96-98 engine in a 95 with AX4S transmission
searcherrr
10-22-2007, 01:34 PM
I'd really appreciate any help fast (today 10/22/07) as this is a bit of an emergency)
I've got the 95 with AX4S transmission. My water pump just went out and the engine overheated to the point there was loud knock though I feathered it along 20-30 mph to get to a truck stop. It probably drove about 1/8th of a mile knocking and over the H on the gauge. I'm stuck in MS and the van is at the Ford Dealership getting the water pump replaced, but I am evaluating options if the engine is bad or goes bad as I am towing 3000lbs for another 700 miles. Mechanics are telling me its a good possibility the aluminum heads are warped due to overheating so bad, but again I've done a lot of work on this van to keep it in good shape. The oil is only about 2 weeks old and I've seafoamed the crankcase and air intake and fuel system about 3 weeks ago (oil was changed after driving past 25 miles). After the initial cool down I refilled the radiator with water to the top (leaking out of the water pump area; moderate leak) and drove it 4 miles to a hotel and kept it under the H (still towing the 3000lbs). Detached the trailer today and drove it 1 mile to Ford and kept it just a tad over the center temp range on the gauge.
Reading up on our Windstars here: http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/1995-to-1998-ford-windstar.htm
I learned that the 96 - 98 engines had a redesigned cooling system which gave the van another 45 hp and possibly better gas mileage too. Knowing I have the AX4S tranny (which I believe is used in the 96's - 98's; someone can confirm this?) can't I just plop in a 96 - 98 engine? What are the things to consider? Would I need to get a new ECM (ECU)? I think I'd have to also get the air intake to go with it cause they changed them in the 3.8L after 95 initial production year, but other than that is it direct bolt on? or are there other fitting issues to consider?
I've got the 95 with AX4S transmission. My water pump just went out and the engine overheated to the point there was loud knock though I feathered it along 20-30 mph to get to a truck stop. It probably drove about 1/8th of a mile knocking and over the H on the gauge. I'm stuck in MS and the van is at the Ford Dealership getting the water pump replaced, but I am evaluating options if the engine is bad or goes bad as I am towing 3000lbs for another 700 miles. Mechanics are telling me its a good possibility the aluminum heads are warped due to overheating so bad, but again I've done a lot of work on this van to keep it in good shape. The oil is only about 2 weeks old and I've seafoamed the crankcase and air intake and fuel system about 3 weeks ago (oil was changed after driving past 25 miles). After the initial cool down I refilled the radiator with water to the top (leaking out of the water pump area; moderate leak) and drove it 4 miles to a hotel and kept it under the H (still towing the 3000lbs). Detached the trailer today and drove it 1 mile to Ford and kept it just a tad over the center temp range on the gauge.
Reading up on our Windstars here: http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/1995-to-1998-ford-windstar.htm
I learned that the 96 - 98 engines had a redesigned cooling system which gave the van another 45 hp and possibly better gas mileage too. Knowing I have the AX4S tranny (which I believe is used in the 96's - 98's; someone can confirm this?) can't I just plop in a 96 - 98 engine? What are the things to consider? Would I need to get a new ECM (ECU)? I think I'd have to also get the air intake to go with it cause they changed them in the 3.8L after 95 initial production year, but other than that is it direct bolt on? or are there other fitting issues to consider?
searcherrr
10-22-2007, 03:27 PM
The general information sticky http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=672854 says:
ENGINE ALL YEARS.
Most published manuals will refer to this front wheel drive engine as follows.
Front wheel drive, "Front" of engine is on passenger side.
Contains the water pump, power steering pump, serpentine belt, tensioner pulley (toward fire wall), idler pulley, Alternator, etc.
"Right" side, also "Bank 1" is the side of the engine that is toward the passenger compartment. Contains Cylinder #1. on the passenger side, #2 in the middle, and #3 on the driver side.
