My new monster

So I went to Houston last weekend and bought a 2002 Impreza WRX. Much to my surprise I've come to find in the past week that it not only came modified with cold air intake, a really loud BOV, Kuhmo Z rated tires on 18 inch 5 spoke Enkei rims, and a nice muffler, but someone also modified the exhaust so I have a 4 inch wide pipe all the way to the muffler and no Cat.... Is it even legal for them to sell me that car? Should I take them to court? How much HP would you estimate I'm getting? OMG IT'S SO MUCH FUN!!!!

It's hard to say. None of the things you mentioned are going to give monumental increases in hp. If the car is not tuned properly, it may be making less power than when it rolled off the lot in '02. And, for heaven's sake. Put a cat on the car. Why do people remove them? Your car is no longer road legal. Who cares how much power it is making. I doubt the previous owner would be held responsible unless they provided a warranty.

Why did you not know about the mods in the first place? To most people, these are a complete turnoff and could signal the early demise of your new baby. If it were me, I would take it to a mechanic just to be sure that the mods aren't doing any damage to the motor as they are setup. Just to be safe. Anybody that has a BOV on a WRX would probably be willing to pump 40 psi into it because more is always better.

Edit. If you got a great deal on the car, disregard everything I have written except for the part about the cat.

With mods like that, I would be suspicious of what's been done to the car in the past and not touch it with a shopping cart even.

Yeah, too late, I got robbed. Oh well, time to start making it run better. Already did the spark plugs, oil and air filter. Can someone please educate me on this subject: If I have a cat-back exhaust, do I still need a catalytic converter? The terminology is confusing for me, wtf is cat-back? I know good and well what a catalytic converter is for and what it does and all but there's a place near my house that will get it inspected without the catalytic converter. I should have the money to resolve that issue within a year. So when I do get around to fixing the exhaust, what would y'all recommend putting on?

Cat-back means the after-market exhaust is from the cat back and doesn't effect your car passing inspection. If you have a cat-back already, spend the money on something else like a tune up.

Reading your original post though, the cat has been removed in which case, if you're in a emission inspection state, that car could not be legally sold to you and you have grounds to take the dealer to court.

If you have state vehicle inspection which checks emissions, I wouldn't remove the cat as you're asking for trouble. A garage willing to pass your car without a cat in a state requiring emissions inspection is breaking the law.

I think in Texas the emissions inspection requirements vary by county. I'll have to look into that some more, but I'd love to take those fools to court for ripping me off this bad. I shouldn't have paid over $8500.... But like I said, I accept the fact that a majority of the blame for my situation falls on me for rushing into this. Thanks for the help!

$8500?

Sounds real cheap to me. I doubt you will be able to get any money in court unless you bought it from a dealer. A private seller could just claim that the car was sold under the pretense that it was not for street use.

If you are looking to enhance the performance further you could put a turboback exhaust w/ a cat. You might be able to just put a cat in that will complement the exhaust already on the car.

Do you have a camera? I would love to see pics of the car.

No, it was a big dealership in Houston. What I'm wondering is if this is a turbo-back exhaust, does it still need at cat? I mean when I got it it had a horrendously rich smelling exhaust, after replacing the spark plugs it's gone. And what I read on the sticker under the hood is that the catalyst is somehow part of the intake. Can anyone confirm this? I'll try to get pictures of it at some point.

P.S.
What would you expect to pay for an AC leak repair?

Thanks for the help guys. I'm really enjoying this car even though I did totally get robbed by the dealership, but that's my own fault.

UPDATE: Just heard back from the used car manager at the dealership. They're going to get me inspected Monday morning. They don't want to pay $1400 to replace the exhaust system with the parts it would need, so they're just going to send it to their used car inspection place that will pass it with a blind eye... Maybe i'll get around to spending $1400 on it in the next year... Or maybe not... we'll see

Even if they pass the car through inspection, a State Trooper can pull you over and give you a 'fix it' ticket.

Do not settle for a push through inspection. Tell them to fix it right. You have plenty of reason to make a stink. Why is it going to cost so much? The cat is only like $500 I think.

