Shifting

Im new to the racing scene and i was just wandering how everyone shifts.....Power or whatnot ....Just curious to how everyone else is doing it??:alien:

:sun:


If you have a good clutch and can shift really quickly go for the power shift but if you have even a slight slip you will have to try for the conventional quick shift. The most imbarassing thing is a burnt out clutch sliping as you power from 1st to 2nd belive me ive tried it

On my race car there is a 3 speed transmission. It has a Tripple plate Racing Clutch. We shift normaly. Usually we can go in the pace lapes in 3rd gear and don't have to worry about shifting.

heh sorry but what does power shifting meen?

Too be able to shift without using the clutch and doing it quick.

you would have to match the rev if you dont use the clutch, and isn't it kinda bad for your transmition?

Very good for your transmission as long as you do it right. Rev matching is how you're SUPPOSED to shift in the first place:)

Yep, be carful not to rev it too hard. Thats hard on those timing chains and belts :)

In order to do that you have to enter the RPM stage where you can shift without a clutch. Otherwise you can just rip off everything you got. So you have to hear the moment. But if you trained good enough, you can shift real fast with the clutch. My legs are trained. So i dont get a burnout while getting to the second :)
My grandpa back in russia used to make money by helping road drivers with bad tranny to get home. He could switch gears without clutch. And he was getting good tips :)

So how do u "rev match" or know when to power shift? Listen? Feel?

basicly know what your car is at when its at maximum torque, when you know that, thats when you know the feel and the sound....it varies from car to car. You need to know your car...
Brian

Alright, thanks. Now I just need a dyno sheet and a look at the torque curve. Of course, I don't intend upon power shifting right away.

Don't recommend you do either. Power shifting takes time to learn. Best way to go about learning is having somone w/experience in the car w/you.
Brian

Originally posted by Fragment Ideas
Im new to the racing scene and i was just wandering how everyone shifts.....Power or whatnot ....Just curious to how everyone else is doing it??:alien:

BTW, when I'm on tarmac, I use the "Heel/Toe" method.:D
Brian

Before I forget, Vyacheslav, you might have an avatar problem. Moderators will not like that. They may like the picture, but you know the rules;) I use the "Heel/Toe" method
Not a bad method. I don't like being self-conseeded, but im so good now I don't need to use the clutch and Im one fast speed shifter in town.:D

Originally posted by Scott 02

Not a bad method. I don't like being self-conseeded, but im so good now I don't need to use the clutch and Im one fast speed shifter in town.:D

lol...try me on the dirt sometime. You race road, and I race amature rally cross, 2 different worlds. BTW: We're in the same town, lol, so racing wouldnt be that hard.;)
Brian

Racing wouldn't be hard. I got an automatic car though....I could always us my friend 5speed Escort..:D I race Ashpalt.....My race car is a 3speed.

LOL...I DONT race road...lol....Theres nothing like the feeling of sliding sideways at high speeds on gravel and snow.
Brian

LOL...I DONT race road...lol....Theres nothing like the feeling of sliding sideways at high speeds on gravel and snow.
Its fun, What do you race anyway and were is it raced at?

My team is based in Akron, we do alot of In-Ohio rally stuff. Our cars are 93' Toyota GT-Four's...love em. I'ts basicly like WRC, places are chosen and we drive.
Brian

Brian, Stop down to our shop some evening....Sounds interesting. Ok we better stop post whoring now.:D

Post Whore.

I could always us my friend 5speed Escort..

You gave my car some respect. I know that you know what it will do.:D

I couldnt drive an Escort unless it was a Cosworth....;)
Brian

You gave my car some respect. I know that you know what it will do. :hehehe: :hehehe: :hehe: :hehe: :lol2: :lol2: :jumpie: :jumpie: :hehehe: :hehehe: OH OH please Steve, don't make me laugh anymore....:flipa:

Hmmmm, the SAAB 96 and the Sonnet (if anybody remembers those models) had a freewheel in the transmission, letting off of the gas, even just a little, had the same effect as using the clutch, you shifted gears and stepped on the gas, once the revs matched up the free-wheel would engage again and you'd be on your way. Speed shifting isn't too hard to learn, I know that there were plenty of people who owned VW beetles (the air-cooled ones aka. real ones) who'd speed shift all the time.

what i minute
power shifting is shifting without using the clutch at al --;;??

how is that possible
explain this process haha

first off this thread was dead for 2 months.

secondly, it is possible. you shift without pushing in the clutch by matching revs and knowing when to do it. dont do it if you dont know how to, you will trash your car.

*shrug* once the light turns green, the pedal goes to the floor and doesn't leave. I just put the clutch in 1/4 of the way in-between shifts.

if your really into the race, and dont mind wear on your clutch and tranny, only putting the clutch in a little bit will slow your time not accerating down a little bit. but id rather not ruin my $h!t

So are you saying don't use the clutch at all, keep doing what im doing, or use more clutch? (I run the 1/8 if it makes any diff.)

