms worried about some conspiracy threatening their beliefs through magic and poison. This resulted in mass gendercide throughout Europe during the 14th and 15th centuries.

I guess this doesn't count though as it does not play into your modern day extremism.

and you don't need to go that far back; Hitler was Catholic.

oh excuse me for thinking that the potential collapse of the world's economy isn't as exciting as a few fundementalists making bombs of themselves.

Just keeping on topic. We weren't talking about economic woes.
what's the latest civilian death count in Iraq?
They aren't dead due to persecution by a particular religion. (unless you consider that perhaps the Islamic extremists brought it on themselves)
and because you missed/ignored it a second time:
are you calling all Musilms nut jobs?
if so, how is that not persecution?
A hell of a lot of them....yes.BUT...calling one a "nut-job" isn't my idea of persecution. It is called restraint. I can think of a lot of other terminology.

Just keeping on topic. We weren't talking about economic woes.

Fair enough; I took your earlier comment as encompassing all troubles, violent or otherwise.
My error.


They aren't dead due to persecution by a particular religion. (unless you consider that perhaps the Islamic extremists brought it on themselves)

but they are dead as a result of the US invasion.
Last time I checked, Iraq didn't start that act of violence and the US isn't Islamic.


A hell of a lot of them....yes.

this is just baseless hyperbole.
how many Muslims do you know?


BUT...calling one a "nut-job" isn't my idea of persecution. I can think of a lot of other terminology.
And you say I risk losing credibility?


Incidentally, this line of discussion makes me wonder how many deaths are caused in your own country due to the actions of fundementalist/extremist Christians?
As far as I can google, there have been more than a fair share of nut job Christians.

The US didn't go into Iraq because we are religious zealots. The US went into that country to rid it of a mad man who was killing his own people because HE was a religious zealot, and the fact that HE was dangerous to the region and the US. I think you are trying to mix apples and oranges.

What the hell religion would that be? tens of thousands?


That would be the Christian kingdoms worried about some conspiracy threatening their beliefs through magic and poison. This resulted in mass gendercide throughout Europe during the 14th and 15th centuries.

I guess this doesn't count though as it does not play into your modern day extremism.

The US didn't go into Iraq because we are religious zealots.

Some would argue that the Commander in Chief at the time was a religious zealot.

anyway,
you were the one who claimed most of the worlds woes were caused by Muslims and Islam.
I pointed to the US invasion and the subsequent troubles as one example where it is just not true.

Don't misunderstand me.
I didn't mean that example to be one of another religion (in particular Christianity) being the cause of the situation; just wanted a recent case where it wasn't caused by Islam.
Incidentally, the official reason for the invasion was the WMDs, a topic that has already been done to death here and needs no further discussion.

also, going back to my earlier post:

China isn't Islamic.
Russia isn't Islamic.
North Korea isn't Islamic.
Zimbabwe (Robert Mugabe) isn't Islamic/Muslim.

I am amazed at your desire to divert to other topics. I was only referring to the violence associated with this so-called religion of peace. What the hell does China, Russia, NKorea, Zimbabwe have to do with world wide terrorism (jihad)?

Why do they call it "common" sense when it is so uncommon?

I am amazed at your desire to divert to other topics. I was only referring to the violence associated with this so-called religion of peace. What the hell does China, Russia, NKorea, Zimbabwe have to do with world wide terrorism (jihad)?

because you claimed:

It is their "group" that is responsible for the VAST majority of the nonsense going on in the world today


Why do they call it "common" sense when it is so uncommon?

and again with the personal attacks.

What the *** does China, Russia, NKorea, Zimbabwe have to do with world wide terrorism (jihad)?


Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Man, this thread is a trip now but entertaining nonetheless. :uhoh:....:lol: A lot of straw man arguments? :dunno:

DM, what are you implying with the above countries?

straw man arguments?
Possibly.

The poster is trying to say that Islam is a violent religion but ignores that his own religion is equally violent and has an equally violent past. He says that passages from the Bible can be taken out of context for what-ever purpose while ignoring the fact that is what is done with the Quraan when people say it teaches violence.

As I said, hypocrisy and double standards.


In case I misunderstood you here, what did you mean by:

It is their "group" that is responsible for the VAST majority of the nonsense going on in the world today

What do you mean by nonsense?

Ahh, Drunken One, if you'll look at the top of the page you'll see...
"Re: They want the world to believe THEY are peaceful... "
THAT is the topic.
Again...Baptists aint doing no suicide bombing, nor are any other christians that I know of. Our presence in Iraq has absolutely NOTHING to do with the US being primarily a christian nation.

