86 civic dx hatch swap...

I picked up an 86 Civic hatch Dx in great shape for $500 as a project. Obviously that massively powerful 1342cc, 60HP carburated engine ain't cutting it! At first I thought it would be funny to trick out the original engine just to be a little different but I am being told that at most I would be able to get out of it is about 85 HP. What I am hearing on this sight and some others that a b16 is probably the best option for me, but I am getting conflicting stories about what it is gonna take to do this. The most consistant response is that I need to change out motor mounts, wiring harness, front axle, and of course engine and tranny. Is that it? and would a ZC swap be any easier seeing as how it was the OE on the original 86/87 Si. Any help would be appreciated.

I've read that an B16?? from an 88-89 integra is a direct bolt in for this gen of civic? No mod of mounts req'd. You can also Mini-Me it if you want to rod it... :P

I've read that an B16?? from an 88-89 integra is a direct bolt in for this gen of civic? No mod of mounts req'd. You can also Mini-Me it if you want to rod it... :P

Yeah just slap a B16 VTEC head on your EW motor! All you need is the head and a few wiring changes, you can even use a stock SI ECU!


NO, all of this information is completely false.

A Mini-me will not work on the 1st/3rd gen EW/D15 block. The SOHC VTEC head won't even bolt up.

A B-series swap will require:
Wiring
ECU
Shift linkage
B-series Motor ($,$$$)
B-series tranny ($,$$$)
86-89 Integra steering knuckles
Custom exhaust
Aftermarket motor mounts ($$$)
Aftermarket axles ($$$)
VSS
Alot of elbow grease and patience

A D16A1 swap from an 86-89 Integra will require:
D16A1 motor
D16A1 tranny
Modified 84-87 civic motor mount (easy)
86-89 Integra tranny mounts
A few wiring changes (only one wire needs to be changed if using an 86-87 D16A1 in an 86-87 SI)
ECU for the motor you are using (there is a difference between the 86-87 and 88-89 D16A1 motors)
Stock 86-89 Integra axles
86-89 Integra steering knuckles

If you search you will find a ton of info on this forum about a D16A1 swap. The best thing to do would be to buy an 86-89 Integra as a parts car, then you can also swap over the 4 wheel disc brakes. 1st gen Integra parst cars can sometimes be found for around $500, this is cheap when compared to the $,$$$ a B-series will cost.

Well, I just picked up an 87 Si for $250 and I guess I'll just start with a D15a3 for now...is it possible to mini me that engine? And would a turbo snap the rods if I kept it to around 4psi? This is my first project car so I appreciate the advice as I am just kinda learning all this as I go.

Why bother only boosting at 4 PSI? A head port, cam, header, exhaust and CAI will give you more power with your stock motor than 4 PSI ever will, and for alot less cash. A stock D16A1 will give you the same ammount of power by just dropping it in, this is why most people prefer the D16A1 swap.

A mini-me will not work with this motor. The oil passages are slightly different and 1 head bolt will not line up. You will also need to rewire the car to run the electronic advance distributor or make an adapter to mount your SI distributor. All of the 84-87 Civic models are different in every way from the 88+ models, about the only thing you can simply bolt on from an 88+ Civic are the wheels. Welcome to the world of the 1st gen CRX and 3rd Gen Civic, it's time to get creative and learn how to weld!

I think you'll be investing a whole lot of work into this car without much return. Personally, I'd sell the DX hatch and buy an '86-'87 Integra parts car as a donor for the SI. Then sell the SI motor after you've swapped the D16A1 from the Integra and make your money back.

The only problem is that the DX body is in PHENOMENAL shape, the Si however doesn't have a decent panel on the whole car! I would however agree after talking to you that maybe selling the Si engine and tranny, glass, and whatever else cosmetically I don't use, then picking up a 88-89 Teg w/ a blacktop could be my best option. Going back to the turbo though, I am getting a lot of info that the rods in all d series are weak in comparison to the b series, so dare I suggest 8psi?!?! What would be considered the max on a d15a3 and a d16a1 as far as horsepower without doing damage?

The amount of boost a motor can handle depends on it's condition. Stock D-series rods can easily handle 200 HP, but 250+ might be pushing it.

I have 3 friends that are currently running boost on D-series motors and one that has just finished building a motor and is about to boost it. One friend is running 9 PSI on a stock blacktop D16A1, another friend is running 12 PSI on a built D16A6 with stock rods, another putting out over 200 on a stock browntop D16A1 with ZC cams (I forgot how much boost he's running but I was at the Dyno with him), and another friend that built a blacktop D16A1 with Eagle rods in anticipation of producing 250+ HP.

My friend with the 9PSI on a stock D16A1 just blew his tranny, but the motor is fine. Although I should mention both the motor and tranny have 190,000 miles on them so it probably won't be long until he blows the motor too (he has a spare so he doesn't care).

My friend with the D16A6 is currently having tuning problems. The motor can handle the power, but he has yet to get the car on a Dyno.

I would however agree after talking to you that maybe selling the Si engine and tranny, glass, and whatever else cosmetically I don't use, then picking up a 88-89 Teg w/ a blacktop could be my best option.

I dont know...
You already have the SI so you might as well swap everything over. This includes all the wiring, gas tank/fuel pump and fuel lines, pretty much everything related to keeping the motor running. You'll also need to swap the gauge cluster for the higher rev limit on the tach and for the PGM-FI light. Use the SI tranny since it is a much better tranny than the one in the DX.

