harley vs. sport bikes

my history teacher rides a big fat yellow harley, and i was reading a magazine about sport bikes in class one day and got into a discussion about which bike is faster in a STRAIGHTLINE. harley vs. sportbike(like a r-6 or something.. or even a gsxr1000).. i dont know much about harleys or sportbikes.. so someone please enlighten me.

The only time a Harley will be faster than a sport bike is right off the line. Harleis have a lot of low end torque that allows them to get off the line pretty quick. But, in about 30 yards or so, the sportbike will overtake the Harley. Even a 600cc sportbike will eat a Harley.

My brther in law has a 1200 Sportster and he weighs about 120 lbs. Occasionaly, he wants to race me on my GSXR1000. He pulls me off the line every time. His sporty has tons of lw end. But once he gets up around 4000 RPM his bike falls on it face and I blow by him like he is standing still.

I had the oppertunity to go up against one of th faster Harlies in the area when I had my GSXR750. The harley was a mid 90s dyna, bored, stroked, lots of head work, and it was on the bottle. They guy that built it knows his stuff and he and his son hold many 1/ 4 mile records. When the light turned green, I got a hell of a launch. When I shifted into 3rd, he was a small spec in my mirror. My bone stock $9000 gsxr completely destroyed a custome built $25000+ Harley.

When it comes to the twisties, the Harleys dont even compare to sportbikes. THe emphasis on cruisers is cruising. Almost none of them can take a turn like a sport bike. The suspension on most Harleys is weak. The forks and shocks are designed to offer a good ride for cruising, they are not meant for taking turns. On my sport bikes, there are turns that I can take at 130, but on my Dyna, 90 is about the limit. Even at 90, it is quite scary. The sad thing is that most aftermarket suspension parts for cruisers are weak. I have yet to see any aftermarket stuff that even comes close to the OEM suspension on sportbikes.

Then there are the brakes.... Almost any sport bike has top notch brakes. The rear brake on sport bikes is almost useless. The only time I really use it is when I am hauling a passenger. The front brakes are capable of flipping the bike foreward if you get on the too hard. The brakes on Harleys are starting to improve. But, they are still about a decade behind. But, that is alright because most Harley riders dont really ride too agresively, so they dont need tremendous stopping power.

thanks for all that info and for reassuring my beliefs.

That's why we call them "Hardley Ablesons" ;)

Sportbikes rule. I miss mine already.

When it comes to Harlies the general rule is they're all show no go. If you're into speed or reliability for that matter stay away from Harlies. If you're into fads or cruisers HD is alright. Harley does build Buells though too for those who prefer sportbikes, the competition from Europe and Asia is still better though compared to this newcomer. I drive a Suzuki 700 Intruder myself, rather have a Hayabusa though. :(

Originally posted by COUNTACH
Harley does build Buells though too for those who prefer sportbikes, the competition from Europe and Asia is still better though compared to this newcomer. (

I think Buells are such a joke. To call them a HD sportbike is the same thing as calling a Titan or a C+C machine a HD custom. Its too different companies. I wish buy would try to sell on thier own instead of tring to ride on HD's coattails.

HD did build a fully faired spotbike for many years. But like in the above quote it couldn't stand up to the competition. They used a liquid cooled 4 vavle race motor that wasn't up to par, this motor BTW is similar to the used being used in the V-Rod. HD I think made it as far as third place one year in all of these years of racing. They stopped racing and gave up on the idea of competing. Too bad I would really like to buy a HD sportbike. Here is a link to the HD sportbike site


http://www.amasuperbike.com/vr/index.htm

THe VR1000 could have been a great bike, except the management of the project was poor. If HD had thrown a little more money and some better people at the program, they would have done a lot better. Too late now.

i have a 95 impala ss, and in the 1/4 mile i can stay next to a harley. i cant do that with a sport bike! you do the math, my impala weight is 4200lbs

the VR1000 is the founding engine and groundwork for the VRod, see the similarity in the name right? Unfortunately harely didnt have the mechanical knowledge to make a sporty engine, so they turned to Porsche to help them. Basically all they did was take a vtwin sportsbike engine and placed it on a light weight cruiser frame. Not to difficult. Now take a look at like the vtx1800, that is a cruiser with crazy power, yet incredible refinement. Sure Honda could have just as easy thrown the RC51 motor on their to make it superfast and make the VRod stand still in a race, however they decided to make the largest displacement vtwin out there, while reducing nearly all the vibration and drivetrain whine and clunks related to your standard vtwin cruiser.

