Suspected Valve Noise

I've been fighting the lean codes (0171,0174) for a long time and I recently replaced the lower intake manifold gasket on my '98. After changing the oil and started her up it began making a horrible, loud (I mean LOUD) clicking or tapping noise that seems to be in sync with the engine. That is it clicks faster when the engine is reved.

I suspect it is a problem with a valve.

I've never done a valve job before but I've read the Haynes manual and I think I could do it.

Should I try it and hope I can find the busted spring, rocker arm, lifter or whatever it is?

Or am I crazy to think I can do it and how much should I expect to pay a shop?

Since it happened right after replacing the intake gasket ... I would suggest you re-open that area and look around. Maybe take the valve cover off also.

Mighty coincidental for a valve noise to suddenly begin.

Is it OK to take that lower intake manifold off without replacing the gasket again?

I thought maybe there was a socket or something that fell into the top of the block but it seems to me it would bounce around in there all up and down the top of the camshaft randomly. The noise is in perfect sync with the engine and I've never opened the valve covers. If y'all have done the manifold gasket replacement, the sound is a lot like when you just start the engine right before the coolant starts circulating. But just from one valve. At first when I started it, the heater hose came onedone and some coolant spilled out so I thought the noise was the valves echoing in the empty coolant passages in the lower manifold. The upper radiator hose going from the thermostat to the radiator gets hot so I'm assuming the coolant is circulating. Or does it flow the other way? I opened the front valve cover (because that one's easy) and I didn't notice anything obvious there like a broken rocker or spring.

I guess if I take off the manifold and there's coolant in it I can eliminate my echo theory? (and check for a loose item bouncing around)

I forgot to mention, I was running on a missfire in cylinder #1 for a long time. It cleared when I replaced the original '98 spark plug wires.

From fighting with the lean codes, I thought maybe an air intake valve was stuck open, and is now broken, making the noise.

According to FORD, the lower intake manifold gaskets are not re-usable.
To be honest, with all the work involved, I would put new Lower Intake manifold gaskets in. The end seals will be fine.
I have no idea of what the sound will be.....I do have pictures posted from my lower gasket experience on my '96 3.8L

I was going to suggest looking at the air baffle in the upper intake, but I see that you have a '98. I don't think the goofy upper intakes were installed until the 1999 model years.

According to FORD, the lower intake manifold gaskets are not re-usable.
To be honest, with all the work involved, I would put new Lower Intake manifold gaskets in. The end seals will be fine.
I have no idea of what the sound will be.....I do have pictures posted from my lower gasket experience on my '96 3.8L

I haven't driven on these gaskets but to the stop sign at the corner of my property and back. I've changed them twice already and they're like $50 a set. I'll see what they look like when I take them off and decide from there.

I'm almost positive the sound is coming from a valve.

I called one mechanic and he quoted $2100 for a valve job. The parts for one cylinder were $111 at Advanced auto so I ordered them and they'll be here in a week. (But I forgot the gasket, d'oh!) In the meantime I'll be breaking it down this weekend and pray it's just a broken spring or rocker, so I don't have to take the head off. Then I'll send the unused parts back.

If the spring is broken the noise could be the pushrod smacking the rocker and the rocker smacking the valve stem, yes?

I'm thinking this is all related to the misfire and the lean fuel codes. The misfire was in cylinder #1 so if something is wrong with those valves I'm thinking (hoping/praying) I'll be on the right track.

BTW, Autozone has what looks like a good tutorial on doing valve jobs, for Windstars. They made it sound like I could do it at least.

I broke down my engine this weekend to look for the noise, and I discovered a blocked coolant passage on the lower intake manifold. It's the port that goes to the radiator just under the cap. It was completely rusted shut. I had to break through the rust with a thumb tack and some aluminum wire. What does this hose do and could it be that clog was causing my noise?

The reason I suspect this is because in the past when I've removed and reinstalled the lower intake manifold, after changing the oil and coolant, for a few seconds after starting it for the first time it would make the same noise. When it first happened I thought I put the gaskets on backwards and coolant wasn't circulating through the manifold causing the sound of the engine to echo inside the empty manifold.

