99 windstar Shifting 4th problem TCC Help

Picking Brains...

99 wind 3.8l AX4S April 99 birthday

The O/D light Flashes only a very slow accel speeds when it tryes to shift into 4th or TCC lockup right around 40mph like a clock too. It takes 5 tries to set the lamp 5shifts into 4th. It will shift into O/D tho but before it does the rpm goes up a hair, and it shifts into O/D which will set the lamp.

This wont happen when cold, or acceling harder like around 3000 rpms. No slipping in any gears. Pulls every gear like it should and strong shifts. Its only when your hardly on the gas pedal acceling.
Highway driving 63mph and over will set a flashing O/D but after say 5miles and only when hot. Cold no Light.

Once the O/D light starts flashing, the TCC or 4th gear locks up and shifts like a clock!

Services, Trans Service with filter
drove 300 miles
Sucked out Trans fluid again, refilled again.


Replaced TRS trans Range sensor

for the Heck of it I Checked all connectors
TTS temp sensor connectors
VSS connectors
Top white Connector looks good also.

So I dont know..

101600 ish No slipping, shifts all others fine and sometimes TCC shifts perfect even with the O/D Light Flashing or Off...

No Engine Codes very clean running.

Im thinking its Temp or pressure control valve.. 80 buckish and a pain in the ass to get too. Same for the O/D valve dont wanna guess tho.

I changed every sensor, valve and regulator I could get my hands on when my tranny had symptoms similar to yours ... rebuilt servos .... spent $200 or more. No real success ... maybe it took a little longer for the slipping to begin, not sure.

Finally changed out the tranny with Ford reman .... been 10kmiles with no problems so far ....

(BTW, I kept the old parts and put them back in "tranny core" that was returned to Ford)

Oh, when I opened up the pan, it wasnt bad. No metal chips on magnet some clutch wear but it all looked normal wear. Ive done many trans services on many cars in my lifetime, and nothing stuck out like a sore thumb except tryin to get the Filter gasket off the inlet. Retired Mast ASE tech.

I was expecting a horror show when pulling the pan, but it wasnt that bad.

My family needs the van because of my Wheelchair, Not easy getting a wheelchair into a Scion XB with two kids and the wife.

If it comes to a reman trans, it will be getting one once this one stops moving on us. Just have to save some green...

Maybe someone out ther had this happen and it was a pressure sensor or such.. HOPING!!

If the O/D light was flashing, there should be a transmission code set......I think it would be a "C" code.
I would get the transmission codes read.
Would have been nice if it gave you a OBDII "P" code that you can read with the OBDII reader, but it does not seem to be working out that way.
This may take some of the guess work out of the situation.
You might get luckey and have an easy solution......that you can solve....maybe at worse a TCC solenoid that you can get at from outside the case, or.....from what you mention....a Torque Converter Clutch issue that you have to tear into the unit to the point that labor makes it a better option to get a FORD remanufactured unit.
The "C" code will hopefully let you know if it is a DIY job, or a teardown.

Yea I have a Scanner and no codes at all. OBD and OBD2 scanner and updated to the latest firmware. Dont know, I just know its within the TCC circuit or TCC Hydro within the valve body. Ive read that the TCC Spool wears but Im not that far along yet.. Pulling the valve body out isnt fun.

A transmission shop, dealer, etc will have the reader that can read the "C" codes......as you are a mechanic, you know this....but I throw it in for other readers....., get the actual numeric code from them..... Cxxxx for a "C" code.....
That is of more use than a description.

Paying someone to use their proprietary code reader to pull the "C" codes is better than guessing wrong a time or so.

I read a post on a FORD forum about what you are talking about....and the tech was telling the poster that by the time you pay the labor to get to, and replace that worn part.......you have enough invested that you are getting to 1/2 the cost of a remanufactured unit......and the rest of the unit has all the wear and tear on it.....and it would be a shame to turn around and have another failure......where with a FORD remanufactured unit, all the updates have been done, you have new wear items installed and a 3 year / 75K mile warranty on the unit......not just a 30 day 3K mile on 1 part inside.

Again, I am sure that you know this better than I do.....but others hopefully will benefit from my ranting.

I went through the process back in 2001......$2800 (unit and labor) for a FORD remanufactured unit for my '96 3.8L.....at just under 100K miles.
I did a LOT of reading on the internet first.....and read too many posts of people getting a aftermarket unit for 1/2 the price.......and facing another replacement just after the 12 month warranty was up.
I did not find any posts, at the time, talking of any issues with the FORD unit.
I now have very close to 100K miles on my FORD remanufactured unit.......so I feel good about the pain that I took (and it DID hurt) with that repair bill in 2001.....

