96 Pontiac Grand Am 3.1 SE AT, crank, no spark

I had to replace engine because cam bearings spun after shaft broke. Found a 95 Buick Regal 3.1 block and rebore the cam housings for oversized bearings. Crank bearing housings ok and replaced bearings. Needed new cam as well as crankshafts. Rehoned cylinders, replaced piston rings etc. Heads ok except usual reseating valves, replaced lifters, good push rods etc. No change measured in centerline between cam shaft and crankshaft.

Reinstalled engine without difficulty and had premarked all harness connectors, vac lines, motor mounts, gas lines and all accessories which fit exactly. Also took numerous digital pictures of engine prior to removal to insure proper reinstallation. Everything hooked up without anything extra dangling or ?where does this go?

Upon hooking up the battery, noted that the amber lights within the turn signal globe lights came on. Key was not in the cylinder. Any attempt to turn off these failed trying all the switches. All other lights functioned ok such as turn, hazards, headlights, but noted that the entire section of trouble lights or check engine lights not operational such as seatbelt, door ajar, ABS all not functioning. rest of instrument panel proper lit.

With start position the starter turns and cranks properly but we get no ignition. Tested for spark with light tester and non noted. Also no smell of gas after cranking. removed oil filter and noted that oil pumped to the filter ok.

Questions:
1. Can a faulty cam or crankshaft sensor be responsible for no spark? We used either the originals from the Pontiac or the better looking from the Regal, although both looked identical.

2. Can this difficulty be seconday to a stuck of faulty relay and if so which one?

3. Could this be due to a faulty ECM and if so where is it located? Can not find one on the schematics of Motor, Mitchells or Haynes. Could this be from retained codes in the ECM logged with the cam shaft breaking?

4. Why are these amber lights on. Also note that the rear window heater element stays on inspite of no key in the cylinder.

Have checked and rechecked all the connections. Find no frayed or torn wires. Best we can tell all structures are properly connected in installed.

Any help is appreciated. Can not afford the usual dealer run. We are 2 retired shade tree mechanics (to old to get out of the sun) and one very experienced engine rebuilder.

1- yes. though you should have used the Pontiac sensors not the buick.

2-maybe a bad FP relay :dunno: is the FP running when key is turn on ?

3- not sure if this would be the problem, anything that the break didnt wouldnt change the ECM settings or cause it not to get fuel or spark.

4- sounds like a short somewhere within that circuit. Are all the grounds and power wires/cables clean and tight ? Battery fully charged ?

Could also be some of the Buick sensors reeking havoc on the wiring.

Btw Have you tried checking for any trouble codes ?

Xeroinfinity:
1. Replaced the Regal crank sensor with the original Pontiac one..No spark.
2. Fuel pump is not running with key on.
3. No changes
4. Cleaned all grounds and power wire connections plus double checked all fuses for continunity and sanded down posts and covered with dielectric. No change.

I am going to pull the cam and crank sensors and have AutoZone check them out. How reliable are they in this regard? Still can't locate reason for the amberlight ?

I don't think autozone checks cam or crankshaft sensors, plus if you pull them out it is going to be even harder to test them. Cam sensor has no effect on your engine starting at all you can start engine without cam sensor. In maintenance section there is procedure how to check both of these sensors with DVOM.
what amber light you see exactly. ETS Off, ABS, Check Engine? Make sure you did not confuse some of the connectors that plug in at the ICM

Thanks 3100: The amber light I refer to is part of the either the turn signal complex or the fog lights. It may be part of the running lights because the rear is on also as is the passanger and driver side complex. It is part of a triple bulb (or double?) in the front fender, the most lateral (outside) of the light lenses.
This has nothing to do with the instrument panel but I did note that none of the trouble lights come on with the key in "on". No Check Engine, ABS, Seatbelt, etc. This light circuit is seperate from the turnsignal and hazard part of the bulb when I activate the proper switch.
When I state the engine "won't" start I mean it cranks but it gets no ignition or spark. I also don't hear the fuel pump operate with the key in "on".

AS to the wire connections, we disconnected only those connecting to the engine and ignition pack. If I am not mistaken, those will only connect to the exact configuration and shape of its mate, but as usual we could have screw up. Have rechecked several times, but no harm in rechecking till we find our mistake.

Thanks again, but any other "leads and suggestions" are more than needed and welcomed.

Ok, did your car have that relay installed to protect the ignition switch from melting (recall thing) the relay was supposed to be installed right above your radiator if you have that relay just make sure that wires are properly connected to where they should be.

Also when you connect your battery and you see all those lights on try to disconnect fuses one by one and see which fuse is now controlling all of them this could at least tell you where to start from and what circuit is mixt up. For example you disconnect HVAC fuse and all lights turn off you know that you have short to power somewhere in the HVAC circuit.

Not 100% sure of this but as i remember the "96" 3.1 was diffrent than the "95" and earlier 3.1. Something about ignition & fuel injection types. It was the first year for sfi ??? Vs efi.??? Wish i could be more help. Maybe this will jog some of the other poster's memory. My daughter had to replace her "96" 3.1 a few years back and we had to go thru this. The techs at gm straighted things out when they installed a low mile used engine. To me it sounds like an ignition sensor. But it may be an incorrect fi system. Or both.

Hope this helps not hinder

Lets try the security relearn procedure!

1) Attempt to start the car by turning the key to the Start/Run Position.
2) Observe that the vehicle fails to start and that the security light is illuminated.
3) Release key to the 'ON/Accessory' Position. (DO NOT turn key to the 'off' position.)
4) Allow the vehicle to sit with the key in the 'ON/Accessory' Position for no less than 11 minutes.
5) Turn key to off position and allow the vehicle to remain in the 'OFF' position for no less than 30 seconds.
6) Repeat #1 - #5 for 3 cycles.
7) On 4th attempt, car should start.