You should also check the rear axle beam. I believe the DX uses a smaller, hollow rear axle while the SI has a sway bar located inside the axle beam. Check the passenger side rear trailing arm, if there is a 6" link between the axle and the arm, you've got a rear sway bar. Also the internal sway bar axle will be about 2.5" in diameter while the hollow axle will be about 2.25" in diameter.

If you do all this you'll be set for an '86-'87 Integra browntop D16A1 swap. You'll only need to re-pin one wire for the IACV but that's it, the rest of the browntop wiring is the same as the SI.

However, if you want a serious turbo system you'll want to run a '88-'89 Integra blacktop motor with an electronic advance distributor. You will have to rewire everything from the motor to the ECU but it will be easier if you already have the SI wiring in there since 80% of the wiring is the same.

Once you've gone this far the next step is to find a blacktop CIVIC DOHC ZC ODB1 distributor. This along with an OBD1 conversion harness will allow you to run an OBD1 ECU which allows you to run fuel managemant programs such as Crome, S300, Turboedit, Megasquirt, etc. This is what I was planning to do with the motor I built for this car:http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=527841 I wasn't planning to turbo this motor, I just wanted to be able to customize my fuel maps.

The next step is a B-series swap. Now that the electronics are OBD1 compatable, a B-series swap will be relatively painless.


BTW, I know way too much about these cars than any sane person should. If you run into problems, I'll be happpy to help.

Yeah, I was disappointed that the rear axle is still set up for drums though...I was thinking about trying to eventually track down an Integra axle to get rear disks, but considering the weight of the car and the fact that I don't even have a place around here to take the car above 100 MPH I don't really even know if that is necessary. Most of the interior is going to end up in the DX, in fact, I've already got a lot of it in. The guages are a definite seeing as how my DX doesn't even have a tach. I've noticed that the PGM-FI light is on when I run the Si, but I have yet to look at the ECU to see why. I found a great site that has an Adobe attachment and has all the descriptions of the ECU light codes. The website is http://www.gunson.co.uk/downloads/G4165_en.pdf. It lists the codes for the Rovers as well as the Honda's (Honda starts on pg 14). The d15 motor runs incredibly well for having 184K, but without knowing the history of the car I am wondering if I should just rebuild now, or use it like a lab rat and slap the turbo, intake and exhaust on it and see how it reacts, then rebuild later when necessary. Maybe rebuilding at all is not cost effective considering a 40K JDM ZC goes for only a few hundred bucks! I am pretty content to be at the 170-180 HP range, and feel comfortable putting that kind of power into the d15. While I am thinking about it, I wanted to pick your brain about some other part compatibility between the DX and the Si. Are the motor/tranny mounts the same? Also, I have several newer parts on the DX and would love to keep them if I do the d15 swap. Front axle, air conditioning compressor, alternator (the DX is 55 amp and the Si is 60, but can they be interchanged?) and brake master cylinder (pretty sure it is exactly the same). One last question for today...Is there a kit that I can get to move the moon roof to the DX, or should I just pay the $300 to have a new one put in?

Also, I have several newer parts on the DX and would love to keep them if I do the d15 swap. Front axle, air conditioning compressor, alternator (the DX is 55 amp and the Si is 60, but can they be interchanged?) and brake master cylinder (pretty sure it is exactly the same). One last question for today...Is there a kit that I can get to move the moon roof to the DX, or should I just pay the $300 to have a new one put in?


http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=236249


Use the D15 as your lab rat. You can get more power with the same amount effort from another motor (like a D16A1 or DOHC ZC).

Most all of the parts mentioned above will swap over. I'm not sure about the alternator, it might use a different plug. The sunroof will not swap over and there is no kit. This swap would require cutting out the top of both cars then welding the sunroof in. Besides, most performance oriented people don't want the sunroof because it adds weight to the top of the car (I'm ditching mine as soon as I make a plug).

The drum brakes aren't bad for a daily driver, they're just a hastle to deal with. Later when you car is running with the SI motor and when you feel the need for a little more power, pick up an '86-'89 Integra parts car and swap everything over.

Thanks, this was a huge help. I actually feel confident in what direction I want to go after getting more information from you. I drive this car about 500 miles per week so when you say "daily driver" that would be me. I just want to have a little bit of fun with this car, something that keeps me above 30 mpg but can also jack a few cars up when the light turns green. So I am sooooo not concerened with the weight of the sunroof compared to the pleasure of having it (I live in a very warm sunny area 5 minutes from the beach), but I can appreciate what you intend to do with yours! I am sure some other things will come up when I do the swap so I will probably be asking for your help on some other stuff. Oh yeah, quick interior question...what other Honda/Acura seats will fit on my rails? I will post some pics when it finally gets painted, but until then who needs to see yet ANOTHER primered up Civic!?!?!?!

Oh yeah, quick interior question...what other Honda/Acura seats will fit on my rails?

Again, you're looking for 1st gen Integra parts. IIRC the Integra seats are a direct swap for a Civic. Other 86-88 Civic seats might fit, but I can't verify this.

Also, my performance built D16A1 was able to keep up with a stock B16, and it got 32 MPG. If you decide to turbo your car, be prepared to loose some driveability and fuel economy.

Thanks again bro...