93 sl1
radrodder04
08-06-2008, 09:39 PM
#2 plug had oil on it loss of power, replaced ects ran alot better, put non-fouler in and new plug drove 1 mile pulled plug, oil on plug up the threads, alot of oil, has had new head, I can see That the gaskets are brand new. RINGS?
VALVES, PCV, any sugestions??? PS I just aquired car in this condition, by the way it's only firing on 3 cylinders and if it sits and idles
over a couple of minutes it smokes like crazy for a minute after you start driving. (white smoke)
Thanks for any input
VALVES, PCV, any sugestions??? PS I just aquired car in this condition, by the way it's only firing on 3 cylinders and if it sits and idles
over a couple of minutes it smokes like crazy for a minute after you start driving. (white smoke)
Thanks for any input
RC1488
08-08-2008, 12:37 AM
Rephrase please. Its one gigantic sentence.
From piecing what you typed, It sounds as if the valve cover gasket is leaking. This would explain oil on the plugs. New valve cover gaskets can be bought at the dealer or auto store. Pre formed ones are easiest.
A MMO soak is inoder to help reduce the white smoke. Your oil rings are stuck letting oil into the combustion chamber. 2 or 3 MMO soaks may be needed.
Keep an eye on the oil level every week. Note how far you drive and how low the oil gets. As Wolfman puts it, "saturns dont die, people kill them"
:)
From piecing what you typed, It sounds as if the valve cover gasket is leaking. This would explain oil on the plugs. New valve cover gaskets can be bought at the dealer or auto store. Pre formed ones are easiest.
A MMO soak is inoder to help reduce the white smoke. Your oil rings are stuck letting oil into the combustion chamber. 2 or 3 MMO soaks may be needed.
Keep an eye on the oil level every week. Note how far you drive and how low the oil gets. As Wolfman puts it, "saturns dont die, people kill them"
:)
radrodder04
08-08-2008, 07:05 PM
thanks, sounds great, whats an MMO soak?
RC1488
08-08-2008, 09:27 PM
Murder Mystery Oil
Pour about a cap full down each cylinder well thru the spark plug hole over night. In the morning crank the engine to have any left over fluid shoot out into a rag placed over the plug holes. Put the plugs in and start her up. Youll prolly see any MMO residue burn off in the exhuast.
This will help loosen your oil rings. As i said, more than one session of this may be needed.
Pour about a cap full down each cylinder well thru the spark plug hole over night. In the morning crank the engine to have any left over fluid shoot out into a rag placed over the plug holes. Put the plugs in and start her up. Youll prolly see any MMO residue burn off in the exhuast.
This will help loosen your oil rings. As i said, more than one session of this may be needed.
radrodder04
08-08-2008, 09:38 PM
is murder mystery oil any thing like marvel mystery oil ?? I'll assume thats what you mean unless you let me know different. By the way I just want you to know how much I appreciate your patience and assistance just reading all the past threads i've learned quit a bit . I've owned 3 saturns this year and I've got to admit I'm getting more fond of them as time passes. thanks again tlc
Cat Fuzz
08-09-2008, 12:29 AM
Eh, yeah, it's Marvel Mystery Oil. Comes in a red bottle.
RC1488
08-09-2008, 06:20 AM
Thanks Cat Fuzz. I meant Marvel Mystery Oil haha. Oops.
And if your like me, youll like them so much you have 5 sitting in your driveway :D
And if your like me, youll like them so much you have 5 sitting in your driveway :D
denisond3
08-09-2008, 07:39 AM
Getting back to whatever your Saturn's fundamental problem may be: If its only firing on 3 cylinders, what do the 4 spark plugs look like when you pull/inspect them? The ones 'firing' should be light or very light tan at the bottom end (aside from any oil that runs down from inside the access tube - so you may need to rinse that oil off the plug in some gasoline). But what is the condition of the one not firing? Wet? Black? Dry? Light in color? .. or mangled? The oil leaking onto the plugs from inside the access tube isnt a serious problem, the engine can run that way about indefinitely: Its a nuisance though. Does the engine fire on 4 cylinders when driving, or does it still limp along on 3? I have tried non-fouling adapters as a diagnostic tool - when I was really desparate. In each case I still needed to (at least) pull the engine head to fix the issue.
You might want to invest in a compression tester, to check whether there is one bad cylinder, or two, or if they all have low compression.
In your situation I would probably figure on pulling the engine and rebuilding it - or do whatever I found was needed once I had opened it up.
On a Saturn I would prefer to pull the entire engine for inspection, rather than pulling just the head (because of the darn timing chain cover!) or just dropping the pan to check the bearings (because I prefer working standing by the workbench, not lying down amidst the ants). And I would figure on replacing the piston rings regardless how good everything else looked.
And to me, white smoke can mean coolant leaking into a combustion chamber - is the car losing any coolant?
RC1488. We have two SL2's in the driveway, both A/T, belonging to my adult daughters, and unless one needs repair/maintenance they OBJECT to their olde dad borrowing either one. Ingrates! So I want to get a manual tranny SL1 or SL2, in non-running condition (cheap). Im retired, so its a hobby activity.
P.S. I buy my Marvel Mystery Oil & WD-40 in gallon cans.
You might want to invest in a compression tester, to check whether there is one bad cylinder, or two, or if they all have low compression.
In your situation I would probably figure on pulling the engine and rebuilding it - or do whatever I found was needed once I had opened it up.
On a Saturn I would prefer to pull the entire engine for inspection, rather than pulling just the head (because of the darn timing chain cover!) or just dropping the pan to check the bearings (because I prefer working standing by the workbench, not lying down amidst the ants). And I would figure on replacing the piston rings regardless how good everything else looked.