My vehicle has given me good service for the money that I have spent.
Most of my co-workers have gone through at least 2 vehicles since I bought mine 2nd hand in 1999.....so a $$$$ for use comparison comes out in my favor.....although I come up short in the "status ride" catagory.

I am sure that there are aftermarket units that are good....possibly better than the FORD unit.....but I am sure that they will not be 1/2 the price.
I have seen Jasper spoken well of to name one aftermarket brand.

I also installed a auxillary transmission cooler, and went to yearly (about 20K or so) fluid changes with synthetic fluid.

Yep, Im planning on takin it to my friend whos done toyota autos in the past with great luck 6yrs later they are still shifting with 350k on them. I will get it there soon enough. I also have alldata, but who has a breakout box .. lol

The reman will be from ford also since its a ford build that has gotten 100k on it so far, so I expect another 100k with another ford trans.

I know it will need it soon enough.. Ive done many remans of dodge minivans and its really not hard to do. But you invest in the tools to install a sprag or such just for a single trans may not be worth the tool or tools cost.

Yea, I need to know the codes soon just to ease my mind. Thank goodness we dont use the van everyday. Maybe a few times a month. No long hauls or over 20miles etc. Only use it when I get out which isnt alot..

New find..

If you turn off the O/d with the button on the shifter, It shuts it off.

OK, if Im running down the highway at 63mph or more in 3rd gear, the O/D light still will come on and flash? If its driven below 63mph no O/D flashing.

63mph is from my scanner, the Speedo Reading is 67mph. Is 4mph enough to throw of an incorrect Gear Ratio?

Also, does the TC lockup up in 3rd gear too? Some trans do 3 and 4 locks up the TC

3rd gear would be TC and One Solenoid
4th gear would be TC and two Solenoids

Some only Lock in 4th which is common in GMs Yea, Im a GM toyota guy...

Torque converter clutch test.
With engine and transaxle fully warmed up......constant speed of about 50mph, on relatively level road, (not using cruise control).
With right foot still on accellerator, tap the brake pedal with the left foot.
When the brake pedal is tapped, the engine RPM should increase....and the RPM should decrease again after the brake pedal is released.
(from Alldata)

They have a wealth of information on the Automatic Tranaxle....but I did not see a listing of the "certain Conditions" that the PCM will command the torque converter clutch to engage or disengage.

There is a LONG list of possible causes for the TCC to malfunction.
There are OBDII "P" codes for TCC problems.....but it seems that they are not set in your case.
However, the flashing O/D light is a "Check Engine" light for the transmission, and there should be a code or codes stored......
I do not know if a generic code reader will catch all the "P" codes......but the "P" code set seems to cover the transmission.
I looked up transmission codes......and they are the "P" codes that I already have listed in the sticky post.

I am not a mechanic......so I do not have the knowlege and experience that you do.....

I read about a 1.5 to 2.0 mph difference between my speedometer and the "Scantool" readout at the OBDII port.
With the speedometer reading higher.
This is not uncommon.
At what point would it cause a problem.....?
Well....for a short while....my speedometer would intermittently give me a reading that was way off.....and sometimes would swing from 30mph to 75mph.....back and forth.....and I had no drivability problems.
I would guess that the value that I read with the Scangauge at the OBDII port is the one that is the critical value for engine / transmission control.
If that one goes bad.....you will have OBDII codes stored....and drivability issues.
There are 2 sensors.....a mechanical cable that connects to the speedometer....and a electrical pickup.....that sends a signal to the PCM....I believe that they are at the same location.....where the speedometer cable enters the transaxle.....middle, back of the transaxle (not to be confused with the Turbine Speed Sensor, TSS, that reads the shaft speed out of the torque converter......which is located on the left side cover of the tranxaxle).

I DO highly recommend the AlldataDIY subscription..
The subscription only gives one access to the manual for their vehicle.....so mine is for the 1996......which the manuals seem to lump in with 1995-1998 (although there are differences from year to year......with a lot of changes between 1995 and 1996).
1999 was a "major change" year.....so a subscription for that year would be more appropriate.

brake test does unlock the tc that one of the first easy tests to even try.
I have alldata and my scanner still has no codes. Its goin to a shop with a ford trans tester next week since they are busy. Just find it odd that under 63mph no light.

