2000 3.8 Dying when comming to stop Please help OBI WAN

:) OK, I have a 2000 windstar that is having a 174 bank 2 lean code with a cylinder 5 misfire.

The car seems to run fine then after being on highway for a while I come to a stop and the idle is rough and then dies. The CEL dosent come on while driving only while idleing and when the rpm is stuttering for example when I come to a stop.


HERE IS WHAT I DONE.

I have done the 171 and 174 fix. Changed isolator bolts and gaskets.
I have done plugs and wires.
I have replaced the IAC
I have replaced the break pressure swtich. _ I know this isnt related.
I have used two containers of B12-Chemtool solven cleaner.
I have replaced fuel filter


Now what would be my next step. I really dont want to take the top end up to see if the EGR valves are dirty. Is there any other way of tracking this issue down. I am only a novice mechanic and really dont want to keep sinking money into parts with out knowing. I have heard suggestions to replace the TPS but I thought if that was bad it would give a code. I also heard I might only have to reset the computer by disconnecting the battery cable for 15mins... but I dont know if they are pulling my leg. I also heard it could be the EGR vacum regulator. But I dont trust the source telling me that.

PLEASE HELP YOU ARE MY ONLY HOPE!

Thanks,

Justin,

P.S I really want to fix this becasue I just replaced the trans in this van and I dont want to loose her.

Thats a pretty long list. Are there any codes set? I'd suggest cleaning the MAF with some B12-Chemtool and resetting the PCM by disconnecting the battery cable for 10mins.

the only codes I am getting now is bank 2 lean and cylinder 5 misfire. But only when at idle. I have not tried to reset the PCM so I will try that tonight.


Justin

I forgot I have replaced the coil also.



Justin

Put the Berryman's B-12 Chemtool into the gas tank.....dirty fuel injectors can cause exactly the problem you are having.

Clean the MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor with non-residue electronic cleaner.
Some auto part stores sell the same labeled as MAF cleaner.

OK.,


I have already added the B12 Chemtool to the tank I just added more yesterday.

For giggles I reset the computer today so I will see if that has a effect.


I am completely lost.

The engine does seem to shake a little at about 1700 rpm

If I rev it up and let it go down it rumbles a little bit at 1700 and 2000 on its way back down. Its idling a little below 1000 and struggles a little after running.


Justin

Did you clean the MAF? You seem to be missing my suggestion on cleaning the MAF before resetting the PCM. Its also possible that you have a slight vacuum leak. If cleaning the MAF doesn't work, I'd spray some carb cleaner abound in the engine compartment (while the engine is running) listening for a change in rpm.

Ok,

I have not cleaned the MAF yet. I will do that tonight and reset the pcm again.


I did reset the pcm last night and I have drove 120 miles and it hasn't died. Although it has done the rough idle thing a couple of times. But no CEL. Before when it would rough idle it would die and i would get bank 2 lean codes with a cylinder 5 misfire.

I have sprayed carb cleaner around the intake and nothing happened. Is there any easy way to detect a vacum leak?

I will clean the MAF this evening and I will post the results.

thanks you guys for replying so fast. this forum rocks!

The lean codes are likely a result of the misfire.....with the PCM trying to compensate.
The fuel injectors on the windstar are very reliable....but can build up some crud and cause the problems you are having.....also it is possible that there is a wiring or connection issue.
The injectors have 2 wires inside the electrical plug.
1 is hot when the ignition is ON.
The other is given a momentary ground to energize the injector.
The momentary ground is driven DIRECTLY by the PCM, while that can fail, hopefully that is not the case....and is not a likely cause.
It may take a while for the Berryman's B-12 to do it's job.
You also might try looking under the hood (carefully) at night (darkness) with the engine running (when it is acting up) and see if you can see any sign of arcing that could be from a bad spark plug wire (even new ones can fail).
Cylinder #5 is on the front of the engine.....center cylinder.

Is there any chance it could be the Fuel pressure regulator? Someone recomended I pull the top hose off and smell for gas.


Its wierd when it first starts up it doesnt misfire. Only after driving and then comming to a stop. Its hard to explain and I know I sound crazy. I am going to pull the plug one more time and start to verify again. I had already placed the coil also.



Is it possible that it is the fuel pressure regulator?


Justin

I have not seen posts regarding the fuel pressure regulator itself.....but the 2000 falls into the range of windstar years for the TSB that is the sticky post at the top of this forum.
That TSB mentions a issue with the vaccum line that goes to the fuel pressure regulator.....can develop leaks....and also not maintain a tight fit onto the fuel pressure regulator.
This could be a vaccum leak that could be causing problems for you.
Now, with NO vaccum to the fuel pressure regulator, the fuel pressure in the fuel rail will be at MAXIMUM......more vaccum results in less fuel pressure.
This is because, when the engine is under maximum load, the vaccum inside the intake is at the lowest......so more fuel pressure to the injectors results in more fuel spraying in when they open.
At idle....the vaccum is at the maximum.....and it requires much less fuel to keep the engine running.....so the pressure is reduced.

Another thing to take note of.......in case you were to have a fuel pressure issue contributing to the problem.....is the fuel pump.
There have been a number of posts about the fuel pump RELAY, located inside the power distribution box......which is next to the battery.
Another relay that has been mentioned at the same time is the PCM relay.
You can buy new relays at the dealer and just plug them in.

The thing to understand.....you will NOT get any code(s) indicating low fuel pressure or flow.
The Windstar does NOT monitor fuel pressure or fuel flow, the PCM does not know this information.
If you have a computer readout that tells you the miles per gallon......this is calculated from the MAF value that tells the PCM how much air is going into the engine......and, with some other data.......the PCM calculates the amount of fuel needed to maintain the ideal air/fuel ratio......and uses this calculated value for fuel consumption.

Several things to check.....just on a wild chance.......
Follow the PCV line (1999 and newer 3.8L has the PCV valve in the FRONT valve cover) and make sure that all it's connections are good...and that it is not collapsed or cracked.
Then, follow the crankcase breather line....goes from the rear valve cover (on 1999 and newer) to the big flex hose that goes from the air filter to the throttle body....make sure that one of these connections has not been bumped loose. I really do prefer cheap and easy fixes.

I agree. I have checked the vacum line going from the fuel regulator. It seems fine. I pulled it today and it and it was drawing vacum. I drove it for a while today and I only has this behavior when slowing down or comming to a stop. Tomorrow I will check the other lines you mentioned. Today the CEL came on again and it did not have the lean code. It only had the cylinder 5 misfire. I am going to pull that plug again for gigles to see if that could be it.


Someone also told me but I dont know if its true that the when the fuel regulator fails it could cause the lean code and misfire since not enough fuel is pushing the injector. I dont know if thats true and if it is if it would make the same cylinder misfire everytime.

Thank you for the help so far in this mystery. I appreciate it. I will post what I find out tomorrow.



Justin

which repair manual do you recommend