While Harley doesn't make that great of a motorcycle, their PR department deserves the pulitzer prize or something. I have absolutely no idea how they spawned such a image of the harley. And labelling the harley and "all american" bike is rubbish, seeing as how all the exhaust, carbs, and ignition systems are all imported from japan. And not to mention that Honda's motorcycle plant in Ohio actually hires MORE americans then all of Harley does...

Whatever, Harley in its purest form is for the stubborn and ignorant American's.

i'd go for the Sport bike, arent those WAY QUICK!!!

what can they hit in a 1/4 mile??

general statement?
come on...

sport bikes are quick, if you want to know the speed's in the 1/4, go to a manufacturer's website or look around here.

don't post pointless posts.

Originally posted by Silver_GTR34
i'd go for the Sport bike, arent those WAY QUICK!!!

what can they hit in a 1/4 mile??

My firt time down the 1/4 I ran an 11.20 @ 140mph. Considering it was my first time down the strip, I think I did OK. (I was on a mostly stock 01 GSXR 1000, and I weighed over 250 lbs with all the gear on.) I have read of some other guys running stock motored GSXR 1000's and getting in the mid 9's. Although the bikes were lowered and stretched.

11.20 is pretty good. I was running around 11.00 flat at the end of last summer. I had only been to the track three times and had alot of problems with my launch. I hope to get into low tens this year. I was running a sport touring tire that was a touch too hard of compound to grip at launch. This year I'm going to run a softer tire with one tooth up sproket in the rear. I only saw one GSXR1000 running last year. He had the front end strapped down but still had the front tire skimming the ground for about an 1/8 mile. Those short wheelbase litre bikes seem like they had such a hand full to run. My buddy was racing his R1 and could never really break into the 10s.

Ofcourse 'Busa's and Ninja 11's were the fastest bikes. I was the only one there with an XX. I saw a couple of Ninja 12s running but those guys were like me; too much bike for a first time drag run. :(

Hopefully this summer I can post much quicker times:smoka:

So far my best time is 9.79 @ 151mph. This ofcourse was on the bottle, however I know I could drop another half a second if I could get the perfect launch. My first time on the drag strip with my R1 was not my first 1/4 mile drag, my first time was on a gsx1100r, which clocked in at 11.8 @ something. My first time on the R1 I got 10.91, which had made me more then happy at the time. I'm still a little cautious of the launch pad at most drag strips, they are just straight up nasty.

Originally posted by Silver_GTR34
i'd go for the Sport bike, arent those WAY QUICK!!!

what can they hit in a 1/4 mile??

I have an 01 R6, my best time was 11 flat at 123.2 I don't know about that Harley taking you off the line thing, I think you guys need to practice your launches more. ;) Or maybe we need some Harley people who can actually ride around here instead of pose. I've never lost to a Hardley off the line, and that includes tricked out drag Harleys.

Harleys are way safer than sport bikes, the fatality ratio is 10 to 1.

Originally posted by kaoru-tochiro
Harleys are way safer than sport bikes, the fatality ratio is 10 to 1.

That ratio is in inverse for fun, though. Sorry, but squaring my tires is NOT what I spent $100's on them for. Highway riding anyone can do. Changing gears on a real ride is what the REAL fun is.

Yeah, I bet ya do alot of riding, huh?:rolleyes:

Originally posted by kaoru-tochiro
Yeah, I bet ya do alot of riding, huh?:rolleyes:

So girls don't ride huh??? I bet they also don't race or drive standard transmission cars, either. :o

Ignorance is bliss til it bites you in the ass.

Originally posted by saturntangerine


So girls don't ride huh??? I bet they also don't race or drive standard transmission cars, either. :o

Ignorance is bliss til it bites you in the ass.

I didn't say it because you're a girl! Your infiniti did all the talkin. I know plenty of Infinity drivers, their hands are as soft as a baby's behind.
Hey! I'm a Harley guy not a sexist, women that ride are as tough as the men.