And to me, white smoke can mean coolant leaking into a combustion chamber - is the car losing any coolant?
RC1488. We have two SL2's in the driveway, both A/T, belonging to my adult daughters, and unless one needs repair/maintenance they OBJECT to their olde dad borrowing either one. Ingrates! So I want to get a manual tranny SL1 or SL2, in non-running condition (cheap). Im retired, so its a hobby activity.
P.S. I buy my Marvel Mystery Oil & WD-40 in gallon cans.
radrodder04
08-09-2008, 11:09 AM
Ok! Let me clearify myself. I bought the car at auction when it came thru it was running a little rough, idle very rough and low RPM's. Under the hood looks new (great detailing) It obviously has recently had a head gasket, looks like a new head and a new valve cover gasket. The car is very sharp! 2 days later I went back to pick it up, When I started it it smoked like crazy for a minute or 2 then cleared up. So I drove it 8 to 10 miles home. It would barely run cutting of at stoplights because of idle so low. When i got it going and got the RPM's up it ran better but yes it felt like it was running on 3 cyls. I pulled the plugs at home 4,1,3 are light grey or tannish. #2 was black. !st I replaced the ects which made a BIG difference in the power. ( I forgot to mention I felt like the car was flooding out when I had it running) But idle still low a crescent wrench and a twist and the idle is up to 900rpm sounds better. with a new plug it ran ok for a few more miles. When I got home it still had a black plug Sooo I put a non-fouler in this didn't help at all as a matter of fact instead of the tip being black the plug was black up the threads. Which brings us to the moment I just put 2 caps of MMO in #2 covered it with a rag and in 8 hours or so I will see if it helps. As per RC1488's suggestion. P.S. the oil is coming from internal not gasket. If this (the MMO soak) or any other suggestions you guys help That would be great. Thanks for ALL the advice.
denisond3
08-09-2008, 06:54 PM
I would advise the MMO soak for all 4 cylinders. Usually if the car is using oil, the oil control rings on all 4 cylinders are about equally stuck. The one black plug you have could be several things -- but I doubt it could be caused by stuck oil control rings. I suppose it could be a leaky valve or a sticking lifter, or the compression rings arent doing their job - anything that would lower the compression a lot in that cylinder could result in a dark plug. Also an injector that was stuck open or not closing properly. Of course you can check for ignition at that plug by pulling the plug wire out and pushing a 'test' plug into it, letting it lie on the top of the motor. Its rare, but twice in my life I have had spark plugs that were shorted out - new ones. They looked okay, didnt show a short on my ohmmeter - but they would not fire.
When I took the pistons out of our 92 last summer, the compression rings were fine, but the oil control rings stayed at the bottom of the groove instead of expanding when I pulled the pistons up out of the cylinders. With those rings removed, it took lots of scraping to clean the crud from the grooves, all the way to the bottom.
When I took the pistons out of our 92 last summer, the compression rings were fine, but the oil control rings stayed at the bottom of the groove instead of expanding when I pulled the pistons up out of the cylinders. With those rings removed, it took lots of scraping to clean the crud from the grooves, all the way to the bottom.
RC1488
08-10-2008, 04:56 PM
Unfortunetly I should have been more precise in my directions. Pour MMO in all 4 cylinders :)
Since it is a new car to you, i would suggest a full tune up. Wires, plugs, fluids etc etc. I can post a tune up list if needed.
Also the screws onthe Throttle body should not be played with. The Idle Air Control valve is used for idle adjustems, and usually just needs to be cleaned for it to work properly. A cleaning of the TB can never hurt.
If the problem persits, i would swap the injectors around. If the apearence of the spark plug moves with the injectors, youve found your issue.
Year of the car? Miles on the car? VITALS PLEASE!!!
Since it is a new car to you, i would suggest a full tune up. Wires, plugs, fluids etc etc. I can post a tune up list if needed.
Also the screws onthe Throttle body should not be played with. The Idle Air Control valve is used for idle adjustems, and usually just needs to be cleaned for it to work properly. A cleaning of the TB can never hurt.
If the problem persits, i would swap the injectors around. If the apearence of the spark plug moves with the injectors, youve found your issue.
Year of the car? Miles on the car? VITALS PLEASE!!!
radrodder04
08-10-2008, 07:18 PM
it's a 93 sl1,1.9 ltr. does it even have injectors(this has been difficult for me I'm on 10 hours 7 days a week at work, my thinker ain't as clear as it should be) I don't remember seeing any. shows 123,000 "BUT" the speedometer,odometer and fuel guage (everything on left side of instrument panel don't work) It's not a fuse. I don't know what it is. I did notice one thing today I started it and turned the air on, wow you talk about draining the power but that took almost all the little car could do to stay running. I don't know if that is relevent or not! It does not smoke when you drive it.
radrodder04
08-10-2008, 07:32 PM
I just went outside and did the test plug thing great fire to test plug
RC1488
08-10-2008, 07:37 PM
Ahh a '93 SL1 has One injector. Thats it.
As i said before a new set of plugs and wires is where i would start. NGK Copper plugs are best. Duralst wires have worked fine for me especially since they are cheapp.
Wow you work quite alot! I thought i was working alot with about 10 hrs, 6 days a week. Then again, I lift refrigerators, freezers, stoves, and other appliances into peoples houses :) Good money tho! haha
As i said before a new set of plugs and wires is where i would start. NGK Copper plugs are best. Duralst wires have worked fine for me especially since they are cheapp.
Wow you work quite alot! I thought i was working alot with about 10 hrs, 6 days a week. Then again, I lift refrigerators, freezers, stoves, and other appliances into peoples houses :) Good money tho! haha
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