Anything Bumper to bumper is a DIY Job. Theres nothing on a car that NASA needs fixing. Everything can be done with a little research, specs, and The right tools. So when It comes to trans They dont scare me to rip into one. Yea, I need alot of help getting it out lol but I have some friends willing to help. Remember these are Man made machines.... Not mystery boxes with wheels..

I dont think the VSS has a cable in our van. Its just wiring out the back of the trans. The only cables are Throttle, Throttle cruise and Shifter linkage cable. I guess the older 99s do have cables, and the newer ones dont. So if it dont, the speedo would get the speed reading from the PCM, PCM from the VSS. Ours speedo stuck on us once, but that was months ago. Beat on the dash once, and it went to 0 LOL.. "FORD" Say out loud in car after beating dash! hehe....

Yea if the speedo is getting signal from the PCM I would think it would be much closer to 1mph difference... Unless our speedo is just that far off.. It seems like the faster you go, the worse off the speedo gets.

I even looked at the tire sizes, just to be sure it did have the right sizes

I drove it last night again, Hard RPMs 1st to 3500 2 to 3500 3 to welll lets says it was over the speed limit by a few mph but it shifted in 3rd quick and 4th quick.. But after came to a stop, and cruised up to speed again all gear shifts at 2000rpm. The trans shifted perfectly into 4th. So I dont get it.. I feel like beating on the PCM LOL Make up your mind!! I wish it would just SLIP at least I know it needs a trans HEHE.. My friend already knows its coming in and he wants to drive it too. He thinks its electronic since around here these vans get 150k everything is FLAT no hills and maybe 20 days of 90 degree weather a year.

No Flashing O/d light..
Yesterday - Flushed "Sucker tool" the Trans "Mercon V" again 4 new quarts I have like 3 gallons of mercon v that I need to get rid of..

I dont know why theres no P codes in my scanner either. If the light does pop on while wife is driving I can reset the light while moving with the scanner. And it turns it off. Its a Monitoring and Recordable obd2 scanner I know it has those trans codes if you search the codes.

Oh I wanted to add this
Just before the light flashes, it upshifts like its confused to 3rd then the light, then shifts into 4th. but only does it once, like a bimp in speed or TPS signal. But only when hot say 10miles or more to get the trans fluid hot. I did a coolant service just to be sure.. Back flushed everything I could. Even if you drove it 20miles, the under hood temp is still low. You can touch just about anything and its cool. Just to be sure the radiator isnt full of bugs and dirt I blew it out with air and some water. Air flow is good thru the radiator. One thing I dont have is a temp pointer gun just to see what the trans temp is. Someone needed it more then I did..

Also we have about 1000miles on it since the light started.

Who knows what these are called? Everyone has different names..

The VSS is the sensor behide the engine on top of the trans near the exhaust. At Least thats what Im thinking.

The TSS or Turbine Speed sensor is the one on the drivers side fender right next the the axle or CV joint?

Alldata calls the TSS a Output shaft sensor, but sometimes calls it the VSS too in some diag areas so Im not sure which is what and what ford really calls each sensor.

Output Speed sensor is just that, its right next to the output cv joint so that would make more sense right.. If anyone knows the Ford names do tell.

Was looking for the Left side OUTPUT sensor online at autozone etc. and none show anything but the VSS. Turbine or Output arnt even listed. I know it has two cause I had one out today to test it. "Turned the Wheel all the way left to get to this sensor.
The ohms are no good but the sensor did increase AC volts. So anyway I cleaned it and reinstalled it. Hoping alldata is correct with the OHMs value.

AllData is using some of the older model diags for the newer electronic speedo I guess. Some pages show TSS some only the OSS.

It should be a VSS and a OSS and thats it. TSS i think is older models..

OSS, when I dove into the "pinpoint tests" is the same as TSS.....and they say that it is OSS on some vehicles and TSS on others.
I really don't like the OSS as output shaft make me think "shaft coming out of the transmission", but they are using the term as Output shaft from the torque converter.......which to me.....would be "intermediate shaft".
If this is confusing to you.....a experienced mechanic......think of what it does to the rest of us.......trying to learn from outside the field.

It is really good to have people on this forum that have the knowledge and experience that can really help the rest of us out.

