1980 KZ1300 Touring Gas in Oil Problem

Hi Everyone, I just picked up a 1980 KAW KZ1300 6cyl and the owner told me that he had did a oil change and started getting oil mixing in with the gas in the breather, A Bike shop told me that this is most likely do to over filling the oil, I just wanted to confirm this or get some other inputs on what could have caused this.

I drained the oil tonight and there was quit a bit of gas in the oil, this happended last year and the tank was off of it when i looked at it, I did not hear it run but he claimed he took it to a bike shop and had the carbs cleaned and was driving it home afterwords when it started running like crap, so he trailored it home, he said it started right up again but after it ran a while would start loading up. Any Ideas or suggestions on this one?

Thanks In Advance

Over filling the oil can cause the problem. At the next change, accuratly measure the oil going in to avoid overfilling. If necessary, run it only half way up on the dipstick, not to the full mark.

As for fuel contaminating the oil...... an over rich mixture and/or making many short trips (where the oil never fully warms up) can cause this problem.

BTW, love those 6 cyl bikes!!

Normally, gas in the oil indicates a carb issue. Since this happened after he had carb work done, I would suspect that one or more of the carbs have stuck floats/ needle and seats or were knocked out of adjustment when cleaned causing excessive amounts of fuel to get in the engine. That is why it was running like crap, it was flooding.

OK I will Check the carbs maybe pull them off and check the needles, seats, and Floats, I put new oil in it this morning 20w-50 and this bike has a site glass not a dip stick, so I was carefull to make sure it was only half way in the site glass although it is really dirty and hard to tell without getting a bright lite on it and carfully monitoring it. It took about 4 quarts of oil.

Funny thing now I was going to try and fire it up this morning and could not get any ignition power, had it yesterday afternoon, Flashers work and radiator fan, got power there but nothing on the ignition key, no engine light, headlights, starter. The only thing I did was remove the cover for what looks like a oil sensor in the bottom of the engine, I wonder if I may have broke that wire or lost connection there if that would cause that problem?. Don't know where the fuse is for the ignition and starter yet will have to do some research on it and check the actual key switch itself. Anyone have any suggestion or ideas on that?

I don't know if those had oil pressure shutdown, but yes some engines will run the ignition feed through the oil pressure switch so it won't fire the ignition unless there is at least minimal oil pressure present (like when cranking the engine)

Could also be a gear position sensor, which works in concert with the sidestand kill switch, if you try to take off in gear with the stand down, the igntiion cuts off...a broken wire to either can disable the ignition.

That's why it's always a good idea to have a few paperclips and electrical tape on you when riding an old bike...comes in handy for bypassing bad safety interlocks, etc...

I don't know if those had oil pressure shutdown, but yes some engines will run the ignition feed through the oil pressure switch so it won't fire the ignition unless there is at least minimal oil pressure present (like when cranking the engine)

Could also be a gear position sensor, which works in concert with the sidestand kill switch, if you try to take off in gear with the stand down, the igntiion cuts off...a broken wire to either can disable the ignition.

That's why it's always a good idea to have a few paperclips and electrical tape on you when riding an old bike...comes in handy for bypassing bad safety interlocks, etc...

Any Idea if and where the ignition fuse is, I checked the fuses under the seat and they appear to be for the lights and such, There is 1 main 30a fuse does that control the ignition and others?

Thanks

Normally, gas in the oil indicates a carb issue. Since this happened after he had carb work done, I would suspect that one or more of the carbs have stuck floats/ needle and seats or were knocked out of adjustment when cleaned causing excessive amounts of fuel to get in the engine. That is why it was running like crap, it was flooding.
I thought of this as well, but most Japanese bikes with this carb configuration (inline engine with side draft carbs) have overflow tubes, so an overfill situation will dump gas directly on the ground.
However, with older bikes it seems anything is possible so it's worth checking out.



One other thing comes to mind.............. as this is a watercooled bike, does the thermostat work properly? If its stuck open and the bike is running too cool, poor running and oil contamination can result.

Found this on the Z1300 page...


http://www.kz1300.com/techarticles/


ZN1300 Voyager ignition system wiring. The Voyager won't start if the side-stand is not up, the bike is in neutral, kill switch is off and the clutch is pulled in. Bad diodes can also do the same thing. They're in the Junction box along with the fuses and relays. You still have the potential of a bad starter button, bad ignition switch or starter solenoid if you have a no start condition. Happy hunting!

http://www.kz1300.com/techarticles/zn1300-ignition-system-wirings.jpg

This is for the ZN...not sure which you got. Too long ago...can't remember which model was which.

This is a 1980 KZ1 Model according to the title. Still no luck after trying the kick stand, clutch, kill switch, nuterual, Etc: Did find the plug from the fuse box to the igniter and rest of the electronics was loose and not making connection under the seat, cleaned it up and reconnected it but still nothing but flashers and manual fan control for the fan works. There has to be a main fuse somewhere stoping power to the ignition. Any more ideas.