NOTE : Since this is a fairly long procedure, I would limit all electrical sources, such as disconnecting headlights, to prevent discharge of battery.

NOTE 2 : It is SAFE to wait LONGER than the allotted time, but it is not safe to wait less time. I.e. 12 minutes instead of 11 minutes should be safe; however, waiting 10 minutes instead of 11 minutes is not safe.

Properly executed, this procedure should take approximately 35 minutes to complete

Let me know if that fixes the fuel & spark.

Thanks Xeroinfinity: This Pontiac does not have a security system as far as I can tell. There is no "Chip" on the key but I will give it a try as you suggest. I'll not have a chance for a few days, lost a grandson a few days ago and will have funeral in next day.
Thanks Again..very much appreciated..I note many of your responses to other threads and admire your demeanor.

Xeroinfinity: Thank you again for your recommendations. I did follow your "security relearn procedure" explicitly but no start. However, in your step #2 you mention that the security light should be illuminated. Mine does not illuminate with the key in "on " position. Also note that none of the other "trouble" lights illuminate. the rest of the instrument panel does illuminate.

I was fortunate today to locate a 96 GM N platform service manual at my county library and found a rather detailed instruction for trouble shooting the security system, as it applies to a Pontiac GM. I also learned that the vehicle does have a security system identified as a PASSLOCK antithieft system. The PASSKEYII system is the one with the small chip or resistor on the key, which mine is not. I am going to go thru the step by step tomorrow, if we don't float out first up here in Toledo.

DeDeMau..

3100: Thank you for response. I pulled all fuses that indicated something to do with lights etc from both the dash fuse and the underhood boxes, but those parking lights remained on. The GM service manual gave a protocol to trouble shoot this but I haven't had a chance to try it.
TTYL

you did not understand me last time, I said that you should start disconnecting all the fuses one by one to see which fuse is associated with the problem it does not have to be fuse for lights. Just remove all the fuses one by one and when you disconnect the right fuse lights will turn off, then read what is that fuse for and we can start from there. You have fuses under the hood near your battery and inside when you open the driver's door on the side of the dashboard near your dimmer switch.

3100: Sorry I did not make myself clear, but I did remove individual fuses, one by one and I did find that the lights were the parking lights. Now let me furthur explain, when the battery is reattached, these lights go "On" regardless if the key is in the ignition or not. They will not respond to the switch at the steering column. I did find the relay for this cluster in front of the radiator and a disconnect of the relay or removal of its fuse will turn off the lights. All the other lights operate properly, such as fog, head and running lights. The GM service manual calls for "check for short in CKT 991", I will have to research out its location.
I still get crank, but still get no spark, even after detailed relearning for the ?security system.
Also the MLS cluster does not illuminate with the key in ignition, on or start position.
Any suggestions?

at the icm there should be a two wire connector with purple and yellow wires that is your 3x ckp sensor (main one) if it doesn't work you will not start.
so disconnect it and use your dvom set it to read lowest AC voltage. Tell someone to crank the engine several turns while you observe the voltage produced by the sensor it should be somewhere between 200mv and 500mv.

Try substituting that relay with another relay of the same type

Dear 3100, xeroinfinity and one and all that offered suggestions and advice.: solved my delimma today after hours of intensive library study with the GM sevice manual. I decided to back track my installation of the rebuilt engine by first redoing the wiring hook ups. As I started, I recalled when reinstalling the starter, I wasn't too sure about the wire hook ups. I sort of went by the peg size and the loops. I didn't disassemble the starter when we took the engine out to rebuild. You guessed it. I hooked a group (3) wires to the + post on the starter with the + from the battery and the inline fuse wire. These should have been hooked to the engine/tranny ground stud with the - battery cable. As soon as I correcte this and rehooked the battery, the park lights did not light up and with the key "on" the trouble lights were operational. The engine started on the first crank and hummed. I can't express the joy and happiness of my self and "friend".
Most of our problems can be solved with simple step logic...now if you will proceed to the Buick Park Ave forum and help the idiot of "Help, I just killed my friend's...

Glad you got it going ! :cheers:

4- sounds like a short somewhere within that circuit. Are all the grounds and power wires/cables clean and tight ? Battery fully charged ?


I did mention the wiring right from the start. lol

Oh and sorry that relearn realy wasnt correct.
That was for the 99+ , but theyre mostly the same for the 95+(obd 2) ponticas.

Ok, did your car have that relay installed to protect the ignition switch from melting (recall thing) the relay was supposed to be installed right above your radiator if you have that relay just make sure that wires are properly connected to where they should be.

Also when you connect your battery and you see all those lights on try to disconnect fuses one by one and see which fuse is now controlling all of them this could at least tell you where to start from and what circuit is mixt up. For example you disconnect HVAC fuse and all lights turn off you know that you have short to power somewhere in the HVAC circuit.

the relay that I mentioned above connects to your starter wiring : so I was also very close lol

the relay that I mentioned above connects to your starter wiring : so I was also very close lol
This is true!

I just mentioned wiring because over 90% of the time when installing a new/used engine, if it doesnt crank or start when it did before, its the wiring. :2cents:

I had the same problem with my 95 grand am and it ended up being the 3x crank sensor wiring was crossed with a transmission wire of same colors. After switching the wire it fired right up. The wire colors were purple and yellow. Try that first and good luck . You might also try getting your ignition module tested at your local parts store like oriellys.

Hey mbrown519 thanks for the tips.
I think dinkydaudoc has this solved, post #15, and is up and running.