"Left" side, also "BANK 2" is toward the front, radiator. Cylinder #4 is on the passenger side, #5 in the middle, and #6 on the driver side.
AIR / FUEL INDUCTION:
1995 3.8L has a aluminum upper intake manifold, with no Intake Manifold Runner.
1996-1998 3.8L has a black nylon upper intake manifold with the Intake Manifold Runner....called "Cross Port Induction".
A second opening is opened up at or just above 2900RPM to provide more power under hard accelleration, boosting the horse power rating to 200hp starting with the 1996 year.
1996 - 1998 are vaccum controled
I also read elsewhere this:
"1995 Windstar engine upgrade: Which of the later model engines swap into a 1995?
Answer
The 3.8 engines from vans up to about '03 or so will fit in the 95 Windstar. However, they are significantly different (split port induction) and you will need the PCM, most of the engine wiring, and who knows what else. At some point, the bolt pattern between the engine and transmission changed, so you cannot use the newest engines with your transmission. If you wanted to use a Freestar 4.2, you would have to swap the whole powertrain as a unit. I am not sure if the subframe mounting points are the same."
I would really need a new PCM for the 1996 - 1998 engine? What if I swapped the intake... put the 95 intake setup on the 96-98 engine? Would I then still need a new PCM and 96-98 engine harness wiring?
ENGINE ALL YEARS.
Most published manuals will refer to this front wheel drive engine as follows.
Front wheel drive, "Front" of engine is on passenger side.
Contains the water pump, power steering pump, serpentine belt, tensioner pulley (toward fire wall), idler pulley, Alternator, etc.
"Right" side, also "Bank 1" is the side of the engine that is toward the passenger compartment. Contains Cylinder #1. on the passenger side, #2 in the middle, and #3 on the driver side.
"Left" side, also "BANK 2" is toward the front, radiator. Cylinder #4 is on the passenger side, #5 in the middle, and #6 on the driver side.
AIR / FUEL INDUCTION:
1995 3.8L has a aluminum upper intake manifold, with no Intake Manifold Runner.
1996-1998 3.8L has a black nylon upper intake manifold with the Intake Manifold Runner....called "Cross Port Induction".
A second opening is opened up at or just above 2900RPM to provide more power under hard accelleration, boosting the horse power rating to 200hp starting with the 1996 year.
1996 - 1998 are vaccum controled
I also read elsewhere this:
"1995 Windstar engine upgrade: Which of the later model engines swap into a 1995?
Answer
The 3.8 engines from vans up to about '03 or so will fit in the 95 Windstar. However, they are significantly different (split port induction) and you will need the PCM, most of the engine wiring, and who knows what else. At some point, the bolt pattern between the engine and transmission changed, so you cannot use the newest engines with your transmission. If you wanted to use a Freestar 4.2, you would have to swap the whole powertrain as a unit. I am not sure if the subframe mounting points are the same."
I would really need a new PCM for the 1996 - 1998 engine? What if I swapped the intake... put the 95 intake setup on the 96-98 engine? Would I then still need a new PCM and 96-98 engine harness wiring?
searcherrr
10-22-2007, 09:59 PM
As I have searched on this issue it seems that other people didn't get answered either. I guess this is because this is an issue thats not worth pursuing to most or even discussing cause apparently even though the engines are fairly similar on the 95's vs the 96's to 98's there were several sensor changes and modifications done to improve the engine. Thus this is the type of matter you'd discuss for race or sports car application in that you want to convert a base model to a faster model and all involved is the engine, ALL WIRING HARNESSES and CONNECTORS, and the PCM (I guess this is what the ECM or ECU is called in these Windstars or Fords in general).
Like me wanting to convert my Mitsubishi 3000GT to a Twin Turbo version... it'd be much easier and more cost effective to go buy a TT instead. It is really aggravating to know though that I bought the most wrong year Windstar I could've bought.... the 95. 96 - 98 would've been a lot better I believe and even though I lucked out with the head gasket issue on my 95 as it wasn't one of the ones that had this problem some of the maintenance procedures for this vehicle are just plain nuts.