OSS, when I dove into the "pinpoint tests" is the same as TSS.....and they say that it is OSS on some vehicles and TSS on others.
I really don't like the OSS as output shaft make me think "shaft coming out of the transmission", but they are using the term as Output shaft from the torque converter.......which to me.....would be "intermediate shaft".
If this is confusing to you.....a experienced mechanic......think of what it does to the rest of us.......trying to learn from outside the field.

It is really good to have people on this forum that have the knowledge and experience that can really help the rest of us out.
LOL your not kiddin, 18 yrs in the field..
Oss Tss its one of them.. Torque converter sensor isnt near the TC thats for sure.. So OSS is the term 99 electronic speedos.. TSS Speedo is cabled from the VSS. Thanks.. Alldata has them pulling diags from a few model years so one term its OSS another term its TSS..

Drove today 70 miles 35 to 35 from back home. Again under 63 No O/d light all 35 miles.. Probley gonna go get a OSS tomorrow. 24 miles were on a highway..

Just found this INFORMATION!!

The MPH Range cant not be more the 3MPH off.. Mine is 4mph..

I have to get a "Sensor/Pickup The left Drivers side one next to the CV Joint" LOL Cause its OHMs isnt high enough to pass. Once Its replaced Ill scan the MPH again and see what the new speed is.

Who knows it may need both the VSS behide the Trans near exhaust under Shield. OSS I think Left side CV Joint.. The parts guy at ford was like a ABS sensor lol NO its on the trans an inch away from the CV shaft.. He has been at ford for 25yrs..

Good luck to you.

I replaced both the sensors you mentioned ... the VSS on top, under a shield, on the RH shaft tube ... the OSS near the LH shaft ...and various sensors under the end cover. All to no avail: other than I was giving money to my Ford dealer. Of course, there was over 200k miles on the tranny, I should have known better ... but I just did not want to face the task of changing out the tranny. But after nothing seemed to help the tranny, I bit the bullet and did the tranny swap-out with a Ford Reman unit. Haven't been sorry a bit. (Well, OK ... my wallet still hurts a bit). I put the original sensors back on the old "core" tranny before turning it back to Ford. So now I have about $200 worth of tranny sensors stored in a plastic zip-loc bag.

I have already put about 12k miles on the reman tranny and the (my repair) reman engine. All seems OK so far (Rap, Rap, Knock on wood!).

Good luck to you.

I replaced both the sensors you mentioned ... the VSS on top, under a shield, on the RH shaft tube ... the OSS near the LH shaft ...and various sensors under the end cover. All to no avail: other than I was giving money to my Ford dealer. Of course, there was over 200k miles on the tranny, I should have known better ... but I just did not want to face the task of changing out the tranny. But after nothing seemed to help the tranny, I bit the bullet and did the tranny swap-out with a Ford Reman unit. Haven't been sorry a bit. (Well, OK ... my wallet still hurts a bit). I put the original sensors back on the old "core" tranny before turning it back to Ford. So now I have about $200 worth of tranny sensors stored in a plastic zip-loc bag.

I have already put about 12k miles on the reman tranny and the (my repair) reman engine. All seems OK so far (Rap, Rap, Knock on wood!).
The thing is Im still waiting for a slip even with the pedal down.. zzzzzz and its be shifting into 4th but once in while it acts up. 1100 miles so far.. Ill know this week some time with the codes. Like the more I drive it, the better it is.. I know that Ohms valve is wrong on the one sensor tho. 102k ish

It will smoke the tread off the tire.. Just wanted to see if a 1mph roll and punchin it would slip or shudder something. It pushed me in the seat.. we baby it so much, I forgot how much power that engine has lol..

I am NOT big at all on additives for the tranny fluid.
However, I did add this once....and it did seem to make the shifts a bit more crisp.....
The theory behind this recommendation is the posibility that some dirt builds up around a couple of those solenoids.......and this would be great at cleaning that out....without getting carried away with your seals...etc.

http://www.auto-rx.com/

I just dumped almost a bottle into the tranny about 2k before I did a fluid flush.

I am NOT big at all on additives for the tranny fluid.
However, I did add this once....and it did seem to make the shifts a bit more crisp.....
The theory behind this recommendation is the posibility that some dirt builds up around a couple of those solenoids.......and this would be great at cleaning that out....without getting carried away with your seals...etc.

http://www.auto-rx.com/

I just dumped almost a bottle into the tranny about 2k before I did a fluid flush.

