State of this forum...and me! *LONG*

Earlier this week I had a few situations with individuals on AF that tested my patience beyond what I was willing to accept from an internet message board. 1 member was a noob that, in hindsight, was probably a little too enthusiastic for his own good. He got a little carried away so I PM'ed him in an effort to keep him in check before someone really took issue with him. He took it out of context and blew it way out of proportion and I decided to remove myself after that. But V-noob was only the last member to prod me that day, and the only one on the model forum.
What had really been the final straw was making the sorry mistake of venturing into the "off-topic" section and finding myself a little overwhelmed by the anti-war, anti-Bush, and even anti-American sigs that some members were displaying. I PM'ed a couple of those folks and was truly assaulted with some of the most disgusting tirades I have ever been subject too. One member was lamenting how Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't around to "do his thing" today!
If you do not agree with the United States taking action against Iraq in response to their violation of UN treaty 1441, so be it. If you do not agree that Palistinian and other Terrorists being funded by Iraq doesn't present a clear and present danger to the world, so be it. If you feel that Saddam can be trusted by the world with weapons of mass destruction, even though he used them on his own countrymen, so be it.
As a founding member of the Marine Corps' first anti-terrorism unit I worked with countries the world over and am still an advisor to the US goverment on this issue. I am also a Gulf War vet and have a pretty good idea what we are getting into with Iraq. I really cannot understand why so many are parading the "moral justification" arguement of this intended action when those who claim such morals rarely live moral lives. The US government officials in charge are not taking this action lightly and are taking whatever steps are nessessary to keep the action contained. We do not do this without stress, concern, and anxiety. This isn't about oil, colonization, empire building, or greed. Those who claim it is have no knowledge of the Marshall Plan or the nation-building that the US has done in the past, at our own expense.
AF forums are not the place for politics, and I'm sorry for going into this here but I wanted those of you who were interested to know why I chose to remove myself from the board.... temporarily.
After a couple of days off I've put things into perspective, taken a deep breath, and decided that I enjoyed this forum too much to leave at this point.
As for the health of AF's modeling forum (the only place I will be participating) I think we are simply going through some growning pains like any other popular forum. I read the "This board is going to crap" post earlier and had a feeling some of that may have stemmed from my actions this week. Sure enough, I was mentioned at the end. So, here is what I intend to do to help the board grow smoothly...
1 - Be more patient with noobs! Many times they are just plain excited and it's up to us to turn them into the modelers they want to be. Yes, they will annoy on occasion but let's give them the benefit of the doubt. They are the future of this hobby and more builders means more models in the future!!
2 - Continue to share my knowledge with those who are interested in my experience.
3 - Re-introduce the "Ultimate Camaro" in a new thread. I wasn't pleased with the old one, that's why I deleted it.
4 - Be specific with the headings of my posts. I wont get you into reading something you aren't expecting.
5 - Let the pretenders go about their business. Those who do not build won't be around long.
Here, IMHO is what others should do...
1 - Learn to spell!! My god, people, some of your writings are barely readable!
2 - PM someone if you have a question not related to a posting.
3 - Keep politics off of AF in general, even in the "off topic" forum. This is an international forum but we do not need to fight here.
4 - Offer solutions instead of pointing to problems.

P-man, 64 Chevy, Tonioseven, John, and Lowryda - Thanks for the encouraging words...
Now I know this goes against the intentions I just listed, but I have to go and Rambo some left-wing folks in the "Off Topic" forum... just once!
The Camaro thread will be back Sunday
Thanks,
Russ

Those are wise words.

very glad to see you aren't leaving. i was disappointed when i read the "ignore lists" thread. looking forward to seeing the ultimate camaro:D

Good to see you back :flash:
Some very thoughtful words to your post.

We will get to the bottom of this probem and make this the place were people want to come and enjoy them selfs:)

Well said man, it was a long thread, but reading it was all worth it. Great to see you coming back here and looking forward to your models.
And allthough I'm not such a fanatic modeler (others words, haven't build for months..) I'm still here because it is fantastic to see other models and the ambience here is great. And even I get annoyed sometimes by questions of newcomers, while I am even worse at modelling than them. And even then if I know where the answer is (like the FAQ or the SEARCh button) I will help those. Maybe not in such a nice way as I can on a normal day, but it works.

Again great to have you back here!!!

Greetz
Stefan

Back!!! :D

Welcome back!!

Hey Murco, I'm glad your staying! It would have been a big loss without you. You do make very valid points and I think all of us should starting following them too! It would just clean up the board and make this a better place :D

glad to have you back. you stated your opinions very clearly. looking forward to your ultimate camaro thread version 2.

WELCOME BACK!!! :flash:
Glad you have stayed. :flash:

Murco, I am very happy to see you back, and look forward to seeing you posting here again.