Do not settle for a push through inspection. Tell them to fix it right. You have plenty of reason to make a stink. Why is it going to cost so much? The cat is only like $500 I think.

It's a one piece exhaust line all the way to the muffler. They would have to buy all three parts, OEM at best, which would likely cost $1000+. I'll give the local suby dealership a call and find out.

I don't know alot about exhaust systems, but I would think that they could cut into the existing exhaust and put a cat in. The cat is just a section of pipe. I don't think It would be that complicated. Not sure about the 4" pipe though. Don't give into there whining no matter what it's gonna cost them. They screwed YOU not the other way around. They owe you a new exhaust (and a tune) which you are probably gonna need if you change to a different exhaust. They should be able to tell you if the ECU has been reflashed.

Don't worry. I'm sure you got a good deal on an awesome car. You just might have to push the dealer to make this right. You also may have to spend a little money rebuilding the motor, hopefully way down the road, when it goes from the previous owners unscrupulous use. That is, unless granny really liked her loud BOV and exhaust. :)

PS If you want me to call or email the dealership pretending to be your lawyer, I am game. I am thinking about going to law school after all. I need to "practice a little law" I would also file a complaint with the better business bureau if they don't give in to your every demand. That will encourage them to respond if they want to keep a clean reputation (if they have one)

Sitting in the dealership right now, checking on parts... It appears Injen makes an full down pipe set with the cat, but the flange doesn't look like it's turned the right direction to match up with the cat-backs I've seen.

http://www.injen.com/galleries/products/41920070956SES1202DP_floating.jpg

http://perrinperformance.com/shared/images/products/305/274_large.jpg

this one might fit: http://perrinperformance.com/shared/images/products/219/99_large.jpg

The dealership is giving me a hard time about how much they're willing to pay for this. They've sent it over to their inspection place and I'm waiting on it to come back. Hope someone sees this before I'm done.

UPDATE: The manager at the dealership went ahead and told the inspection shop to put a catalytic converter in. So the inspection won't get done today but they are biting the bullet on it. And I'll get some reimbursement for my troubles.

On another note: Make sure y'all wear sunscreen when you go out during the summer. I've got a second degree burn on my shoulders and a really bad first degree burn on my back. Plus I smell pretty bad because I can't take a shower without screaming in pain.

I'm glad they are doing something about this. I think they know they don't really have a choice. The car may still need a tune after they add in the cat. I don't know enough to say this for sure though.

I got a bad burn on my back and shoulders when I was 16. The worst part was not being able to sleep once it started to really itch. The good thing is that is when you know it's coming to an end. I have heard that taking a bath in some oatmeal(I don't know how this is accomplished. Recipe: 50 gallons boiling water and 400 packets peaches and cream instant oatmeal?) provides some relief. I would try this if I were you.

yeah, it was idling funny for a while after I got it back, but it seems to have self-adjusted to a slightly lower idle rpm. Not much difference in performance. I've been told I could have taken the dealership to court over this, but it's really not worth my time imo.

The worst of the sunburn is over. It started peeling today and the blisters are starting to go away.

alright...i have and have had multiple turbo cars...including an 02 WRX w/ a cat-back and aftermarket open loop BOV.

i had problems w/ the richness on my WRX too...the thing that's probably making your car run like crap is the BOV. since you now have an open loop on an originally closed loop system....so now its f'ing up your MAF (mass air filter) because there's a different amount of air going through it. on most turbo cars, changing from a closed loop to an open loop system you need to change the MAF to compensate, otherwise you car is going to run rich because the air coming in is different (less).

while your exhaust might screw up your emissions, its not going to make your car run worse if its less restricted...if anything it will run better. my guess would be its your MAF. those things cost about $300-400, but if you fix that your car will most likely be running better, especially if you've done the plugs/wires too....or you could just throw a stock or closed loop BOV back on it. won't have the fun sound, but it will prob. run normal again.

the good thing is, its most likely not done any major damage to your car as the boxer engine in the WRX is a very strong engine and can handle abuse. i know cause the kid that bought it from me beat the piss out of it, didn't take care of it, and it still ran great for him.