Im not quite following what you guys are saying.....what do you mean "DONT USE THE CLUTCH"? You cant just switch between gears without depressing the clutch pedal. :confused:

i use the damn clutch... i don't think it'd be any faster not too... i just don't understand when you guys say "you just gotta match the revs" WTF are you talking about??
not tryin to be a dick, it's just no one can seem to explain anything past "you gotta match the revs"

First off i'm no expert and you should not take what i say to heart. I just ahve a general idea of it, but i've never tried it out, so basicly don't trust what i am saying here it is just aguideline till someone with more exp tells you.

Power shifting is shifting without depressing the clutch pedal, how is it done? You guessed it, by matching the revs.

Okay to do it, assuming you redline at appx 8000 rpms you will accelerate until you hold your rpms steadily at 5000rpms, then for a split second take your foot off the gas and upshift at the same time then mash the gas again.

There you have it, essntialy what you are doing is grinding the gears, your just doing it at a more combfortable position for the gears.

It is also possible to downshift without the clutch but that gets more involved.

Anyways, practice on your best friends car before going for it on your own.

i tried doing some of this stuff. but no not right after i read this. i did this ever since i got my accord in 2000. then i sold it, anyway.

if you want to try this then do it this way, first off let me say dont try this from 3rd into 4th, and 4th into 5th.--->not good. anyway, first try driving around and taking your car out of gear with out the clutch. but take it out of gear only at the same time you let go off the gas after accelarating, if your car is engine braking DONT take it out of gear with out the pressing down the clutch. then after ur used to that slowly take ur car up to around 4000 rpms in 1st gear, the take it out of first and gently push it towards 2nd, dont force it in. just wait as ur rpms go down, ur revs match and it just slides ointo second, just like in sex dont force it in. if it grinds then ur revs didnt match perfectly, try doing it again if it still does that then u most likely have a bad clutch or a bad tranny.

I actually don't really race.....I haven't been thrown the chance yet and maybe I won't....bad place to get found.....but I drive with a combination of drift and touring.....very fun, and fast......I like the dirt and I like the pavment.....and I will race anyone on any surface(might not win...not trying to sound head strong)....and to the whole power shifting topic....I power shift every once in a great while....if you are so in touch with your car that you can feel when to shift by rev you can shift more efficiently with the cluch and do less damage.....try it sometime.....do a comparison....bet you will beleive me

hey im only 15 but i no alot bout cars n work on muh friends all the tyme but u can try powershiftin n c if it makes a big dif. to u but u gotta decide wuts more important wuld u rather have speed but a shitload of wear n tear or less wear n tear but not as much speed (muh friend is used to 6 speed n he was drivin a 5 speed n he powershifts n instead of goin into 6th gear...ya..reverse...the gearbox went flyin out the back)

you are completely retarted.
there is entirely NO WAY a car going the speeds neccesary to go in 5th gear would go into reverse.
ever heard of SYNCHROS???!!!
and to think of the gearbox literally flying out of a car is too funy to comment on.
so I will.
The worst case scenario would be to destroy the internals, and at a very big stretch, to have the driveshaft break free.
oh, and veilside is the most retarted company known to man, they are like APC, except they charge more and look worse.
pwnage? yes.

Power shifting and floating are one in the same.

But when I think of power shift, I think of more rip ems.

You mean that gearbox went flying back?, that is kinda odd because the transmission would probably be blowned and it wouldn't fly back. :screwy:

Yeah that is definitely BS i was driving down the beltway the other night and went from 4th to Reverse.......only thing that happend was i got a grind and the gears wouldnt mesh, startled the shit out of me but there is NO possibility of putting in reverse from those revs........plain idiocy.....If you know so much about cars please take some time out to learn a little bit about typing..........

It would be a grind in the gears because if you go from 4th gear then it will probably grind or possibly be blown but if any gear higher than 4th then for sure your transmission will be blown.

no it wouldnt be blown because you can not possibly get the gears to mesh from fourth or fifth gear into reverse......at most you might be able to push it in from 2nd.....this is from firsthand experience

the kids probably in jr high still.

no it wouldnt be blown because you can not possibly get the gears to mesh from fourth or fifth gear into reverse......at most you might be able to push it in from 2nd.....this is from firsthand experienceok, thanks for the information but that would be nonsense if the gearbox would fly back.

okay ladies and gentalmen shiting without the clutch for newbies


in going from 1st to 2nd gear you have to change from one gear to the other...synchros make the transition quicker and smoother
have you ever noticed when your driving along and the faster and harder you shift between gears the more resistance? thats because the synchros are working over time to synch up the gears into alignment hence reeming you into the next gear

shifting without the clutch simply involves letting the engine rpms die until it slips FREELY into gear

a way to find the correct rpms in a 5 speed is as follows (not to scale)
say your in 3rd gear doing 30mph and you shift into 4th..look at your rpms after youve shifted and notice they are about 500rpm lower then earlier...simply shift it back into 3rd and the instant your rpms are at that SAME point pull back on the shifter and put it into gear
it should be a smooth slightly quick action timeing is EVERYTHING
to improve on shifting without the clutch if you feel ANY resistance your rpms were off..it may be 1rpm off but YOU ARE STILL OFF it should slip in like a hot knife through butter


