2002 windstar adjust strut towers ??

had my steering rack replace by ford cause leaking,got a call from them that it needed alignment ,strut towers were out of alignment, $59.95 for alignment and $149.95 for caster & camber adjustment ,was told they had to drill the pins out and would take 3 hours so i said OK ,got home went to look were they drill out the pins and couldn't find were it was done look at the service manual and on top of the strut tower is a u shape plate that there is welded to the frame 4 spots weld have to be drill out make adjustment then drill 3 holes and install pop rivet,is the only way to adjust strut tower,i look at the 4 spot weld on top of the strut tower and it still had the 4 weld spot not drill out so i say they didn't do the alignment like they said ,before i go back and say something i want to make sure I'm correct about this,

thank you frank

Sound like from what the manual said you should be right. I would go back with manual or copy and ask to show what work was done. On your bill should have mechanics name. Ask for service manager not service rep that helped you.I have
friend who works for Ford right now at my local dealer and he told me that some have been showing work done that was never done. Of course if they get caught they get fired.But if no one the wiser than they get away with it. Hopefully the service manager is not in on this. They make there money not only by turn over but also buy customer satisfaction if they fail at one or both they are most of the time replaced.."COMPLAINTS"..The service manager at my local dealership always asked how every thing went and if I am happy with there service..But thats here and they have another Ford dealership to compete with..

This is a PRIME example of how a good repair manual is a good thing to have even if you DON'T do any of the work on your vehicle.
You can look up what is involved in a job, and often catch on when they are trying to fleece you.
I believe that most people are honest, but the few that lack personal integrity ruin the trust that people have in all car repair shops.

just installed new tires on this ,old one were dry roted going back to ford on sat for recall install and will ask about alignment work done,will report back the result

thanks frank
great site with plenty of info and great people

This is really quite a simple issue. If the car needed a caster/camber adjustment that required drilling out the welds, you have to pay for it and you would see the welds drilled out. If they didn't have to drill out the welds, then the caster/camber was either within spec, or they charged you to do the work and didn't do it. Either way, you should demand your money back.

This is really quite a simple issue. If the car needed a caster/camber adjustment that required drilling out the welds, you have to pay for it and you would see the welds drilled out. If they didn't have to drill out the welds, then the caster/camber was either within spec, or they charged you to do the work and didn't do it. Either way, you should demand your money back.
Just a curiosity question, how come that the camber/caster has to be adjusted after a rack & pinion ( or tir rod end) replacement ? It is just normal
to correct the toe in/ toe out, but I don't understand why the camber/caster
has to be corrected? Please let me know.

Just a curiosity question, how come that the camber/caster has to be adjusted after a rack & pinion ( or tir rod end) replacement ? It is just normal
to correct the toe in/ toe out, but I don't understand why the camber/caster
has to be corrected? Please let me know.


Hi

For what it is worth, my '96 on a couple of occasions has had an alignment done. Both times they showed me that the camber was slightly out and suggested the drill out etc. I did not do it the first time because I just didn't like the sound of it (had not seen a manual, or read about the procedure). Next time I didn't do it because it had not mattered the first time i.e. no unusual pulling or tire wear.

Just a curiosity question, how come that the camber/caster has to be adjusted after a rack & pinion ( or tir rod end) replacement ? It is just normal
to correct the toe in/ toe out, but I don't understand why the camber/caster
has to be corrected? Please let me know.
Thats just normal after any front end work. They don't wont you coming back with driving issues. They do this on any front end alignment.

update on stut tower adjustment

went back to dealer on sat to do recall on seat latches and ask team leader i have a question about alignment about the strut tower to show
me were it was drill out and done she says it was done and can show me the the sheet that it was done i said that doesn't tell me it was done i
open the hood and show her the top of strut and said show me were cause i don't see it done ,she say the person that did it was off well i said
there must other person that dose alignment that can show me its a ford dealer i wait for the recall to be done after 3 hours she comes back with
a answer that they adjust the sub frame to make the adjustment so i said show me she says you cant see it you have to take everything apart told her
thats bull,on Monday she will talk to the person that did and ask him what he did ,hes not going to say he didn't do it ,well i went to the manager and the person
i bought the auto from and explain that i was pissed its not even about the money now just the fact that being RIP off and lied to he said wait tell Monday and hell
get to the bottom of this ,next shell tell me you need a muffler bearing, what bullshit you think they can come up with a better story adjust the sub frame

Keep on it with service manager.. Drill out is not the same as subframe adjustment. Not even sure if that can be done on Windstar.. You paid for a drill out adjustment.. So you need to get paid back for work never done.. Or you will file complaint with local Better Business Bureau..

A subframe adjustment takes 1 hour...Albeit I have never heard one done on a Windstar.

I would ask them what procedure they used to perform the action. You wouldn't want them performing any repair that is not endorsed by Ford.

If they come up with the procedure, it will probably be a TSB (and probably for another vehicle). The TSB will indicate the time for the procedure. 3 hours is 3 times too long to adjust the subframe, even if it can be done on this vehicle.

i have the service manual and it doesn't show any alignment on the sub frame the only alignment is top of strut tower.