Again, I didn't mean the US in Iraq to be an example of Christianity being violent; more that it is a case of violence and trouble in a place that is not because of Islam since you claimed that the vast majority of it around the world is caused by Islam.

If your only point is that Islam is a violent religion then all I can say is that it is no more violent than Christianity.
By the same token, Islam is as peaceful as Christianity.

Perhaps my error is assuming that Christianity is supposed to be a peaceful religion as well.

In my mind, a Christian calling Islam violent is the same as a Muslim calling Christianity violent and both equate to pot calling the kettle black.
Fundementalism/extremism is not indicative of the religion.

Again...Baptists aint doing no suicide bombing, nor are any other christians that I know of.
Nor would they riot if someone posts a cartoon in a newspaper that they don't particularly like, and if you read the artical at the beginning of this thread....you won't see any of that crap either.

Fundementalism/extremism is not indicative of the religion.
Pretty close...


I'm done

Individuals are also not indicative of the religion.
If they were, then what of the numerous cases of child molestation by priests and/or bishops?
What of the numerous Christian cults?
Is evangelism typical of Christianity?
Are Mormons typical of Christianity?

Are you really judging 1.5 million people on the actions of a few hundred?

Is now a good time remind people that the Ku Klux Klan were/are "Christian"?

Incidentally, this line of discussion makes me wonder how many deaths are caused in your own country due to the actions of fundementalist/extremist Christians?


Citations, please.

Citations, please.

No, I really was wondering.


My initial thoughts were on the various death cults that claim to be Christian
i.e David Koresh's Branch Davidians (or whatever they ended up calling themselves), Temple of Love, Order of the Solar Temple and their ilk

and how much damage they do compared to other religious fundementalists/extremists.

Well, how many people have these cults killed, that causes you to wonder about it?

Cults are NOT = Christianity!

Well, how many people have these cults killed, that causes you to wonder about it?

well, I know that the People's temple has a death toll of about 900 way back when, Temple of Love 14, wiki gives 76 for waco, others, not so sure


Cults are NOT = Christianity!

but that's the point.
They would say they are/were Christians.

Cults are an extension of fundementalism/extremism.
They are the minority.
They do not represent the religion.

Well, how many people have these cults killed, that causes you to wonder about it?Do you mean how many people they went out and killed? Wouldn't think that it would very many considering that they mainly keep to themselves and quietly commit suicide.... that is for the ones that the government didn't go in there and kill them all. For the later, the causalities are mainly the cult members, but I guess it's possible a few government officials could have gotten paper cuts while signing all those death warrants.

I was talking about cost of lives in general.

The interesting one to me is the Aum Shinrikyo and the sarin poisoning in Tokyo.
Wiki cites his influences being Buddhism, Christianity and Hinduism.

I guess what missing here is the simple explanation that ALL organized religions require an “enemy” and are based on hatred. From the Mayan public displays of sacrificing their enemy's thru the excesses of the Spanish Inquisition and the horror of the Third Reich people have been motivated by hatred and continue to be so.

The Bible is no better than the Quran, they both embrace hatred and violence. Some quotes from the Bible http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/BibleViolence.htm

95. God displays his hospitality with the admonition: "The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." 1:51

96. Two of Aaron's sons are killed by God for "offering strange fire before the Lord." 3:4

97. God repeats his order (see 1:51) to kill any strangers who happen to come near. 3:10

98. Once again (see 1:51 and 3:10) God tells his favorite people to kill any strangers that come near. 3:38

99. Don't touch or "go in to see when the holy things are covered." God kills people who touch or look at uncovered holy things. 4:15, 4:20

100. "And when the people complained, it displeased the Lord: and the Lord heard it." (He had his hearing aid on.) He then burns the complainers alive. That'll teach them. 11:1

101. "And wile the flesh [of the quails] was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was kindled against the people, and the Lord smote the people with a very great plague. "The Bible isn't too clear about what these poor folks did to upset God so much; all it says is that they had "lusted." 11:33

102. More plagues and pestilence sent by God. God repeats one of his favorite promises: "your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness." 14:12, 29, 14:32-37

103. God gives more instructions for the ritualistic killing of animals. The smell of burning flesh is "a sweet savour unto the Lord." 15:3, 13-14, 24

104. The Israelites find a man picking up sticks on the sabbath. God commands them to kill him by throwing rocks at him. 15:32-36

105. Because of a dispute between Korah and Moses, God makes the ground open up and it swallows Korah and his family. And then, just for the hell of it, God has a fire burn 250 men (friends of Korah?) to death. 16:20-49

106. After God killed Korah, his family, and 250 innocent bystanders, the people complained saying, "ye have killed the people of the Lord." So God, who doesn't take kindly to criticism, sends a plague on the people. And "they that died in the plague were 14,700." 16:41-50

