96 maxima vs 03 altima 3.5L

I race a 03 3.5L altima today, stayed neck to neck until we hit 110. Does anyone know if a (race pipe) straight pipe, replacing the cat. converter would give me the edge? He's stock, all I have is cat.back and JWT intake

I pretty much asked the same thing about a month ago, I shat on the 2.5L and never raced a 3.5L I wanted to know the outcome if I had Y-pipe exaust and Intake alone.

I spanked a 97 GLE and a 96 SE in my 2.5 S

I think if you are going to beat a 5 speed v6 your gonna need all the bolt ons and then some. But if its an auto, get full exhaust system, yes the race pipe and intake and you should have the edge on a stock auto.

"I spanked a 97 GLE and a 96 SE in my 2.5 S"

Anything can happen in Street racing but I don't see how you beat a max in your 2.5 when I SHAT on one with my girlfriend in the car and the dude driving the 2.5 was by himself. I heard intake on his car and he had some can looking muffler on it but I closed my eyes the whole time after I started pulling
:p I'm not saying your fibbing but......................................

last car I owned before this was a 97GLE, trust me, this car is faster.

My cousin owns a 96 SE fully loaded, leather and all. I have a base 2.5s with just air conditioning and cd player and 5 speed.

So my 5 speed vs his auto, I pulled him off the line, he even brake torqued it. I pulled and pulled, had him by like 2 cars at the end of second gear.

Then another day, some guy in a GLE with clear corners pulls up next to me and i hear his wheels lose traction so I take off as well, i only pulled him by half a car going down hill and I let up at like 70.

no way. a 2.5 altima has the same engine as the se-r sentra (not even the spec-v) and the Altima is heavier. I never raced a 2k3 4 cylinder altima but i smoked a brand new se-r spec-v.

I agree with Panoessa, there's no way a 2.5l Altima is faster than a VQ30DE equipped Max...considering the Max weighs about 200 pounds less and packs a lot more torque (205 lb-ft)
:bandit:

ER Ummm Exactly!!!!!!:bloated:

uhh the max weighs like 3400 lbs, my altima weighs 3100 lbs

If someone wants to host a 10 meg video, ill film me beating a 96 SE Maxima.

And I know how to drive a 5 speed very well.

Oh and it does have the "spec v" motor, my car has 175 hp, the se-r has 165.

Originally posted by Paonessa
no way. a 2.5 altima has the same engine as the se-r sentra (not even the spec-v) and the Altima is heavier. I never raced a 2k3 4 cylinder altima but i smoked a brand new se-r spec-v.

:rolleyes:


YOu have a 5 speed maxima, runs a 15 second 1/4, the Spec V runs a 15.4.

I raced auto maximas, they supposedly run a 15.5, but I always lost to a gsr in my Maxima, got pulled on in my second gear, the gsr's third. So I know it was runnning slower then a 15.5.

you got it all back asswards :)
My 4th generation 5 speed maxima weighs 2895 lbs with the seats.
3100 or so with an automatic tranny
the se-r spec v has 185 hp 175 torque
the normal se-r is 175 all around

thrasher'll back me up
he knows what he's talking about

Yup, I sure will back you up Panoessa...you got it right.
There is no way a 2.5 liter will beat a VQ Maxima...i'm sorry, it just won't happen. HP doesn't matter, it's torque that counts in acceleration.
Altima 2.5= 181 lb-ft
4th Gen Max=205 lb-ft
Advantage Maxima
:bandit:

YOU GUYS ARE PLAIN F'IN IGNORANT.

Find a 4th gen in so-cal, one with intake thats automatic, and ILL RACE HIM ON VIDEO


Thats quoted from Nissans site, YOU GUYS DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT NISSAN

""The proof is in the driving. 165-hp on SE-R. 175-hp on the ultra-aggressive SE-R Spec V. Superhuman force. And a utility belt full of tricks. Call on it when you need to remind yourself what driving is all about. ""


:flipa: :flipa: :finger: :flipa: :flipa:

Originally posted by thrasher
Yup, I sure will back you up Panoessa...you got it right.
There is no way a 2.5 liter will beat a VQ Maxima...i'm sorry, it just won't happen. HP doesn't matter, it's torque that counts in acceleration.
Altima 2.5= 181 lb-ft
4th Gen Max=205 lb-ft
Advantage Maxima
:bandit:


Nissan Maxima 205lbs of torque
Honda s2000 153lbs of torque

Advantage, Maxima

(im being sarcastic and mocking you) what do you think of that?