Still love it though. lol HAaaaaaa... As far as I'm concerned its a great van and pulls its weight the majority of the time. I have had it on several cross country trips without problems.
Like me wanting to convert my Mitsubishi 3000GT to a Twin Turbo version... it'd be much easier and more cost effective to go buy a TT instead. It is really aggravating to know though that I bought the most wrong year Windstar I could've bought.... the 95. 96 - 98 would've been a lot better I believe and even though I lucked out with the head gasket issue on my 95 as it wasn't one of the ones that had this problem some of the maintenance procedures for this vehicle are just plain nuts.
Still love it though. lol HAaaaaaa... As far as I'm concerned its a great van and pulls its weight the majority of the time. I have had it on several cross country trips without problems.
phil-l
10-23-2007, 07:21 AM
searcherrr -
Wow! Sorry to hear of your problems.
I responded to your thermostat question on another thread before seeing this thread, and included this item that I'll link to again...
Here's a summary of Ford 3.8 engine changes made to address the head gasket problem:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030720010813/http://www3.edmunds.com/ownership/driving/articles/42970/article.html
As you've discovered, the mechanics of engine swaps are readily doable - but the electronics often push the project into the realm of an enthusiast who's looking to perhaps create capabilities the manufacturer didn't originally supply. In your case, this kind of swap is certainly something the dealer would be wary of, due to future support and service issues.
Sadly, it'd probably cost less - and pose fewer hassles in the future - to simply find another Windstar that includes the later engine updates.
I hope everything works out well for you!
Wow! Sorry to hear of your problems.
I responded to your thermostat question on another thread before seeing this thread, and included this item that I'll link to again...
Here's a summary of Ford 3.8 engine changes made to address the head gasket problem:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030720010813/http://www3.edmunds.com/ownership/driving/articles/42970/article.html
As you've discovered, the mechanics of engine swaps are readily doable - but the electronics often push the project into the realm of an enthusiast who's looking to perhaps create capabilities the manufacturer didn't originally supply. In your case, this kind of swap is certainly something the dealer would be wary of, due to future support and service issues.
Sadly, it'd probably cost less - and pose fewer hassles in the future - to simply find another Windstar that includes the later engine updates.
I hope everything works out well for you!
wiswind
10-24-2007, 09:10 PM
Searcherr sent me a PM as well as posting here.
As it turned out.....my computer broke....my monitor died......
So I was not able to get back to him as soon as I wish I could have....not that I could add anything to help him.
What he DID do is post here for others to see. as well as PM me
So, if it is a hurry situation.....it is best to post so many people can see.
I am NOT the most experienced person in this forum, and....sometimes I may not be able to respond (like when I cannot see what my computer is doing).
I feel bad about not being able to get back to him sooner than I did.
I feel his pain.....and know first hand the feeling when something goes wrong with MY vehicle.
It is real easy for me to babble away here...but when one's own vehicle is broke.....panic sets in real fast.....at least for me it does!!!!
Having a vehicle break while out on a trip takes it to a whole new level of stress.
As it turned out.....my computer broke....my monitor died......
So I was not able to get back to him as soon as I wish I could have....not that I could add anything to help him.
What he DID do is post here for others to see. as well as PM me
So, if it is a hurry situation.....it is best to post so many people can see.
I am NOT the most experienced person in this forum, and....sometimes I may not be able to respond (like when I cannot see what my computer is doing).
I feel bad about not being able to get back to him sooner than I did.
I feel his pain.....and know first hand the feeling when something goes wrong with MY vehicle.
It is real easy for me to babble away here...but when one's own vehicle is broke.....panic sets in real fast.....at least for me it does!!!!
Having a vehicle break while out on a trip takes it to a whole new level of stress.
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