I have failed to see anything other than nasty trailer trash women or butch dykes riding Hardley's. lol :finger: I have seen quite a few hotties on sportbikes though. :flash:

Originally posted by OneSicR6
I have failed to see anything other than nasty trailer trash women or butch dykes riding Hardley's. lol :finger: I have seen quite a few hotties on sportbikes though. :flash:

Now that is just mean...:p

LoL, just playin with ya. :D I don't give a shit what anyone rides really, it's THAT you're riding not what you're riding. I personally love custom bikes of all sorts. Especially the shit Jesse James makes, that man is unbelievable.

MY SON'S ABOUT TO TURN 4 AND I'M LOOKING INTO GETTING HIM A SPORT BIKE.....NEED TO FIND A COURSE TO TAKE HIM TO...


ONE THING I CAN'S STAND.....MEN WHO RIDE THEIR BIKES WITH AN OPEN SHIRT AND WOMEN WHO RIDE WITH LIL SHIRTS AND SHORT SHORTS (VIEW AIN'T THAT BA THOUGH:D ) B/C THE OBVIOUSLY DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR SAFETY.....OR THEIR SKIN......MY WIFE'S BEEN THROWN OFF A MOTORCYCLE I THINK TWICE W/O WEARING A HELMET (LEAGL TO RIDE W/O A HELMET IN S.C.) DUE TO AN IGNORANT DRIVER (NOT THE MOTORCYLE DRIVER)....BUT TO EACH HIS OWN....

Yeah, when I see them so bare that makes me cringe when I think what could happen if they fell and slidd 100 feet on the tarmack.:eek: :silly2:

Originally posted by OneSicR6
I have failed to see anything other than nasty trailer trash women or butch dykes riding Hardley's. lol :finger: I have seen quite a few hotties on sportbikes though. :flash:

:angel: Luv ya, Steve.

As for my Infiniti, I do most of the work on it and that which I am not totally confident on my dad gives me a helping hand. All Infiniti G20's are is a Nissan Sentra SE-R with leather... which I don't even like. I bought it on a whim for a great price and it's yet to really fail me. ;)

My Suzuki GS500 on the other hand was just a disappointment b/c it had NO power.

But like Onesic said, it really is mostly if you ride anything. I just like to support my side. Representing my "groupies". :p

Originally posted by kaoru-tochiro
Harleys are way safer than sport bikes, the fatality ratio is 10 to 1.

I read in Motorcyclist last year that the cruisers were actually ahead in crash damage because all the "born again bikers" that were returning to the sport after a 10-20 year hiatus. Ofcourse sportbikes were a real close second. I still feel what you said is correct.

Not to upset anyone...
But I think the main reason is the speed or lack of on a cruiser bike. Because of the handling,seating postion, underpowered brakes and lack of wind protection I often find myself at most posted speeds. I have ridden a few HDs and feel a little nervous with them when going through the twisties at an accerlated pace. The exception was the T-Sport I had for an afternoon. That bike and the Valk really surprised me as far as handling ( both bikes are really great at sweepers- tight turns you still have to sloooow down for. ) I still don't like the braking on most of those bikes. In this day and age I think all the big cruisers should come standard with dual discs and a decent touring/sport-touring tire, such as the Dunlop 206 or the wonderful 220s.


as far as girls riding.... I know a few girls and only one chooses a cruiser, the rest all want sportbikes. Here is a like to my friend Nikki's website. http://www.1fastchick.com/

Sport Bikes- Flat out performance
Harlies- Style and speed

I would take either

http://www.frontierchevy.com/96%20Harley%20Davidson%20Heritage%20small.jpg

http://www.motorsports-network.com/kawasaki/02mc/Photos/zx1212.jpg

Well, despite common folklore, harley's are quite slow. My little 750cc cruiser has no time mopping up Harleys that are twice that engine. And top end? mine tachs out at 140, harleys at 115. Harley's are good at being show bikes, because the amount of chrome you can get for them is about on que with the amount you dressup items for a 350 chevy.