Ok, well here is a little lesson for you.
The Honda S2000 weighs only 2800 pounds, and less weight means better power to wieght ratio, whcih directly translates into better acceleration.
The Honda S2000 has six forward gears, which allows it the luxury of having more aggressive gearing in the lower gears and stretched out gears at the top for higher top speed. More aggressive gearing in the low gears means better acceleration.
The Honda S2000 is RWD, which means that the motor is connected to a driveshaft that powers the rear wheels instead of the front, eliminating torque steer under hard acceleration and keeping the car pointed straight ahead. Again, this produces better acceleration.
The Honda S2000 has a 9000rpm redline. This means that the Maxima will get off the line quicker because of the torque advantage, but the Honda will quickly gain on and overtake the Max as the Revs increase.
All of these contributing factors show us why the S2000 will accelerate more quickly.
And back to the Maxima/Altima controversy, the Altima enjoys none of those advantages, while the Max is just as light, if not lighter, while also having the advantage in HP and torque.

Yes, but RWD loses like 20% hp to the wheels, where FWD is only %15. :D

Yes i am gonna be a pain in the ass and throw up a bunch of stupid arguments for you :)


So my cousins maxima has 40lbs on me. I have a 5 speed tranny with close ratio gearing then him, meaning gears 1-4 on my car accelerate quicker then his 1-3 gears.

QR25DE - 175HP / 181LBs Toque
VQ30DE - 190HP / 205Lbs Torque

I think gearing can make up for that puny difference.

Im telling you guys, find a 4th gen max in so-cal for me to race and its on. Dont be bitches and argue with me, find someone who wants to race.

i wish i wasn't on the other side of the counrty so i could shit all over your 20-something thousand dollar sloth-mobile.

You said it yourself, if you were to race your 5 speed against an automatic, you'd win.
a stock 4th gen 5 speed max'll smoke a new 2.5 altima 5 speed

Whatever, I'm not on this site to be called dumb...if we're gonna argue cars, then fine...if i want to do name calling i'll go back to high school

cry me a river - build me a bridge - and get over it

I'm in Los Angeles, and I have a 4th gen auto, I'll gladly take you on!!:eek: Where are the street races at?

thing is I smoked a 2.5 S stick already w/ my girl in the car and he had at least intake and exaust about a month ago! But enough on the talk if you say you can beat a max then we'll see right, I'll bring a camera too;)

If you want to come down to orange county, let me know

so are you gonna do this or what? someone needs to show jbl how a 4 cyliner and a six compare to each other. especially from the same company

:D I use to own a maxima, my dad owned one too. He had a 97 GLE white with black int. sunroof and ABS. My Gle was white with beige interior, no sunroof or abs though.

Both very powerful, but, the auto tranny sucks. My altima has a 5 speed, so I am gonna give a car with .5 liter larger engine a run for its money.

maybe, but you keep giving yourself an advantage. if yours is 5 speed and thiers is auto, or if you have intake and cat back exhaust and they don't.
if you ran a 5 speed max you'd get smoked
if you ran an automatic maxima 4th gen vs a 5 spd altima 2.5 I think you'd get eaten still. you got 4 cylinder lag. all 4 cylinders have it. excpet for the $36,000 S2000 which you aren't driving
and then when someone tries to prove you wrong you flip out like a little girl and start swearing and calling people names and using all the gay little smiley faces
just let it go dude. you wasted $18,000
shoulda got a new srt 4 neon.

That was a lame post, there is no 4 cylinder lag until my third gear when the car bogs out. My cousin agreed to race me, so saturday, its on, I am filming my 02 Altima VS 96 Maxima.

I dont get why you guys hate so much, and you are showing way more ignorance then me by counter arguing me with only saying I have a 4 cylinder.

My only mod is a WAI, my cousins only mod is the same thing. So I am gonna film me raping some ass on a Maxima and thats it, then you and your buddy can shut your mouths.

It's not hate...at no point in my posts did i bring personal feelings into this matter...i'm just here to talk cars, and my posts reflect the thoughts i have concerning what others have posted. in this case, i don't believe that a 2.5 can pull on a VQ Max. 'nuff said
:bandit:

HAHAHAHA, PULL???