for those who dont belive shifting without the clutch being depressed are simply idiots who dont know enough about their car

as for powershifting during a race ive attempted and failed although this dosnt mean its not possible..im simply lacking

ive managed to be a lucky one to witness a tranny dropping when the driver accidently shifted into reverse at 60mph
for obvious reasons it would be extremely difficult to do and in most cases require an extreme about of pressure dont try at home/track/etc

seemingly most people tend to forget about that grinding sound as your attempting to force it into gear..the unsynchroed gears are clashing against eatch other and wearing away parts of the metal if spikes or slivers given the right time and pressure could cause the gear to fully engage such pressure would undoubtedly exceed the tranny mounting bolts and would (hopefully) fall freely from the car
seemlying that would be much more difficult in a fwd car hence the transmission is bolted directly to the engine and there are motor mounts holding them down but that dosnt mean it wouldnt cause irreversible damage to quite a few things in the engine

hope this clears some things up

for the powershifting tutorial visit www.howstuffworks.com and check out the transmission in the auto section..should make more sense

Me likey clutch.

All I'm sayin.

Very good for your transmission as long as you do it right. Rev matching is how you're SUPPOSED to shift in the first place:)

VERY GOOD FOR YOUR ENGINE?!?!?!

HAH!

Would you mind explaining to me why power shifting is good for your car.

i think the fact there's a smiley on the end of that sentence
AND
the fact that this is the RACING section is kinda pointing that it's an in-joke.
y'know, a little dig from the real racing drivers at the wannabes...

Isnt powershifting shifting without releasing ur gas.

you are completely retarted.
there is entirely NO WAY a car going the speeds neccesary to go in 5th gear would go into reverse.
ever heard of SYNCHROS???!!!
and to think of the gearbox literally flying out of a car is too funy to comment on.
so I will.
The worst case scenario would be to destroy the internals, and at a very big stretch, to have the driveshaft break free.
oh, and veilside is the most retarted company known to man, they are like APC, except they charge more and look worse.
pwnage? yes.
I know its a old post but I don't care to be honest I just wanna clear this up. I meant he was used to a 5 speed and was driving 4 speed so so sorry for my error. Ya and considering its a 4 speed I would think it was in a older car (without synchros) and I wouldn't think the tranny mounts are in exactly the greatest condition. Oh ya I am in high school big fucking whoop I still seen it happen.

I know this is an old thread, but the last three pages were the most retarded posts I've ever read. Dick-fighting with empty hands...
Rev-matching really does exist, and shifting without using the clutch really is possible, and it's not supposed to do any damage to your engine/tranny if you're doing it right.
Powershifting....well...that's where I'm gonna shut up before I stick my foot in my mouth.

Rev-matching really does exist, and shifting without using the clutch really is possible, and it's not supposed to do any damage to your engine/tranny if you're doing it right.

Not that I want to get into this discussion again but OF COURSE IT DOES. All the transmissions in the WRC do not require clutch engagement (Unless it's from 1st to 2nd).

-Brian

BTW, when I'm on tarmac, I use the "Heel/Toe" method.:D
Brian

How are you associating Heel-Toe with Power Shifting? :screwy:

Power Shifting is for when you're upshifting. You use Heel-Toe in conjunction with rev matching and/or double clutching when downshifting.

Theres nothing like the feeling of sliding sideways at high speeds on gravel and snow.
Brian

In your FWD Lude? :screwy:

My team is based in Akron, we do alot of In-Ohio rally stuff. Our cars are 93' Toyota GT-Four's...love em. I'ts basicly like WRC, places are chosen and we drive.
Brian

Uhh... GT-Four's never made it to the US.

I speed shift (the terms power / speed are confusing and used interchangeably) when i race. I keep my foot on the gas while i shift.

isnt that way bad for the clutch? not lettin go of the gas and clutchin? i've seen REAL racers fo that to cars, Best Motoring Videos, buttta, im not to sure about doin it as a starters...

Wow ... a lot of misguided info in here.

This is accurate:
Power Shifting is for when you're upshifting. You use Heel-Toe in conjunction with rev matching and/or double clutching when downshifting.

People are also confusing terms in here.
Power and/or speed shifting is not clutchless-shifting.

I do not recommend clutchless shifting and it is (more or less) pointless with modern syncronized transmissions.

Power/speed shifting, staying on throttle while shifting, I do recommend IF:
*you are not over powering traction in the next gear
*you are confident that you can shift fast and accurately

I speed shift 3rd-->4th all the time while hill climbing and drag racing and it makes a huge difference, especially in my turbo car. I do not loose boost or momentum on the shift. Getting off throttle would lose both.

There is in-car video on my site of me drag racing is you want to see (or more importantly hear) the difference of my first 2 shifts and then my last WOT shift ... or you could just buy my video linked in my siggy and watch it all on DVD *shameless plug*

It's not bad for the clutch it's "bad" (supposedly) for the transmission, but I've have 3 cars & I street race all the time, I've had the tranny's for 2-3 years & no tranny problems.