This place can be frustrating at times, but the trouble makers generally tire and go away after their intent is clear and ignored by our members, its the real enthusiast's who stay and make AF a very worthwhile place to spend time.

Ok that said, Lets build some models! Welcome Back!!

Welcome Back? He never left! :D :D He took the time to think about it, looked at the good pints dealed with the bad ones and had the courage to put that into writing and made us think a bit!! BRAVO!

It's good that you are staying around Murco!

Guido
ps. about the language, as you said, we are international but you should forgive the people who don't master your mother language as good as native english speakers. ;) But if you are referring to native english speakers, then you are right.

Sorry, but I don't have time to reply with all my reactions, ut I'll give you the short version:

Russ, GOOD FORM!!! :coolguy: Good to have you back onboard!

Well said Murco. Glad to know someone else feels the same way as me.

Awesome sig man!

My grandpa used to be chaplain for the US forces in germany and Western Europe.

Well said that man!!
Murco I agree entirely with what you said and it's not very often you gat an American talking sense:D :D !!
I well remember the Gulf War as we had a load of Americans posted (or do you guys say 'billeted'?) at RAF Cranwell as they were running the MedEvac Hospital at Nocton Hall, luckily it was NEVER used! but they had all sorts of equipment there for various chemical/biological injuries, they wre great guys, couldn't drink enough to beat us though!! Oh but I did get a nice desert camouflage cap off one guy!!

Murco,

When I read your post, my jaw dropped to the ground. I could not believe that any individuals would display their beliefs on a car forum. I was astonished and as an american citezen quite offended. People need to keep their beliefs to themselves. I could not believe how well written this thread is. You are a wise man..and i hope you stay with us forever. We need more people like you to help cope with everything. You do it the best. Thanks again, Murco.

~Ryan

Originally posted by RyanGiorgio
Murco,

When I read your post, my jaw dropped to the ground. I could not believe that any individuals would display their beliefs on a car forum. I was astonished and as an american citezen quite offended. People need to keep their beliefs to themselves. I could not believe how well written this thread is. You are a wise man..and i hope you stay with us forever. We need more people like you to help cope with everything. You do it the best. Thanks again, Murco.

~Ryan


err..........There IS a politics forum at AF to discuss politics- And discussion of poilitics is what goes on there- And discussing them in this thread ends here

Murco- decent to see you came to your senses- no lets all hope you stop taking the internet so damn seriously.


And be quick twith the Camaro thread:D

We have a Politics and current affairs forum on AF,it is up to the individual member as to whether or not they wish to participate,and it is allowed to operate in an honest,open and robust manner.If you can't take the heat,stay out of the kitchen.Posting this kind of thread has little or nothing to do with modelling.Come down to Rambo Off -Topic any time you like,but don't get all upset when people put facts in front of you.

"F**K YOU, YOU GUTLESS, GODLESS, PIECE OF SH*T!" Is not acceptable as a response to any post,in any forum,for any reason on AF.If you care to come back to the political forum,please show a bit more respect for the user guidelines.You'll find them in my sig.

Glad to see that you decided to stay.

Glad that you're staying with AF. As noob myself - I think the experience and knowledge of vets (to model car building ;) ) like yourself, is what makes this forum so great!!

Amen, Good thread. Glad to know your going to stay around.

Welcome back, long post, but worthe reading! Glad you decided to stay!

Well said and welcome back.

No matter what you have done to me, i read it. I now understand why you got off on me for no real reason. What i also understand is, that you guys should be more patient with new commers, and try be calm if you even have to answer to the same question many times. Also the biggest issue for you Russ, was a posting temp of users. Like come on man, we are all old enough and understand that this tiny problem is not the reason to go crazy and leave the forums, and close all the projects. Indeed, i might be new to modeling, maybe the stuff doesnt just click in my head, but hey we all where new to this right? What if you put yourself in my spot or someone else's, that wont feel good correct? So the incident that happend before, between us should be just forgotten. Myself, i want peace. I know i am a hard person to get along with, i am a scorpio, but i am trying to be as flexible as i can. So my part of sorry was brought to you, and everyone else. Now you decide if you want to continue in peace, or no.
Adios.

Murco leaving???:eek: :eek: :eek: :confused: I am glad you decided to stay. And I agree with you on the "growing pains" perspective. I`ve seen this in so many other message boards and newsgroups over the years. Remember when we were new to this, and our excitement that sometimes got us into trouble? ;) That`s how we learned the ropes the hard way.
And I am glad to hear what happened, even though you went way off topic. You`ve been such a great contributor, from what I`ve seen, that many people here would be interested in what`s going on off topic or not.
For the record, I don`t think occassional off-topic posting is a bad thing. On the contrary, it adds vitality. There are fewer here with radical agendas than in subject specific boards.

Posting this kind of thread has little or nothing to do with modelling.

Likewise, couldn`t you have contacted him via private message with this instead of posting an off topic chastisement for all of us, which none of us really care to see?