I dont pull on it, I spank it off the line :rolleyes:

Like I said, I can drive.

Hello.. just pokin through saw this thread... I think my Donkey could take you.:D

Where in OC are you? Im in Long Beach... PM me if you like.

Mission Viejo

Originally posted by JBL85
Mission Viejo

Man, this thing is starting to heat up, so I figured I'd jump in and add my .02. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't a 97 Max stick be able to beat a 2k auto Max?

I believe I read that on one of these forums before, I think the statement was that the 97 had better low end gearing and low end pull, but the VQ in the 2k has better top end pull. This is why some of the owner's of the 97/96's have installed the MEVI.

So, I guess JB is saying that he can also smash a 2k auto Max as well, are you JB?

Up until this post i've been civil with you but your being an asshole plain and simple. you're wrong and the 5 other people on the forum who agree with me are all telling you that.

gonna rape your cousin in his ass huh faggot?

well have fun

you're gona call my post lame? well suck a dick it's better than

"cry me a river - build me a bridge - and get over it". faggot

you cali mother fuckers must not be geting the same nissans as us New Yorkers and the other 48 states.

what the fuck kind of car bogs in third gear. 3rd is my cars most powerful gear. i'll smoke you and spend my extra $10,000 i saved on something better. it'll cost you $22,000 to beat my $8,500 maxima

Originally posted by Paonessa
Up until this post i've been civil with you but your being an asshole plain and simple. you're wrong and the 5 other people on the forum who agree with me are all telling you that.

gonna rape your cousin in his ass huh faggot?

well have fun

you're gona call my post lame? well suck a dick it's better than

"cry me a river - build me a bridge - and get over it". faggot

you cali mother fuckers must not be geting the same nissans as us New Yorkers and the other 48 states.

what the fuck kind of car bogs in third gear. 3rd is my cars most powerful gear. i'll smoke you and spend my extra $10,000 i saved on something better. it'll cost you $22,000 to beat my $8,500 maxima

Man, P you're better than that, you don't have to stoop to anyone else's level. Keep posting the way you've been no matter how disrespectful so people can get on this forum.
Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't even buy an Altima 2.5 (unless money is the limiting factor) you get the 3.5, then you are saying something.
Since the Altima has grown to be bigger than the Max I think it deserves the 3.5 in order to be able to haul all of the excess weight around.
This is one of the reasons I decided to buy my Max, because the Altima I knew it was going to grow in size, power and cost.

Not that it isn't a nice car though, it looks good, it's just that I wouldn't get nothing less than the 3.5 in it.
I still can't see how it can beat a Max (2.5 stick or auto) especially a 97/96 model when the Max was definitely living up to it's 4DSC moniker.
I know that I can say this because I have a 2k Max and some of the Max's natural characteristics were somewhat left behind when they upgraded (ie., added more weight, crappy auto trans and slower from 0-60).
I smoked a 2.5 the other day, the story is in another thread, but JB please for God sake don't get mad like that. There are a lot of people on this board with extensive knowledge and you know cause you been on this forum a while.
No need for the name calling on both ends, it is non-productive and it makes the guys who visit this board from other forums think we are a lil bit immature and idiots for hating on one another like this.
Please fellaz let's find something more constructive to talk about, we can start by looking at the bad @$$ Queen (QueenMaxima)
:silly2:

Ok, so you guys start making fun of me and my car when I have legit kills.

I've beaten FOUR Maximas. Its not a big deal, they areant all that, MY FAMILY HAS OWNED 2 Maximas and 6 Nissans In all. I know what the car is and I know what it is capable of. And like Panoessa said, third gear in the Maxima is strong, NO DOUBT, but I raced THREE Auto Maximas. I beat a 92 5 Speed SE with bolt ons.

Point being my car isnt as big of a piece as you guys make it out to be, Obviously I wanted a V6 but not everyone has money growing off of tree's so I apologize for my financial misfortune since it seems to be such a dissapointment that all I could afford was a decent 4 cylinder car.

As to name calling, what else can I do, you guys are just talking a lot of smack when its not a big deal. I never said I exactly liked my Altima more then my Maxima, but it was Auto and wasnt so great.