I kinda wanna take off the PCM connector just to see the pins.. That old TBS water getting into the PCM connector under the hood.. I dont know if it was repaired by the dealer with the foam that long ago...

today ther was a mustang up my ass, and as I turned the corner I punched it 2nd gear up to 5000rpm Looked out the mirror and Saw My Cats get cleaned out lol Anyway, it shifted to 3rd at 3000rpm and still was climbing. I was gettin scared so I backed off. Too fast for me... But the trans just hung in there.. Dont recall every pulling 5k rpms

Still no codes.. zzz Shops busy.. Gonna call today and see if he can fit it in.

Anyway, yesterday I tapped into the Top trans connector and connected up my meter. Temp sensor 57.7k ohms Perfect cold. moved on to TCC lockup wire. And it locks at 3rd gear. 3rd gear is 1 over 1 and 4th is .7 over 1 ratio. Voltages looked good no loss of power to them. The Pressure control is good too. I tried to get the solenoid wire for 3rd and couldnt get a signal. And it starting raining.. So packed it up..

Checked them while driving with jumper wires into window..

What a Day...

Wifes friends 05 Jeep got vandiklized today.. 2 Gallons of water in the Engine.. 40k on the truck.. Anyway it starting knocking and she killed the engine.. Lucky she wasnt listening to the radio loud.. I didnt wanna hear the knock, so it may have been a Lifter not primed.. Didnt wanna kill it more..

Drained all 3 gallons of muk and refilled new filter etc.. Primed the Crap outta it, and prayed.. Shes running with no knocks or taps.. How lucky can someone be, well someone was looking after her I guess...

Now the fun part, Flushing tons of oil thru the engine and keep changing the filter.. Great fun..

Shes not outta the woods yet, cause I didnt get it hot hot yet. But I think Its gonna make it.. Only 4k for an engine for that puppy and the insurance company will make that call anyway, which It should have new lower end bearings put in and the crank checked anyway. But we will see. You cant just pull the Oil pan cause its 4x4..

Just 4 weeks ago, she had Water in the fuel tank and that was drained and refilled, fuel pump, sock etc now this.. What kinda world we live in..

Tartersauce, did you say that water was put in the engine oil?!? Ugh. What kind of neighborhood is this, where she live? Sounds like a disgruntled ex that needs a TRO. And an alarm system for each of her vehicles and house. What did you mean by, do to prime it? Is that just pouring oil through and draining off the water and oil? I would think there would be some sort of alcohol based fluid that absorbs water,that you could use for water flooded engines. There certainly are plenty around with all the floods and hurricanes.

Tartersauce, did you say that water was put in the engine oil?!? Ugh. What kind of neighborhood is this, where she live? Sounds like a disgruntled ex that needs a TRO. And an alarm system for each of her vehicles and house. What did you mean by, do to prime it? Is that just pouring oil through and draining off the water and oil? I would think there would be some sort of alcohol based fluid that absorbs water,that you could use for water flooded engines. There certainly are plenty around with all the floods and hurricanes.

Primed Oil - means having oil pressure without the engine running. Easiest way is to hold your foot down on the gas and crank away without the engine starting. It will fill the bearings with fresh oil.. I dont know about additives to remove that gunk, Ive always just did a flush little by little.
The truck has an alarm, what good right? And yes, was her X. I got fingerprints off the hood with graphite, just have to get proof now.. This poor truck, and the women, Two kids and this guy does this, or his friends I guess. Camera will be next..
Ive only flushed it once, filter and oil just to see if the engine was still tight and its quiet if you can beleive that..

Oh yes 2 gallons of water, the oil was running out the intake box cause it floated to the top. Wanted to get oil in there as quick as possible before rust.. I have to get photos so If you wanna see what 3 gallons of gunk looks like LOL

This isnt the first crankcase Ive been with, as we live near alot of beaches. Once a Guy blew a head gasket on a Pinaferina, and it filled the crankcase with antifreeze. He drove it 5 10 miles on a highway and that also lived. Water has Some lubing properties, but not like oil..

If this thing lives, Ill be locking the hood down with a bike cable and master lock.. Shell have to worry about her drain plug and oil filter then. I know he pulled on the hood cable cause these rad rubber covers are just layin in there and the clips are gone. If you pull hard enough the hood will pop open..

One deceased 05 jeep.. When hot, and idling the oil light appears Ouch.. Oil just blowin right by the worn bearing or bearings. Slight knock at idle.. A few miles And Im sure that baby will be Knocking its way thru the block..

Poor thing.. 40k on it.. Its a shame.