Not only was that port rusted shut (it's an overflow hose I believe) the thermostat was broken and inoperable. So I thought that may have been the problem and put it back together.

It stopped making the noise for a few minutes, then it returned, I was so very dissappointed, I thought I'd actually fixed something for a change.

Now my susspicion has turned back to the valves. I guess I'm going to break it down again and replace the lifters in the #1 cylinder.

I'm not buying another lower intake gasket though, this one can't be bad from running for just long enough to warm the engine up.

I replaced the lifters, pushrods, rocker arms and fulcrums in the #1 cylinder and the noise is still there.

Something I did notice however...

On the new lifters, I could easily press down the part the pushrod sits on. I checked the old lifters and none of them move at all, as hard as I might try.

That's not normal is it? Should I replace all the lifters?

HELP! :1zhelp:

I just had the transmission rebuilt and I can't give up on it.

If you have a engine, or cylinder head, machine shop in your area, I would go and show them what you are observing .... don't waste your time with a parts supply house.

Yeah, that would be ideal but I don't really have much money right now. 14 lifters are only $175.

Have you looked at the oil? Is it milky? I know when I took my lower off, got a crapload of coolant in the oil. Had to change oil twice to get it all out. I reused my gaskets and have not had any problems since (knock on wood). Do you know what a main bearing knock sounds like? If there was some water in the oil, you may have spun a main. Not saying that is your prob, but I think its possible if you lost lubricating properties of your oil.

Hello

It sounds like you may have dropped something into your engine. My worst fear is for me or some one else to drop something into the intake (or down the carb on older vehicles) when working around engines. Instead of the being a little job it turns into a 50.00-150.00. engine tare down to get a .30 nut out (that’s doing the work myself). Like 12ounce said "Mighty coincidental for a valve noise to suddenly begin. " We all learn from experience.


Have you taken a long item such as a screwdriver and listened around the engine to find the noise? Put the long object on the engine (with it running)and hold the other end to your ear. You’ll hear things you’ve never heard before.


You might be able to get away with reusing the intake gasket because it wasn't "driven" on very far. However, the main reason why I believe some gaskets are not reusable are the fact that they have a crush area and deform when installed. I know that some head bolts are not reusable because of the fact that the last tightening requires 45 deg. turn which stretches the bolt. After the bolt is stretched, the metal has changed its properties and will not stretch the same a second time. It’s like wire. You can bend it once, twice, and may times. However, if you bend it in one spot sharply may times, the wire work hardeneds and breaks.

But for reusing gaskets here is something I did: I was putting a head on a 58 Plymouth (318 engine heavy cast iron heads) with I was 15 (years ago) and slipped. I tore the new head gasket. I didn’t have much money. I reused the old gasket and it’s still holding today.

Regards

Dan

I'm pretty sure I didn't drop anything in the engine, since I wasn't missing any putting it back together. It really doesn't sound like a nut or bolt boincing around, it's too rythmic.

I changed the oil and filter since, I suppose there could still be some coolant in there. I'm thinking of trying an engine flush. The oil was pretty nasty when I changed it of course.

I have no idea what a bearing knock sounds like but I've read that if that's the problem I may as well have the engine rebuilt. On thing though that makes me think it's not is that the noise went away after putting it back together and changing the oil last time. If it was a rod bearng it would NEVER go away, right?

No one thinks the collapsed lifters could have anything to do with the noise?

I appreciate you comments, please keep them coming.

Hello

I would ask a mechanic to come over and listen to the engine. I wouldn't want you to go through the expence of an engine rebuild needlessly! I have over 218,000 miles on my 95 and it's still running strong. I did replace the rod bearings at 177,000 miles when I did the headgaskets. These engines go for a long time if they're maintained.

Please ask for help! If I lived near by, I'd be over. Is there someone that can help out here?

Regards

Dan

How many miles on your van?

170,000

I bought the car used about 3 or 4 years ago and I have no idea how well it was maintained before me. Since I've had it I've taken good care of it.

I think I'm going to change the oil again and put a bottle of "Sea Foam" in with it and see if it helps.