And a 95-99 5 Speed Maxima can WHOOP a 2000-2001 Auto.

i wasn't talking smack i just said i beat a 6 speed spec v se-r and it's got the same engine and less weight and therefore couldn't believe the claims of jb, i was just making a generalization. i didn't instigate anything and thrasher just agreed with me. someone else started filppin'

I hope you can beat a sentra, you have a 5 Speed Maxima, my point was I beat a automatic Maxima and you guys got pissed off at my claim, REFER to the first thread. It is about a Maxima beating a Altima and I was telling you guys that you are going to need mods to beat a low 14 second car if you drive an Automatic 96 Maxima.

Originally posted by Paonessa
i wasn't talking smack i just said i beat a 6 speed spec v se-r and it's got the same engine and less weight and therefore couldn't believe the claims of jb, i was just making a generalization. i didn't instigate anything and thrasher just agreed with me. someone else started filppin'

aaaaah,Civility, now that's more like it, I don't think anybody was hating on your Altima, I've owned 3 Altimas and it was a good car, I love the fact that it had one of the biggest 4 cylinders out there and that the torque was more than the honduh accorn.
As far as your financial decision to buy a 2.5, I was stating what I wouldn't do and to each his own. I'm not rich neither do I profess to be, we drive what we can afford.
Just be better to each other than what was going on here before, P, I applaud your civility as well as 97's and yours JB.'
This thread we can all learn something from and that is that everyone of us love our cars and you are not going to say that you did this and that to this car or that car without a comeback.

Just come back with some intelligence and not belligerence.
I enjoy reading posts from all of you guys and I've learned so much from P, 97 and you JB>I believe you sponsor another site, where I'm a member of there also<hope I'm not wrong.

Anyway, as far as Max vs Altima 2.5S or whatever, anybody can get caught sleeping and maybe the driver is not as skilled and maybe you are just a better driver. My point is that none of this will be proven until you either put up some timeslips or drag it out on the track fair and square.

Until then let's keep posting and respecting each other, that way I can keep learning something from all of you.

Im a member of Maxima.org and Altimas.net and a few random z forums.

I am going to dook it out with my cousin if I dont get caught up in work again. We are filming it so I can show you guys how fast, or in other words, how slow a 2.5 and auto maxima are.

-Nick

Or you can race me, I'm in Los Angeles, not too far away from you, We have a Maxima click out here with like 12+ people, you can take your pick. If you know where the street races are now, let me know, we'll all be there. They used to be in Conptom, but the Po Po's broke it up. Anyway hit me up whenever

I got an open .5 Mile long strip of road in irvine, we could race during the day and get like 3 or 4 runs in before someone calls the cop, then we have 5 minutes to clear out.

Let me know if you want to come down here.

we need places like that in new york where there's just 1/2 or 1/4 mile of straight road where no one bothers you. over here right now its like if you take a shit a cop is there to make sure you dont wipe your ass sideways

Originally posted by un4gvnbb
we need places like that in new york where there's just 1/2 or 1/4 mile of straight road where no one bothers you. over here right now its like if you take a shit a cop is there to make sure you dont wipe your ass sideways

Man all you Big city kats and west coast players are lucky, we don't have anywhere to really run like that in this one horse town, population here is 200 including livestock.

hey un4,
You live in westchester?

i live in poughkeepsie/dutchess county. we should start a petition to get a race track built for us. i got maaaaad friends who'll sign it. you ever been to englishtown race track? or liberty race track?

I have to say that this whole thread has been very interesting to read. If you are an excellent driver than maybe you can beat a Max, but when you go up against a driver just as good or better the outcome probably would be different. I raced a late model camaro not knowing what he had under the hood and even though he got me good on the line I stilled pulled past him and when we got to the stop I asked was he stock because I could hear his engine at idle sounding like he was revving up and he wasn't it was just a steady deep groan and he said that it was a V8 with nothing in it stock I told him that my Max was completely stock with a sound system in it and his mouth dropped. So the point is that he should have left me easy, but with the skill that I have it just wasn't happening. I'm up in Reno and we do have about 2 places that are set up for closed track races so if u wanna race let me know and I'll try to get something setup or if you know of a closed track location in the southern part of NV or CA let me know. I plan to be in Vegas in the beginning of next year for a few days. Just a little advice u guys shouldn't post where you do illegal street racing because everyone can read the post and the PO PO might just be the ones responding to your threads asking more info on where you are racing. Oh and just incase I did not mention it before my Max is an auto and you have to be a professional race car driver to beat it in an Altima 2.5 easy kill 3.5 a little harder but I'll probably still come out on top and yes I am confident.