I wonder if there is suppose to be a ground wire hooked to the neg post of the battery? Becuase there is none on mine and I don't see a loose wire or anything for 1.

Check the battery connections if you haven't already, see that any pigtails coming from the ignition switch are plugged in well. A lot of the primary wiring is probably inside the headlight bucket, might wanna have a look in there too.

Work back through whatever you did before the ignition power got lost. You changed the oil...did you follow that sensor wiring you talked about?

I did check the sensor connector and tighten it, I may need to trace it and do a Cont. Test. I have been checking connectors and moving wires and looking for wires. I did check the harness going to the ignition and I have 1 12v going to the ignition just don't know yet if there should be more than 1 or what the 12 volt supplys. I just have the wiring diagram to the 83 voyager and not the Touring model so not really sure whats accurate. There probalbly close with a few extra acessories. Meanwhile I am waiting for the Ape Cam Chain Tesnioner to come in and going to pull the carbs to clean them but looks like I going to have to get a special 90* philips to get them off. Got to clean the tank is really got a lot of rust in it, Going to try that Pour 15 or what ever it is. Going to be a week or 2 before I can fire it. Hope I can figure out that electrical problem before than, If not I'm going to trailor it to a Pro. Really Hoped to get it going in a week but don't think tahts is going to happen.

Thanks

You guys are not going to beleave this, This was really a retarded problem. Thanks to dave at KZ1300.com I emailed him and an hour later he called me. He knew exactly what was wrong.
Turns out that this bike has the keyswitch to open the seat and it has to be turned back into the middle position to get the voltage back to the key switch. Nothing wrong with the wiring at all. So I guess I just have to wait for the cam chain tensioner to come in, Pull the carbs and clean them and I Have already checked the coils which are in good shape, no cracks or any noticable flaws anywhere. But Still Going to Order The Nology Coils after I test run it just to make sure dont get that vapor or vacum lock dave talks about on his tech site from excess fuel in cylinders. Turns out you always want to turn your pitcock off about a 1/4 mile before your stop to prevent this. I'll get back with you guys and let you know the results of my test run. Hope its not to late to make this a good runner. See ya in a few.

Thanks
Tom
Doc's Computers

Just a upadate on the status of the KZ1300, Got it running but it is not running good, Have a little backfiring going on, Gets better as it warms up and have to kinda choke it a little to give it gas, It will idle alright after it warms up a little, so I am trying to figure out what is causeing this, May be carb adjustment or gas feed issues I have currently pulled the bowls of the carbs and they looked pretty good not a bunch of settemant or varnish in them, So I Cleaned them with carb cleaner and blowed them out with air. Checked the needles, seats and floats and leveled them, I drained and Creamed the Tank because of a lot of rust in the tank. From what I understand these have fuel line issues and do not get enough gas, So I am putting new fuel line and car fuel filter in line and routing the line to flow down into the carbs instead of up. Now I think that there may be a fuel or air flow issue and going to try to get some help on adjusting the carbs. and have someone look at the timing. And now after trying to put it in gear and take it for a spin I have no clutch drive. Does not engage into gear. The shifter works fine will run thru the gears and when I put it in gear I can here or feel something rolling or grabbing. So that is another problem I am going to have to figure out. Does anyone have any suggestions. Thanks, Tom

Backfire/stumble and wanting the choke longer than it should that gets better as it warms up is a sign of being overly lean...most common cause on older bikes is small cracks in carb to engine boots/flanges....spraying them with starting fluid or WD-40 while running will show where the problem is if the motor reacts to it.

When you said "leveled them" what did you mean? Float drop has to be set to very specific specs...

Far as the clutch...there has to be a small amount of free play in the clutch lever, if the cable is overadjusted it'll make it slip...I don't know why it would be but it's worth a look...there's a screw and thumbwheel lock on the lever end of the cable, loosen the thumbwheel and screw the cable end in/out to get a slight freeplay in the lever if it doesn't have any...then try it and fine tune as needed if that's the problem.

Otherwise the clutch is spent, I guess. The plates can get stuck from sitting but they get stuck engaged, not disengaged...make sure the amount of movement in the pivot crank on the case matched what the lever is doing, just in case it's a frayed and stuck cable or something...

When I checked the floats 2 of them were just a tad bit under level letting to much gas into bowls I would guess, I mean just barely, So I leveled them by eye, The needles have little spring loaded push pins inside of them so I adjusted the floats just a little to where the just start pushing up on the spring loaded push pins of the needles. I would assume that would be right. Thats the way every carb I have ever rebuilt works. I'll try the carb cleaner or wd-40 trick you talked about. I didn't notice really any play in the clutch lever. I did strap it open when I first tried starting it so as not to have to pull the clutch lever all the time. And when I put it in gear I do hear the gears rolling but nothing going to the drive shaft at all no restriction from the drive train. So I'll try playing with the clutch adjustment a bit. Thanks, any other advise would be appreciated.

Tom