107. God threatens to kill those who murmur. To which the people reply, "Behold, we die, we perish, we all perish .... Shall we be consumed with dying?" 17:12-13

108. According to this verse, it is wise to stay away from holy things and places -- like churches. God will kill you if you get too close. 18:3

109. God shows us how to make new friends by saying : "The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." 18:7

110. God describes once again the procedure for ritualistic animal sacrifices. such rituals must be extremely important to God, since he makes their performance a "statute" and "covenant" forever. Why, then don't Bible-believers perform these sacrifices anymore? Don't they realize how God must miss the "sweet savour" of burning flesh? Don't they believe God when he says "forever"? 18:17-19

111. Don't get near holy things or "pollute" them. If you do, God will kill you. 18:22, 32

112. The purification of the unclean. These absurd rituals, cruel sacrifices, and unjust punishments are vitally important to God. He even insists that they are to be "a perpetual statute" to all humankind. 19:1-22

That is also very true; that those who look for something will often find it.

I know it is a very tired argument but it is also a true one that context is key when taking into account a snippet of religious text.

I don't think anyone will disagree with that but people do take things out of context regardless of what religious book or reference it is from. The key is not to take what it says at face value or literally and try to understand or analyze the material and meaning. Anyone can surf the Net to find to bad or hate in the Bible or Koran but it really doesn't mean much.

Case in point and probably one of the most controversial passages is Luke 19:27 out of the New Testament. This is the main one the atheists or non-believers use to advance their opposing viewpoint. The problem is Jesus spoke in parables and this specific part of Luke covers "The Parable of the 10 Minas". So to put it into context you have to read and understand Luke 19:11 through 19:27. Keep in mind this is just one example and I can dig up a lot more but I don't want it to sound like I am preaching to everyone. :grinno:


But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence. Luke 19:27


Here is a good article from Time magazine going back to June 2005 which might shed some light on a jihadist in Iraq.


Inside the Mind of an Iraqi Suicide Bomber

Link to Article (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1077288-6,00.html)

This is the main one the atheists or non-believers use to advance their opposing viewpoint.
I know a lot of atheists, and none of them point to individual passages (including the one you pointed out) as a way to express their viewpoint, but take the Bible (and other religious texts) as whole so that all the ridiculous claims inside can be used.

Why use a girl's finger as an example that she's fat when you can show them a picture of the whole fat ass package? :lol:

Why use a girl's finger as an example that she's fat when you can show them a picture of the whole fat ass package? :lol:

:lol:

Yeah it is ironic that you have to read the religious reference in order to controvert it.

BTW - The Atheists I know won't even touch a Bible let alone read it. :tongue:

They want the world to believe THEY are peaceful...many are, but then again :nono:
The only person who matters is Allah--and the only question he will ask me is 'How many infidels did you kill?' Link to Article (http://redirectingat.com/?id=252X400&url=http%3A//www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0%2C9171%2C1077288-6%2C00.html) (Thanks to Bob)
Now, that pretty well sums up the thoughts & belief of an Islamic terrorists and demonstrates what a twisted & evil greeting they expect after death! I suppose Allah could care less about how many women & children, or other innocent bystanders are killed & mutilated, as long as an infidel goes with them. :dunno:

These extremists and are very sick people, who do not deserve any legal recourse for their actions, other than a firing squad! I wonder how Allah would judge them if they were executed before killing any infidels, cast them into Hell where they belong. :devilsign:

Wow. I didn't even bother reading the whole post but WE did have this discussion before about taking the verses out of context.

When it is all said and done I think it's fair to say that much more violence comes from the islamic extremists than from any other group. The article that started this thread is a good example of the logic many of the nutcases follow.

When it is all said and done I think it's fair to say that much more violence comes from the islamic extremists than from any other group. The article that started this thread is a good example of the logic many of the nutcases follow.


Under the view of the media...sure. When you look for something bad, you're going to find bad and when you look for something good, you're going to find good.

When it is all said and done I think it's fair to say that much more violence comes from the islamic extremists than from any other group. The article that started this thread is a good example of the logic many of the nutcases follow.


Again, let's not forget history.

You don't really need to look into history to point out the fallacy in his statement.

Take a look at whatever news sites and just search for murders, rapes and other acts of violence and you'll find that acts commited by Islamic Extremists are the minority.

A cursory look at the BBC sites gives me at least 10 counts of murder on the first two pages committed by non muslims.

A cursory look at the BBC sites gives me at least 10 counts of murder on the first two pages committed by non muslims.

That's because living in the UK drives you nuts. :evillol: We just take our guns to the range and go blow stuff up.