Someone else correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe SB300 has his terms and parts confused... MAF does not stand for "Mass air filter". It stand for "Mass Air Flow", and it's a sensor the sits in the air intake line between the air filter and and the throttle body (or in this case, the intercooler). And since I have an after market cold air intake system from AEM, I believe the MAF is not stock. Also, I don't believe the BOV has a whole lot to do with the gas mileage as all it does is alleviate the back pressure on the intercooler.

But the bigger picture about the poor gas mileage is that the idiots that put the cat on, but it on after the second O2 sensor... So I'll probably just wait a year and put a completely new exhaust system on with new headers, up pipe and wrap the turbo while I'm at it.

Yeah, MAF stands for Mass Air Flow sensor

Yeah, I think he's got his accronyms screwed up, that's totally UFP.

Yeah, I think he's got his accronyms screwed up, that's totally UFP.

UFP?

Yeah, I think he's got his accronyms screwed up, that's totally UFP.

lol...yeah i don't know what the hell i was typing when i put Mass Air Filter. lol i definitely did mean Mass Air Flow meter/sensor.

anyway, doesn't the stock BOV recirculate back into the intake/throttle body on the WRX? if so, changing from a closed loop to a open-air BOV is going to change that and most likely make the engine run a little more rich than stock.

also the aftermarket Cold-air intakes usually connect up to the MAF, and usually don't come with a CAI kit. i mean its possible, but a lot of times when people put CAI kits on the car they don't change the MAF sensor... i haven't had my WRX for a couple years, so i don't quite remember where the MAF is exactly on it.

Ok, yeah. I see what your getting at. And actually I'd like to get rid of the open BOV now that the novelty has worn off. Unfortunately I have other things more important to take care of on it first. I just put an Altima Red top battery in it, put down the money for a mostly complete set of factory service manuals, and I still need to get it checked out by a mechanic. The power steering and AC are in questionable condition. I'd also like to get some better speakers. Speaking of which, does anyone know what size speakers the '02 takes? It's my understanding that it's basically 4 inch speakers in all 4 doors plus the tweeters.

Correction: The BOV releases exhaust gasses, not intake air.

No, the bov doesn't release exhaust.. It releases compressed air between the intercooler and the throttle body( it can go anywhere between the turbo and throttle body, but after the intercooler keeps the inlet side of the intercooler charged, while still keeping the compressor from "surging").

The maf is between the air filter and the turbo, and when the bov releases the compressed air into the atmosphere instead of back into the intake tract prior to the turbo but after the maf it causes a rich state (ecu thinks more air is going into the engine than really is)


And the device that releases the exhaust gas is the wastegate....


And to the origanal no cat on a turbo car... That would undoubtably increase overall performance, but at the cost of emissions (pollution). The turbo itself produces more than enough back pressure.. And removing any and all restrictions after this point will increase spool and reduce lag.....

Add that to an intake.. even less lag and more power through a larger rpm range...

But none the less if that state requires emmisions.. yes that was illegal for them to sell....

Heres another one a recirculation valve is the best way to go (even a little stealthier) and you want it as close to the inlet of the turbo (yes the part that sends the air back into the air intake tract.....) As that too will reduce lag.... (it actualy will create a vortex to help spool the turbo)

And if you read all of that and either A. all ready knew it (impressive) or B. visuallized and fully understood it all.. you are probably ahead of alot of the others posting here.....


learning more and more everyday....

Yeah, I realized that mistake when I was changing the PCV Valve a few days ago. Finally put a heat shield on the turbo and decided if I was taking off the intercooler for that I might as well replace it while I was in there. That was an interesting process and really helped me understand the intake system better. Sad news though. I bit a curb this morning on my way to pick up my brother. Ripped my front driver side wheel and tire and bent the control arm and sway bar... This isn't going to be cheap...

Does anyone know if the lug nut pattern and size for an '05 WRX will fit on my '02? Someone is selling a set of wheels and tires on Craig's list for $225: http://austin.craigslist.org/pts/461495286.html

Thought this might end up being cheaper for me in the long run with the current condition of my tires.