Drama Queen :rolleyes:







just playin', words of wisdom man :)

More then happy to see you will stay with us Murco, I was very dissapointed and annoyed to hear you were leaving. Looking forward to the Ultimate Camaro. I know what you are talking about with the "Learn how to spell" part of your post, very annoying to try to read some peoples posts when they don't type properly. Also annoying is the threads that state "Does any make a......". Being on a 56K dial up I don't want to waste my time loading a non-important or interesting thread. Again, more then happy to see your staying.:D

I have mixed feelings about Murco's post... Okay, on some level it's nice to have his models back, but I couldn't care less if the guy himself left. He is obviously a great modeller, but a little too aware of that... although his attitude has softened a bit, he's not as annoying as in the beginning, but still annoys me to no end (maybe it's just me, though)

Also, what is the point of judging other users' signatures and then putting that kinda signature himself?? I have no problem with that signature by itself, but this is an international board, and someone might find that offending.

just my two eurocents,
Mika

Originally posted by Mikke
I have mixed feelings about Murco's post... Okay, on some level it's nice to have his models back, but I couldn't care less if the guy himself left. He is obviously a great modeller, but a little too aware of that... although his attitude has softened a bit, he's not as annoying as in the beginning, but still annoys me to no end (maybe it's just me, though)

Also, what is the point of judging other users' signatures and then putting that kinda signature himself?? I have no problem with that signature by itself, but this is an international board, and someone might find that offending.

just my two eurocents,
Mika

Excellent point and well siad :D


Andas for the Eurocents- you and your plastic play-money:finger:

Good to seeya stayin, people with your experiance and skills make this forum what it is and we all should remember that.:cool:

Originally posted by Bobj
Good to seeya stayin, people with your experiance and skills make this forum what it is and we all should remember that.:cool:


Actually that would have to be a role that I reserve for Warren- just my opinion

Fair enough and i agree. I think there are a few modellers on this forum that we could say the same about, agreed?.:cool:

Originally posted by Hawk312
Likewise, couldn`t you have contacted him via private message with this instead of posting an off topic chastisement for all of us, which none of us really care to see?
Oh, he did!! This is the one (taranaki) who I found to be such an offensive poster!
He has so far insulted my country, my president, my politics, my military background, and questioned my education!! I tried to bury the hatchet with an apology for some comments (flames) I made about him, and be done with it. Yet, he still keeps coming at me! This guys a moderator, no less!! The muscles in my neck get tense at the sight of his name!
V-man needs not be banned from AF, troublemakers and pot-stirrers who make this place unpleasant (like taranaki) need to be banned if all they contribute is hate, anger, and tension...
I hope he will leave me be now, I've made my attempt at peace.
If not, I will surely leave for good...

You don't know Taranaki. As far as I'm concerned, he's one of the most respected members here. So what if you have differing opinions? And definiely the "all they contribute is hate, anger, and tension" is way off. I repeat - you don't know him, how can you make comments like this? :confused:

Originally posted by ales
You don't know Taranaki. As far as I'm concerned, he's one of the most respected members here. So what if you have differing opinions? And definiely the "all they contribute is hate, anger, and tension" is way off. I repeat - you don't know him, how can you make comments like this? :confused:
I've PM'ed you with some of my evidence, make up your own mind...
Anyway, Why do we have a politics forum on AF anyway?? Is this not a place for car lovers to gather??

Originally posted by Mikke
I have mixed feelings about Murco's post... Okay, on some level it's nice to have his models back, but I couldn't care less if the guy himself left. He is obviously a great modeller, but a little too aware of that... although his attitude has softened a bit, he's not as annoying as in the beginning, but still annoys me to no end (maybe it's just me, though)

just my two eurocents,
Mika
Didn't mean to annoy!
I'll try to be a "softer, more gentle modeler" from now on!!:D

Originally posted by Murco
Anyway, Why do we have a politics forum on AF anyway?? Is this not a place for car lovers to gather?? The Politics/Current Affairs/Investments forum evolved from a 9/11 subforum. After the attack, there were lots of threads that obviously didn't belong in with the rest of the OT junk, so we made a separate forum to keep the 'serious' threads from getting bastardized. It's name (and focus, somewhat) changed in the past year or so...

Originally posted by Murco

I've PM'ed you with some of my evidence, make up your own mind...
Anyway, Why do we have a politics forum on AF anyway?? Is this not a place for car lovers to gather??

I read you PM, and my mind is made up after a couple of years knowing him.

We have a politics forum because we're all people here and we have more than cars on our minds (not me as I've never posted there :p). f you don't want to read it, just don't read it. As simple as that.

Could everyone contributing to this thread go and do some modelling, it's a great stress reliever (or so I've heard ;) )

We don't want to see this kinda stuff at the Car Modeling forum, do we?
So... could someone please close this thread? :)

Not that this isn't interesting.... :D