I have done alinements on fords that insted of drilling out the welds I drilled the 3 shock mounting bolt holes out to about 5/8 inch and used a crescent shaped washer to fill the hole and move the strut bolt around. Remove 1 strut nut and large washer and look for a crescant shaped washer around the stud. It is another acceptable way to adjust a ford. Just in case they did it this way.

the first thing i did was look at the tops of strut tower to see what they did,
the 3 nuts and treaded bolt still had a layer of grime on them so did the shock nut ,there were even leaves on top of the strut ,there weren't touch no sine of a wrench went on the nuts,

Sounds like no alinement to me.

update yesterday i call the team leader and was told that the person that did the aliment didn't have to drill it out cause it wasn't that far out of aliment he was able to bent it and get it to were it had to be ,i would think they could come up with a better story now ford doesn't loosen anything for aliment just bend the car, will continue to complain about this.

update yesterday i call the team leader and was told that the person that did the aliment didn't have to drill it out cause it wasn't that far out of aliment he was able to bent it and get it to were it had to be ,i would think they could come up with a better story now ford doesn't loosen anything for aliment just bend the car, will continue to complain about this.
But did they charge for the drill out??? if thats the case tell them they owe you..

update received suppose print out of aliment looks to me its for 2 different cars specified range are different for both time what you think ALL NUMBERS ARE IN DEGREES

time printed 8/14/07 11:31am

front :left**************************** front :right
Actual***before*** specified range***********Actual***before**** specified range
-0.7 *** -0.7*******-0.9/0.1*******camber**-1.0****-1.0*******-1.0/0.9
3.9 **** 3.9********2.6/4.1*******caster***3.0*****3.0********3.1/4.6
-0.09****0.42******-0.20/0.05******toe*****-0.07****0.36******-0.20/0.05


*********************front******************
******************Actual***before****specified range
*****cross camber****0.3*****0.3******-1.4/0.4
*****cross caster*****0.9*****0.9******-1.0/0.0
*****total toe*******-0.16****0.78*****-0.40/0.10



time printed 8/14/07 1:44pm

front :left*************************** front :right
Actual***before****specified range********* Actual***before*****specified range
-0.6*************-1.0/0.0******camber***-0.9***************-1.0/0.0
3.7**************2.6/4.1******caster****3.2****************3.1/4.6
-0.18************-0.20/0.05*****toe*****-0.14***************-0.20/0.05


***********************front**************
******************Actual***before***specified range
*****cross camber****0.3*************-0.5/0.5
*****cross caster*****0.4*************-1.5/0.5
*****total toe*******-0.31************-0.40/0.10

Fy171, you have paid both your time and money for some education, and as someone smart once said, "Education is expensive ... but worth the investment".

Alignment shops are similar to chiropractors ... if you go to one, they will find something "wrong", make some "adjustments" ... and charge you for it. Some dealer (BTW, "dealers" is what they call those folks in Las Vegas!) or some shop just happens to have the skilled technicians and the exact equipment that can find a more accurate alignment than any manufacturer on the planet. If you drove a brand new car to them, don't you think they would find something wrong? ... as long as you have money for them?

Stay away from them. Stay away from chiropractors. (I'm not sure about churches. Believing in God may be OK, but listening to someone who claims to know a lot about God ... THAT makes me uncomfortable.)

What happened to the all welded steel structure that Ford built that includes the front end alignment settings? Something "moved" after it left the factory? If so, I'm surprised the window openings don't open up and let the windows fall out! Do the doors still fit? The lift gate no longer closes?

If the welded steel structure "moved" and needs adjustment, after getting it adjusted "back" and paying your money ... drive to another shop or dealer across town and they will find further corrections necessary (as long as you are willing to pay). They are in business to make business ... you will never find such a place that will say "Gee, I couldn't find ANYTHING WRONG with your vehicle ... nothing due!"

Thanks for letting me vent! I also made the alignment investment many years ago. Went to a shop and got ripped off! (It still hurts when I rub my wallet.) So I bought some Bear alignment equipment of my own, read all the manuals, ... became my own alignment expert.

On old cars of years ago there were some issues. The geometry was short. Alignment was held in place by bolts and, sometimes, shims. A mudhole could cause misalignment. But today the geometry on most family vehicles is long. Except for toe-in, the settings are welded in place. A mudhole now will cause mud, not much else.

Now if your vehicle has been wrecked, ... or if you have excessive money ...

final update just came back from dealer ,seen service manager look at the
struts and admitted that the alignment wasn't done and refund the cost,
thanks for all the response(great site for help and information)
frank

Copying and distributing the Service Information CD would be a copyright violation.
I am not the "copy police", but I don't want to see anyone get in trouble.
It is good to want to help out.
I have felt like a simple copy and paste of a diagram or so from time to time......would make much more sense than my typing away, but.....again, that would be a copyright violation.