But a very nice choice as far as sportbikes, I am actually considering upgrading to the ZX-12R and putting on the Muzzy 1240cc big bore kit and say hi to 200+rwhp all day.

I think most peole will agree with me that something doesnt have to be fast to be enjoyable.

Originally posted by JDM_USA
I think most peole will agree with me that something doesnt have to be fast to be enjoyable.

Sportbike riders aren't "most people". :p I'm not even THAT much of a speed demon, but I damn near got caught yesterday riding at about 85 in a 45. It was a wide-open, back country road, and there hadn't been a speed limit posted in quite a while. Next thing I know, I see a state trooper coming the other way and a new sign ahead that was for 50mph.... Yeah, I was going fast, but I wasn't outrageous. It was fast enough. Yeah, I also do my fair share of "cruising" but it still is usually at least 5mph over the set limit. That's the whole purpose for bikes, to have the ability to lean and really dig into the road instead of just rolling along on top of it.

Originally posted by JDM_USA
Harlies- Style and speed


I think most peole will agree with me that something doesnt have to be fast to be enjoyable.

Ofcourse it doesn't have to be super fast to be enjoyable, part of being on a motorcycle is intoxicating enough I could ride around Tortilla Flats (anything but flat) on a pocketbike and still be happy. However, for it to be enjoyable to me, I need to be able to ride a long ways without being fatigued from being vibrated to near death. But alas, Harleys seem to depend on their odd ignition system to make the potato sound everybody seems to think is cool. And if people had harley's and not for the speed, then why do so many people by S&S engines or strokers, etc? A big part of owning a motorcycle is the rush from having a nice power/weight ratio, allowing you to out accelerate most cars on the street. Oh, and there is absolutely no feeling like cutting a line through a turn that as you come in too hot and am wondering how much insurance you have, just to ride it out and wonder how Rossi does it.

whats that website that has all the sport/touring bikes and their 1/4? I searched the forum and I can't seem to find it...

I don't think something has to be fast, but it sure helps. Not, to mention the cornering, and quickness of a sportbike. I think the worst thing about harleys is the people who ride them. Just because you ride a Hardly Dangerous you suddenly feel the need to be rude to everyone? Ha. It's pathetic.

my dad rides a harley n they r definitely not made for speed, they cruise, the only ones that could beat an R1 or hayabusa is like a nitroharley. harleys rnt made for acceleration newayz, sport bikes are

Yeah I think Harley's are just for cruisin too, but I do know some dude that has a bunch of engine work and a bottle of nos strapped to his harley. It's pretty freakin fast but I dunno if it can step to a Busa. As for the girl riders - I think that's hot! That's sweet that chicks can ride bikes to but I think the next step for them is stunting! I know of a few chicks that can do some cool stuff but I have yet to see a big ole wheelie. I'm sure it's been done. So if you have any videos, post them up!

MOst of your are right in that Harley's are all show and no go....from the sportbike point of veiw that is especielly true when you consider that you are on a faster bike...but, in fear of being stereotypical, the people riding harley davidson motorcyclees arent the same type of people generally as people on sport bikes....Now i know if people ever look at these postings and find what im saying, someone is going to tell me about how there dad rides a yamaha royal star or there an 18 year old who loves there honda shadow....and the one idiot who tells me about there 71 year old grandfather on the ducati doesnt need to even reply. HD is heavily backed by a growing number of people because of ideas behind it....american made heavy metal that can be enjoyed and looked at for years and yeasr(with a few tune ups to get us by the dull points) We are stubborn and iggnorant, but we stand by something.....and yes, i called it american made, some companies have more employees, but these bikes are hand built(not hand made) on an assembly line, like many of the american made cars, sure some parts are made elsewhere, but theres nothing family and holesome about japanesse companies(i know, i live here)

Harley for life, thats how we like it

i dunno guys, i think that buells are the best of both worlds, i could be wrong, seeing as i dont know specific numbers, or have any experience, but from all the people ive talked to, the buells are very excellent machines. i talked to one of my girlfriends guy pals, and he has a buell, he said he raced three friends on jap bikes (dont know models) through the pass over beartooth mountains, from yellowstone into redlodge. and when he got back, he had time to order a burger at the red boxcar before they drove by. in fact, the kawasaki dealer in redlodge drives a buell lol. there may be faster bikes, but everyone ive talked to says that for fun riding, its hard to beat a buell. ive also seen a X1 pushing 130hp at the rear wheel weighing only 350 odd lbs. dunno bout bikes, but in a car that power to weight ratio would be pretty darn fast.

buell's are sort of neat looking bikes i guess, and sound nice because they are vtwins... but they are very far from fast. A good rider could ride a 250nighthawk through twisties faster then other people.