Curious as to what year Camaro this is.

My friend has a Mustang, its as fast as a Camaro, but he has beaten 6 Speed Maximas with Intake. Thats 255hp car vs his 260hp, but if you say you can beat a mid 13 second car so be it.

I got footage of me driving, im not beaten the car up, just slipping the clutch off the line and through the gears, here it is since I said I would get a race in with my cousins maxima, but it never happened, over winter break most likely. Its finals week at school :(

Click here (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid42/p95bf13bb50c9dd3749b8f2af19f437be/fceb8906.mpg)

By the way this is the road I plan on racing on, although I started in the middle and only could hit like 75mph, if you start at the end, you can get up to 100 and have good distance for breaking.

First off the only model Mustang that will wipe out a Maxima is a Cobra or better such as a special edition like a Saleen. The V6 Mustang would get left easy I know I've done it plenty of times and the GT would make a good race but it will probably loose. The last Mustang I raced the driver asked if my car was turbocharged. I really have a slight problem in believing a race that you have with your cousin mainly because if your family is like my family you stick together and he may loose to help you make your point as it seems that he isn't on the forum letting us know that he has any skills behind the wheel. The Camaro like I said in the post that it was a late model meaning that it was the last bodystyle that came out and the raced surprised me as I said that he should have left me standing still especially since nothing under his hood was stock he said the whole engine was redid with racing mods and like I said my car is completely stock with added weight. If you know how to drive you can drive an auto just as fast as a 5 or 6 speed.

I disagree that an auto can be driven as fast as a 5 or 6 speed. The computer can't change gears as fast as a well driven manual can, can't rev during gear changes, plus it has less aggressive gearing due to the fact that it has less gears to work with. You'll be hard pressed to find someone who agrees with you on that point. As far as the Mustangs go, you're right about the GT's, at least older ones, i piss on them all day long. But like JBL85 said, I'm damn sure a Maxima can't hang with a new GT (300+lb-ft.) or a new Camaro (320+lb-ft.). I'm not saying you're lying, i'm saying that a well driven Camaro or Mustang V8 will smoke a brand new 246lb-ft. Maxima, anyday. Believe me, I have one.
:bandit:

Good point on the computer can't change gears that fast, but if you remember that the ECU in the Max actually learns the driving habits of the driver and I do see a difference of how it responds to my driving after I have disconnected the battery to add something into the sound and video system. To get the car to change gears the way I like to drive I have to put it on freeway and punch it to the redline just like I would if I was in a stick and I actually can get it to change at the same pace that I would a 5speeed minus the last gear which actually has 3rd and 4th gears with a bigger gap between gear changes. True he should have left me and maybe he just not as good as of driver as he thought he was and shouldn't have challenged the Max. As it is said many times over and over they underestimate the Maxima 4DSC. Bottom line is any car can be slow if the driver doesn't have the skill to drive it fast and any car can be fast if the driver has the skill to drive it fast. So a lot of time the race isn't necessarily between the two or more cars in the race but between the drivers driving them.

Originally posted by thrasher
I disagree that an auto can be driven as fast as a 5 or 6 speed. The computer can't change gears as fast as a well driven manual can, can't rev during gear changes, plus it has less aggressive gearing due to the fact that it has less gears to work with. You'll be hard pressed to find someone who agrees with you on that point. As far as the Mustangs go, you're right about the GT's, at least older ones, i piss on them all day long. But like JBL85 said, I'm damn sure a Maxima can't hang with a new GT (300+lb-ft.) or a new Camaro (320+lb-ft.). I'm not saying you're lying, i'm saying that a well driven Camaro or Mustang V8 will smoke a brand new 246lb-ft. Maxima, anyday. Believe me, I have one.
:bandit:

It's not only the computer that is causing the delay in the shifting, it's the stupid torque converter as well, the Max by it being set up as a family somewhat luxury cruiser with the automagic is geared through the computer to shift at a slower luxury rate as to act or shift smoothly for that luxury feel and to help on the economy of fuel.
By the time that power is put through the converter and make it to your wheels the loss of the full power coming off the crank is sucked up by the stupid torque converter.
See the computer only does what it's programmed to do, the tqconv actually does the work, this is where one of the main problems lie.

