brake squeaks

Hello. I just became a member of this forum and need some help with my 96 corolla, DX. The brakes in the rear (drum brakes) have been squeaking for a few months but only when I press the brake pedal. The pedal goes about halfway down. I replaced the front rotors a few months back but not the pads as they were still good. Only the rear brakes squeak. What should I do now. I do most of the work on our car myself. Thanks very much for all the great help here which has helped me save a lot of trouble and money for the past couple of years. Now I hope to ask some questions of my own which I can't seem to locate in the forum anywhere. Are drum brakes pretty much standard on all cars? I did help to replace the ones on my Chevy I had 30 years ago. I've never done them on a toyota. We've had our corolla for eight years but I never checked the rear brakes.

Welcome!

If the brakes only squeak when you start driving in the morning, such as backing out of the yard and driving a couple of blocks then it could be just moisture buildup / minor rusting of the metal in the pads overnight.

If they squeak all the time it probably means the shoes are near worn out. If you don't check it out soon you'll likely be replacing the drums too. I would do that anyway after 8 years.

Drum brakes really haven't changed much. If you pull the drums off you'll see almost the same setup you saw 30 years ago.

Replacing the rear shoes is a good straightforward DIY project. See the link below.

http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/16/c1/1d/0900823d8016c11d/repairInfoPages.htm

The only bits of advice I have are;

- Don't buy the cheapest brake shoes. You'll end up with black brake dust everywhere and they'll wear out in no time.
- Use the bolts / boltholes to press the drums off if they don't come off easy.
- Take apart only one side at a time so you can see how to put them back together properly.

Thanks for the answer! Sorry it took me a few days to get back to you but I already purchased the shoes and they were the cheapest ones, too (the auto parts store said they were the only ones is stock --- $25. ??). I'll have to return them and get the ones from the dealer parts store instead I guess which are almost double in price. I haven't had a chance to look at the brakes yet but, like you say, it could be rust as I wash my car every week which includes the wheels and tires.
Also, should I change the pads along with the shoes or just change what's needed? And does the bleeding have to be done every time the pads/shoes are replaced?
Thanks again!

You could try a different auto parts store rather than the dealer. There are usually 2 or 3 grades of aftermarket brake shoes available.

When you ask if you should change the pads too, I'm assuming you mean the front brake pads. They have a wear indicator that will start squealing when it's time to replace the pads.

As a matter of course, I inspect all the underbody steering and drivetrain components spring and fall when I do the wheel changeover from summer to winter including looking at the pads. That way I can judge more or less when to have to replace them, say, in advance of taking a long trip.

Bleeding doesn't have to be done every time as long as the pedal doesn't feel spongy. Properly adjusting the rear brakes when you install the new shoes should bring the pedal up a little and give the brakes a firmer feel.

OK, I changed my brake shoes and had the drums turned. the little C-clips were the most difficult thing to remorve and put bake together. The auto parts store where I did the repair did not have any new clips so I just used the old ones even though they appeared a bit worn. The auto parts also said it would be the last time the drums would be turned so I'll have to replace them next time. I screwed the adjuster wheel all the way down to the last thread. I also bled the system begining with the farthest wheel to the closest to the master cylinder but the brake pedal position never changed.

After I got everything back together, the brakes are not squeaking anymore but they go almost to the floor and there is a sound of a kind of whirring noise when I come to a stop. ? The parking brake is also very loose and just can't be used unless I adjust it somehow.

Anyone have any ideas how I can get out of this mess will greatly be appreciated.

Umm - when you say you screwed the adjuster wheel all the way down to the last thread, that means the brake shoes will be moved in away from the drums and there will be a big gap to take up, which shows up as the pedal movement. The shoes have to be naturally resting firmly close to the drums for everything to work right. To initially adjust them you have to screw the adjuster screws out until it is slightly difficult to slip the drum over the shoes. In fact when you rotate the drums there should be a slight friction from the shoes rubbing a little bit. Make sure both drums are on and press the brake pedal down a few times to make sure they are seated properly. Slip the drums off and do a little more fine adjustment. Your pedal should come up and your e-brake should work. After that, the rear brakes get automatically adjusted each time you fully engage the emergency brake.

oops maybe I misunderstood you. When you say last thread, if you moved the adjusters out as far as you could and things things still aren't right, then the only thing I can think of is that something is not put back together right.

Thanks much cheesep, you were right the first time. I adjusted to the last thread thinking I couldn't get the drums back on with the new shoes. Well, like you say, there's way too much space between the drums and the shoes.

I just got done going through the whole process I did yesterday before receiving your reply; the only thing I did differently was to adjust the parking brake under the console and bleed the system - left/rear, right/rear, left/front, right/front which is the supposedly the proper way for corollas which I found in an old readers digest auto repair book. But no change at all. So, I readjusted the park brake back to where it was before I messed with it.

Now, I have a few more hours of daylight left so I'll try what you just suggested and see if things change.

Alright! Everything is working great now. I removed the drums and tightened the star wheel just a few clicks is all that was needed and I got good pedal and parking brake performance.

The inside parts (springs, c-clips, wheel cylinders, etc.) may all need replaced the next time around though as they appear to be original parts from 96.

Thanks again!

Glad we could help. . .

Yeah, next time I would replace the springs/clips etc. You can get a kit that has all that stuff. I would leave the wheel cylinders alone though unless they are leaking or sticking or something. You'll have to replace your drums next go around too.

One detail I forgot to mention. The old brake shoes on both wheels were only worn on one end (on one end of each of the 2 shoes on both wheels if you know what I mean) while the other end was hardly worn at all. Does this mean anything or is it normal for them to wear this way? I got so involved in solving the main problem at hand that I forgot about this. I already threw the old shoes away.

That's been my experience too, that one end the shoes wear first. I googled this quickly and there is a lot of science about the geometry and interaction between the shoes and drum including curvature, friction, heat, etc. I did find this comment.

"For maximum braking efficiency after the drums have been resurfaced, the arc of the shoes must match the drums. This means that the linings must be ground to match the curvature of the drum when it is resurfaced. There should be a small clearance between the ends of the lining and the drum. The shoes should rock slightly when moved in the drum. If the center of the linings is not touching the drum, the linings should be arced (ground). Shops equipped with a commercial brake lathe have a special attachment to perform this task. If no attachment is available, the shoes can be installed but the brakes will not become fully effective until the linings wear enough to match the braking surface of the drum. Frequent adjustments will be needed until they wear sufficiently".

Maybe the manufacturers build in a little "wear-in" rather than just having the centre of the shoes make contact. I don't know, just speculating. I do know, however, from first hand experience with bicycle caliper brakes that you have to adjust them with a toe-in so that the leading edge of the pad contacts first. If the whole pad contacts at once, or worse, if the rear contacts first, you'll get groaning, squealing, chattering and anything but smooth brake performance. Just my 2 cents, I don't know if this knowledge is transferrable to automotive brakes . . .

You should google it to find out more about the geometrics and people's experience.

Thanks for all the info.