Oh, and also search for buell on this message board, you will find a absolutely wonderful (and lengthy) post about how prone they are to breaking down and having recalls.

holy crap i am not reading this r-1rider gave buell two compliments. wow :eek: i think i am going to go downstairs and hide because i didnt think this day would come until the end of the world :icon16:

oh please do not get me wrong, i think they are horrible motorcycles.

lmao blunt and to the point eh :) kick ass. oh and i ahve to say, i never thought id see the day i saw a crotch rocket fan who so deeply loathes rice rockets. very odd indeed. the two sound exactly the same ;) at least to me. im curious though, whats your view of the Ducati monster ???? cuz the buell kicked its ass ;)

lmao blunt and to the point eh :) kick ass. oh and i ahve to say, i never thought id see the day i saw a crotch rocket fan who so deeply loathes rice rockets. very odd indeed. the two sound exactly the same ;) at least to me. im curious though, whats your view of the Ducati monster ???? cuz the buell kicked its ass ;)

There are very few ducati models that impress me as well. If you want to see a simply sexy motorcycle, go look for the 2002 mv agusta senna. the ONLY twin performance bikes I would ever consider buying are the rc51 and the 2004 aprilia mille r.

anyway the X1 has 100hp and 90ftlbs (crank) but without the rev capabilities of a twin sportbike, and also weighs over 450lbs DRY.

Not a flickable bike, but as I said, anybody who can ride really good can make any bike fast in the twisties. I had a hard time keeping up with my older friend when we would go through the twisties, he used to race benellis when he was young.... oh, he was grinding the tailpipe on his suzuki 1500 intruder through the turns.

not a flickable bike????? everything i have ever read or heard about a buell raves about how flickable they are, they admittedly are not in the leage of a hybusa in the straits or anything, but they are designed to be corner carvers, especially the new XB12R and XB12S.

oh and i went back and found the post on the recals you were talking about. and as a dealership technition, those recalls dont really faze me, aside from the ones dealing with the rear swing arm and shock mount. if you had any idea how many recalls are out on cars and trucks fresh of the showroom floor, it would make you terrified to go out on the road. and to say that its a big deal that it was buells entire model lineup, they make three bikes. lol. its not like a 12-20 model lineup that all have problems. also as an engineering major, i have to ask, has anyone on here tried to design a performance motorcycle???? im just saying, its an extreamly complex deal, and problems are expected. but i do have to admit, the one about the swing arm and shock mount are eye opening. ill have to make sure any buell i buy will have had that recall done. or ill have to get it done before i ride it.

OK, i will say it again, the 12r is not a flickable bike, it is heavy and most the weight is too high. I have riden a couple buells before, and was very far from deeming them a satisfying streetfighter styled bike. They are PLAGUED with problems, the recalls are not something that has a very random tendency to go bad, there have been significant problems with buells having very faulty parts.

When you look at the same year generation of sport twins from japan, you can see the refinement in absolutely everything about the bike. When you are like buell and do not compete in the WSB or AMA, your motorcycle devolepment team is not under any stress to develop the absolute best motorcycle they can produce. That is the difference between buell and other jap twins. I would love to be able to buy an american made product and be confident in its ability as a motorcycle to function, however with a buell it is far from that.

no pressure, and yet they are coming out with revolutionary ideas such as a frame/fuel tank, swing arm/oil tank, and a rim mounted brake rotor to reduce the flex felt during hard braking. im just saying, that when you are trying to make something so different, you are bount to hit problems. there is a new car upon which i work, that is soon to have a recall on the steering column, because the power asist, can turn off, and make it impossible to turn the wheel. hows that for loosing control. i dunno man, everyone is intiteld to their opinon, and its obvious what yours is, but its not gosple. i have not heard many bad things about the bikes from any compairson i have read, or magazine articals, or reviews. to be completely honest, sounds like you just like imports, and bash the buell cuz youve had a bad experience. kinda the same way i bash import cars and mustangs. could be wrong, but just how i see it. no offence intended.