But you're right as far as a new Camaro smoking a new Max, the Rustang however, is another story as far as smoking is concerned. The slushstang will have to work to smoke a new max.

Originally posted by maximafever
First off the only model Mustang that will wipe out a Maxima is a Cobra or better such as a special edition like a Saleen. The V6 Mustang would get left easy I know I've done it plenty of times and the GT would make a good race but it will probably loose. The last Mustang I raced the driver asked if my car was turbocharged. I really have a slight problem in believing a race that you have with your cousin mainly because if your family is like my family you stick together and he may loose to help you make your point as it seems that he isn't on the forum letting us know that he has any skills behind the wheel. The Camaro like I said in the post that it was a late model meaning that it was the last bodystyle that came out and the raced surprised me as I said that he should have left me standing still especially since nothing under his hood was stock he said the whole engine was redid with racing mods and like I said my car is completely stock with added weight. If you know how to drive you can drive an auto just as fast as a 5 or 6 speed.

I was doing good staying nice and all, but you my friend dont know jack about cars, straight up, dont know how else to put it, and dont want to get mean, but you should take your clueless newbie ass and find a new forum where Stock V6 Maximas can pick on mid 13 second mustangs because you are one lost SOB.

I believe a 95 Maxima with Intake and exhaust and 5 speed can run a 14.0 flat 1/4 time, but no way do I believe your 95 Maxima with an auto can beat a GT STANG, and that goes for 94+ stangs. I have video of me in my 97 Maxima racing a 98 GT Stang and he beats me pretty good.

As to your stupid comment about my cousin losing to me, I dont think he cares what I look like to a bunch of guys on the net, and just for you, ill put the camera in his car on his tach so you can see it red lineing as I pull away from him.

Originally posted by bk2kmax


It's not only the computer that is causing the delay in the shifting, it's the stupid torque converter as well, the Max by it being set up as a family somewhat luxury cruiser with the automagic is geared through the computer to shift at a slower luxury rate as to act or shift smoothly for that luxury feel and to help on the economy of fuel.
By the time that power is put through the converter and make it to your wheels the loss of the full power coming off the crank is sucked up by the stupid torque converter.
See the computer only does what it's programmed to do, the tqconv actually does the work, this is where one of the main problems lie.

But you're right as far as a new Camaro smoking a new Max, the Rustang however, is another story as far as smoking is concerned. The slushstang will have to work to smoke a new max.

Stock for Stock, after driving both cars, I know a mustang can pull the maxima in a 1/4, however that is a 2002 Maxima with 6 speed and keep in mind this guy thinks a 95 Maxima Auto is beating a stang, a V6 stang is very possible, I handed plenty of 6 cylinder stangs there ass, V8's is another story.

Originally posted by thrasher
I disagree that an auto can be driven as fast as a 5 or 6 speed. The computer can't change gears as fast as a well driven manual can, can't rev during gear changes, plus it has less aggressive gearing due to the fact that it has less gears to work with. You'll be hard pressed to find someone who agrees with you on that point. As far as the Mustangs go, you're right about the GT's, at least older ones, i piss on them all day long. But like JBL85 said, I'm damn sure a Maxima can't hang with a new GT (300+lb-ft.) or a new Camaro (320+lb-ft.). I'm not saying you're lying, i'm saying that a well driven Camaro or Mustang V8 will smoke a brand new 246lb-ft. Maxima, anyday. Believe me, I have one.
:bandit:

To my boi Thrasher, I thought you might want to read this:

Killing the stick-shift dinosaur

Manual transmissions still have their fans, but are they really better? Not anymore. Not really.
December 18, 2002: 11:10 AM EST
By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNN/Money Staff Writer



NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - It was my father, an avid sports car enthusiast, who made sure his kids got the "automatics are for weenies" gospel. And I believed.

Then I began to stray. A few years ago, I got my first car with an automatic transmission.

And I liked it.

So I wondered: Are there really any good arguments for driving a stick shift anymore? I thought there probably weren't. Automatic transmissions are far more sophisticated today than in decades past and the drawbacks that once came with automatics have largely been eliminated. To confirm my suspicions I put in a call to Roger Kwapich, who hosts a syndicated radio program called Consumer Automotive Repair show, better know as the C.A.R. Show.

Taking it one-by-one, let's look at the arguments for sticking with stick-shift driving.