oh and i have to agree that the X1 is larger than i thought at 440lbs.and therefore probly not as flickable as a smaller import bike, but the XB12R is only 395lbs, is designd to have the lowest center of gravity that it can, and has been praised as suceeding at these tasks in every review i have read. 103hp and 84lbs feet are pretty impressive to me, i dunno man, that sounds like a pretty hot bike no matter how you cut it. and it does look cool dont it :)

I have never had a bad experience with buell, I never owned one so its problems never really affected me (although when a friend couldnt go riding because his buell was in the shop, it did affect me). All in all I tend to be biased by motorcycle companies previous mistakes, and have to be shown that they are taking drastic changes to try and combat any more defects in their products. Look at ford, I will never buy a ford either. I worked at my uncles auto damage appraisal business for awhile, and we saw ford (cars) going to the shop left and right for being just pieces of shit. The same concept goes for buell, originating from harley, since untill just a few months ago buell was still a subsidized company of harley, however since then they have branched away. You are right, ofcourse there are going to be problems when you are trying to come out with revolutionary ideas, but why do you they feel the need to come out with these ideas? Obviously there is not good charachteristics to be gained from doing this, otherwise it would be more adopted. When I look at buell's design, from just many years of automechanics and simple engineering knowledge, I can see parts and designs just ready to break. And when I am on a motorcycle, the absolute last thing I want is to not have complete and total faith in my motorcycle.

And you are right, 100hp and 85ftlbs (at the crank, 90rwhp 74ftlbs) would be a good amount of power, if it didnt make that power at 5000 rpms. An engine that is not capable of revving very high makes considerable less power than an engine capable of high revs. Just imagine this as well, a engine that makes 100hp and 5000rpm and is geared at 1:1 (every rotation of the wheel is 1 rotation of the crank), now take a engine that makes 50hp at 10000rpm, this engine can be geared 1:2 (every rotation of the wheel is 2 rotations of the crank), now this engine will be at double the engine revolutions, however since it is geared basically in half you are technically doubling your horsepower. So again, the bikes do have good dyno power, however on a track, the lowend torque may save you from downshifting sometimes into turns, but the lack of topend kills it on the straights.

btw, aircooled sportbikes? rofl what a joke, would love to see that bike keep up with me on the track for a few laps without overheating (sure the electric fan works around town, on a track its a completely different issue). The clutch basket on the buells are not well made and you often hit false neutrals between higher gears, and I don't even need to comment on their gearboxes.

I think one of the biggest problems most people have with it is when people go into turns to fast and have no way of getting out of them. When you enter a turn too fast, you have to be able to break and maintain your lean through the turn. Every buell I have ridden had a horrible tendency to kick you back up out of your lean, making your turn to wide. Turning alone on the xb is hard enough when you always have to keep pushing on the inside bar to keep you leaned over, its basically impossible to stick a line through turns on the bike.

OK enough of my talking about the bike, if you think that this is the bike for you, then by all means get it, but please do research on other machines first and make an educated decision on what you want, dont just buy something because you think it is cool and the best out there, because a buell is very very far from that.

just to throw out, im not at all trying to down you, i know that you are very knowledgeable as to what you are talking about, as i am with the automotive feild, and i do appriciate being informed as to the possible downfalls of the bike, and definately to the situations with the swing arm and rear shock mount as it was the first i had heard about them.

as far as the problems from innovation, id think that someone as into import sport bikes as you would be praising them for making forward progress. without the types of performance innovations buell is trying to make work, you would still be riding a single cylender bycycle styled motorcycle on dirt tracks, if you were riding a bike at all. there is always the drive to make something new, to improove upon what exists. that is what drives the world of both motorcycles and automobiles.

as far as hp per rpm's, and the gearing from that, i agree, if you were building a pro-race bike, or top end rocket, that would be how you would do it. i suppose that is where our differences come from. ive always been the dukes of hazard redneck. love standing acceleration, stoplight to stoplight runs, quarter mile times. ive never condoned top end runs on the street, no place to safely do it. and im not talking about personal safty, ive never worried myself about the possiblity of becoming a greasy spot on the road somewhere, but the thought of taking an innocent family in a minivan with me, terrifies me. so whats the point of having something like a turbo hybusa capible of 200+ mph, if im never gonna use it. id rather have the low end power so that i could feel the massive acceleration and power from a dead stop. just personal taste i guess.

on the subject of gettnig the bike, i do appricate the help on the recalls and such, and i will take your advice with alot of seriousness. but i do think what it boils down to is a difference in taste. i guess growing up in a harley family, and wanting speed, leaves me with few choices, and the buell is the only one that fits the bill, even if it does wind up being the end of me. but hell man, better to die at speed, adrenaline pumping, than an old man pissing in a bedpan. ride safe man.

Well spoken, my friend. :) All it ever boils down to is that we ride.

Yes, in the end all it comes down to is riding, have fun and be safe whichever bike your leg swings over.

thanx guys, im sure ill be back for more advice, and perhaps some light hearted debates ;)

Not to start any arguements here, everyone has an opinion, but I for 1 prefer a Harley and i'd like to post a few additions to other peoples replies. If you go to not all, but many legit 1/4 mile racing tracks, you will see mostly Harley's and if you go to round tracks mostly Jap bikes, if you are into racing then you should buy a Jap bike or a European bike, but if you want to cruise - well you would be hard pressed to beat a Harley, one thing, I did read a post here that said something about speed, well I have gotten my Harley around 140 mph, but really I mostly cruise and it is true with the turns, but the answer is the wheel base, on sport bikes you have a shorter wheel base you can actually turn the handle bars at high speed, on Harley you more or less lean, I agree with the price being outrageous and some parts being made in Japan and all, but the mystic is still there, i've rode jap bikes and european bikes, I had a mini bike as a kid and then went to suzuki, honda, yamaha, norton and harley and nothin feels like a harley, also harley bought out buell, so actually it is a harley, if you buy it in a harley shop its harley, also with the mystique come the money, if you want a harley you may spend 2 or 3 times as much as you would spend on a jap bike, well the resale value is quite high too, so if you do dish it out, expect to get it back even 10 or 20 or 30 years later, thats the thing, if you spend 15 grand on a jap bike, don't expect much in return, just look through the classifieds. But if you are into speed and like to do wheelies and burnouts and tricks, then you can't go wrong with a crotch rocket bike, one other thing though, Harleys are bottom heavy - more for cruisin - you can take both hands off the handlebars and cruise. As I said though some people prefer Honda's or Yamaha's or Suzuki's, but one thing I see more and more of is Harley look alike's, now I wonder why is that? What is that saying?

70% of all motorcycles sold in the US are cruisers, wouldn't it be stupid if they didn't copy a bit of Harley if they were to play the market in the US?

First of all, it's Japanese bikes, not Jap bikes. I feel the term "Jap" used to be derogatory. Secondly, who the hell pays $15K for a Japanese bike? A brand-new Hayabusa costs less than $10K. Secondly, sportbikes can't be used for cruising? I'll take that anyday than deafen my ears. And people who own sportbikes usually have multiple bikes. Within 5 years or so, they sell it and get a new one, or keep it and get a new one. They're so affordable, one does need to spend $30K just to keep one bike for 10 years. You also see Harley-look alikes by these companies because people have differing taste, but these bikes are much more reliable and inexpensive. As for drag VS track(twisities) argument, well the analogy goes somehing like this:

Harleys: Posing

Sportbikes: Speed

I don't believe 1/4 mile straight strip is any form of racing, just 1 guy or at most 2, trying to find out how fast they can shift and reach the other line.

First of all Japanese bikes are awsome, a hayabusa does cost 15K but in canadian funds, and its true the 1/4 M drag strip is not really a true race, it's for hic's with small weiners and big engines, heh heh, naww it's alright, but I'd take the track full of twistys anyday!

Dude, he's in US, why would he be referring to Canadian currency?

i dunno i'm from canada an i didn't know he was from US sorry bout that