Stick shift saves gas!
Sure, if you drive the way they do in gas mileage tests. Now, let's be really honest with ourselves here. Do you drive that way in real life? If you wanted to drive like your grandmother, you'd have gotten the automatic to begin with. The way people drive in the real world, stick shift saves you nary a drop. In fact, you may actually be getting worse mileage than you would have with the car doing the shifts for you.

With the advent of computer chips, automatics are much better at timing those shifts than they used to be, says Kwapich, Just as with a manual shift, if you don't drive like a fuel-hogging freak your transmission won't either.

It gives me more power!
Opposing viewpoint

Allen Wastler: The stick-shift riff



Once upon time, this was true. But two things have changed: Engines and transmissions. "Cars just aren't underpowered anymore," says Kwapich.

Not too long ago, if your car had an automatic and fewer than eight cylinders -- certainly fewer than six -- your biggest driving thrill was trying to merge onto a highway without getting squashed like a bug on the front bumper of an eighteen-wheeler. These days, having been through energy squeezes and tough competition from the Japanese, even once-wasteful American car makers have learned to wring every pony out of the daintiest little engines.

About the transmissions, see above. Increased efficiency means more engine power goes to moving the car rather than getting sucked away by slow or badly timed shifts. Today's automatic transmissions also offer more flexibility in shift styles. Often, if you want a more power-oriented shifting style you can just press a button.

It's cheaper!
Maybe, but probably not in the long run. If the car you want even comes with a standard transmission the automatic will probably cost you $800 to $900 more, says Joe Cashen, director of pricing for Carsdirect.com. In most cases, you'll get that back when you go to sell the car. The exception, he adds, might be for those cars in which stick-shift is de rigueur, for example a sporty little Mazda Miata.

If you have to look hard for the car you want in stick form, it's probably going to actually cost you money in the long run, he says. If a car company doesn't make many cars of a particular model with a standard transmission it's probably because they know they can't sell them that way. And if very few people want to buy that new family sedan or SUV with stick-shift, you think you're going to do better finding a buyer when you need to sell it? Good luck.

It saves wear on my brakes!
Some stick-shift drivers including CNN/Money's Allen Wastler, insist that stick shifts save them money by allowing them to downshift -- that is, shift into a lower gear to slow the car, something mechanics call "engine braking" -- and save wear on their brakes.

So, let's think this through: We want to save wear on brake shoes, cheap and easily replaceable parts, by transferring that wear and stress to the clutch and the engine. Brake pads are much easier and cheaper to replace than clutches and the added stress on your engine can shorten its life. At best, you're not saving anything. At worst, you could actually be inviting expensive repairs.

It focuses the attention!
Someone driving a stick-shift car is really thinking about driving, the argument goes. He is part of a true man-machine union and is, therefore, more attuned to all aspects of driving, including those aspects involved in not hitting other cars, trees or light posts.

Not having to shift gears certainly does not cause me to forget the fact that I'm driving. There are these aspects called "steering," "accelerating" and "braking" with which I remain intimately involved. And, in a good car, feedback through the steering wheel, pedals and seat remain undiminished. I am no less aware of my vehicle's behavior in any important respect with an automatic transmission.

Then there are those hazards caused by the average person's limited number of arms. Between changing CDs, answering the cell phone, drinking coffee and gesturing out the window at "that moron," do you really need something else that occupies one hand and a leg? Two hands on the wheel may be asking a bit much, but most safety experts do recommend at least one, pretty much at all times.

It's just more fun!
You might have me there. These days there are plenty of cars, more expensive ones mostly, that offer automatics with "clutchless" shifting to give you that heady feeling of gear selection when you want it. But without the clutch, half the fun is gone.

So there really is no easy answer. With modern automotive technology, there's just no good reason to keep shifting gears yourself. But maybe you don't need a good reason. Maybe you just like knowing that you can pick your own gears.


--*Disclaimer

I am not going to get technical, I just dont have time for that, and I am in no means flaming that excellent article, it was very good, but:

We are comparing a Maxima Auto tranny, which IMO and experiences SUCKS, reliable, but granny tranny says it all.

If this car were a BMW M3 with SMG shifting capabilities where not even a .01 of a second is lost in a 1/4 time with professional driver compared to a 6 speed manual tranny, then Auto and Stick wouldnt matter, but the thing is we are comparing a car that costs under 30K to another car that costs under the same.

Originally posted by JBL85
I am not going to get technical, I just dont have time for that, and I am in no means flaming that excellent article, it was very good, but:

We are comparing a Maxima Auto tranny, which IMO and experiences SUCKS, reliable, but granny tranny says it all.

If this car were a BMW M3 with SMG shifting capabilities where not even a .01 of a second is lost in a 1/4 time with professional driver compared to a 6 speed manual tranny, then Auto and Stick wouldnt matter, but the thing is we are comparing a car that costs under 30K to another car that costs under the same.

I understand JB, I just put the article there as a matter of good reading and I was certain it related to some of the more sophisticated autotrannies currently on the market, not the one in the Max.
I know the one in the Max sucks, cause I have one.

Like I said I just thought it was good reading.

Originally posted by JBL85


I was doing good staying nice and all, but you my friend dont know jack about cars, straight up, dont know how else to put it, and dont want to get mean, but you should take your clueless newbie ass and find a new forum where Stock V6 Maximas can pick on mid 13 second mustangs because you are one lost SOB.

I believe a 95 Maxima with Intake and exhaust and 5 speed can run a 14.0 flat 1/4 time, but no way do I believe your 95 Maxima with an auto can beat a GT STANG, and that goes for 94+ stangs. I have video of me in my 97 Maxima racing a 98 GT Stang and he beats me pretty good.

As to your stupid comment about my cousin losing to me, I dont think he cares what I look like to a bunch of guys on the net, and just for you, ill put the camera in his car on his tach so you can see it red lineing as I pull away from him.


I'll put it like this I know my car and what it is capable of and I know my driving and what I am capable of, so for you to tell me what I can and cannot do is stupid. I left you alone when you started this topic about your 2.5 Altima beating an automatic Maxima IMO your full of it. Like I said it is the driver that makes the difference in a race. For example when I was living in Vegas I drove a huge 1983 Oldsmobile Regency V8 5.5L engine, one night I see these two sport cars lining up to race and I decided to see how well my car could keep up with them, not race them but keep up with them. So I got right behind one of the cars and when they took off so did I, needless to say that I did not pass them, but I was right behind them the whole time without them leaving me. The point of that story is to show you that sometimes the impossible can occur, hey you said that your Altima can beat a Maxima, I think that is impossible. If we ever do get a chance to race I hope it is while my car is still stock and I till have my sound system in it and I'll make it a little more fair by adding a full trunk of luggage (since I'll probably traveling from Reno) and about 3 more grown people weighing 150lbs or more for a total of 4 grownups. So you are looking at about 600+lbs of extra weight after all that what I had in my car when I killed that Mustang and unfortunately I don't know if it was a V6 or V8 all I know is he pulled up beside me and rev is engine to challenge me and when the light turned we took off. See I'm not like most people who comee on the forum asking if their car can beat another car, if you challenge me I will take you on and if I lose, which I haven't yet, I'll give you your props and then learn from the race. You defenitly don't want to race my brother he is crazier than I am, if you know anything about traveling from Vegas to Reno it takes about 8hrs the shortest time most people can do it in is 6hrs without stopping to rest or eat. He did that run in 4.5hrs in a Cheverolet Malibu, left Vegas at 2:00pm and arrive in Reno at about 6:30pm even had to make an extra stop because a trucker had a barrel fall off the truck and hit his car so he had to stop to take care of that. It is not a race story but as you can see if you know how to drive you can make any car move fast.

bk2max: and it was good reading at that :D

maximafever: I am not reading your jibberish because its pointless

Hey Jbl, your car sounds kinda tight dog, but we still got to do this. Do you go to any street races, if so pm me because I don't know where all the racers in Compton went.

Hey, is your car a auto or manual transmission?

i beat a GT mustang before and a z28 camaro and a 528 BMW. According to power ratings all 3 of them shoulda beat me. the car that came closest to beating me was the 6 cylinder bimmer. mustangs are slow, a z28 is faster but still slow. the ss camaro's are pretty fast but they only run a 14 second 1/4. not much for 320 hp. i don't know what kind of mustang runs mid 13s. definitely not a gt or lx. a cobra R runs a 13.3 those cost $50,000. The mustang was auto. the z28 and bimmer were 5 speed. The only mustangs i'm hesitant to race are the 5.0's. i've raced one before but it was far from stock and it smoked me.
American cars don't impress me unless they cost $75,000+

AUTO