volfenhags

THE AMP:

Kicker ZR 600. This amp has murdered several 12 and 15 inch RF's. The last set of 15's it sent to hell were kickers with 2 inch voice coils. It ripped the coils clean off the face of the woofer while i was listening to TBC "sludge". Its very obvious this amp puts out more power than kicker said it did when wired up 2 ohm.. needless to say by now i know to hang on to my woofer receipts.

THE SPEAKERS:

Two 12 inch volfenhangs dual 2.5 voice coils, 2 or 4 ohm. SUPPOSEDLY they handle 500W RMS. I figures hey, they are cheap, they look good, and are packaged like no other. I felt pretty bad for them really since ive seen this amp in action before. I wired them up as 2 ohm.

DONT BUY VOLFENHAGS if you know your amp pushes more than 300W RMS!!
Trust me... The inside of your car will smell like its been on fire. And when they blow up some kind of oil or something blows back into your speaker box.

I dont like to jam my system in my driveway (apt). Too many witnesses. So i hooked it all up secretly and then drove it down the street a couple blocks away to try it out. About four blocks away from the house i cranked it up with a bass cd in the reciever. In a matter of one MINUTE we had to pull over to let the smoke out of the car. I opened the trunk and the smoke inside had to clear before i could even see my speaker box. Like straight out of a cheech and chong movie. And the smell will not go away my car now smells like electrical smoke damage still after two days.

Im lucky the amp didnt get damaged.

Sounds to me like you have your amp set up horribly and are clipping the hell out of it, destroying anything you have attached.

And Volfenhags are crap no matter what amp they're being powered by

The amp is and was set up perfect. This was confirmed by several professionals around town just yesterday. The entire system was checked by more than one professional installer when i took the speakers back to where i bought them. They tried to say i hooked them up wrong. This was dismissed quickly and they would only give refund if they were professionally installed. Considering i hold an electrical licence for the state i live in they made good on the warrenty after they confirmed the error was not mine or with my equipment. They even wanted to check my amp to make sure it wasnt damaged or anything wich they said could cause a problem. They were looking for any excuse not to give me my money back, and found none. The gain was set at around 50% and the wiring was correct and above the standard from what ive seen come from professional installers.

The problem is companies sell speakers and rate them at higher power capacity than what they can actually do.

And yes, volfenhags are crap. I went to wal-mart and bought two 12 inch sony explodes today. Got them hooked up, they sound good and dont catch fire. Bonus. I backed the gain off on the amp to about 40% and so far so good. I dont expect them to last very long because they look like they are pushing pretty dang hard. I turned the gain on the amp down all the way, cranked the stereo up nice and loud and then turned the gain back up on the amp till it looked like it was all they can take. They havent started stinking yet so i guess i will see how it goes.

I went to wal-mart and bought two 12 inch sony explodes today. Got them hooked up, they sound good and will catch fire.

I think the only think worse than a set of volfenhags is a set of sony subs. Cmon man purchase some real quality stuff, if the woofer costs 50 off line or 100 at walmart it cant be expected to last long.

Another thing read the RMS rating peak power is NOTHING its a marketing scam to get people to buy stuff. Im going to agree with sr20 your settings are whacked, ive over powered under powered and even set perfect power to subs with no problems. And ive seen a lot of "professionals" before. Do it right the first time and dont waste money.

If your going to quote a person, dont change what they say or it isnt a quote any more.

I dont expect these sonys to last very long. I might return them and go back to 15's. But For the price they are doing okay. Im happy with the sound they make but i dont expect them to live up to the 30 day return warrenty. They are as loud as what a single high end 15 is. The sound quality is average. They do not live up to the power they are rated at. And they are 4 ohm wich sucks.

So lets see how bad my settings are.

The stereo is a 1 week old pioneer. It has several pre-selects in the audio settings like "powerful" "flat" "voice" ect. I dont use any of them. I select "custom" and set it up like this:

-2 to +2 bass
-2 to 0 mid
-1 to +2 high

loudness = off or low
The highest the volume ever sees is 19.

RCA jacks run from the stereo output to the input of the amp. The amp gain control is set usually between 20-50%. The amps MDP is configured as a subwoofer crossover.

Thats about it. Never have i had a set of speakers blow out like the volfenhags did. Even these sonys can take some abuse. A good set of kickers usually lasts me 1-2 years.

You should be getting alot longer life out of subs that 1-2 years, i have an old infinity perfect thats been going since the end of 03, sold it to a friend still works fine. My old MTX is going on 3 and my old setup had subs that where about 10 years old. The only time i have ever blown a sub by accident was when i had my first setup and i messed with the settings on the amp, only took about 20 min. No sub should ever fry unless there overpowered, the amp is clipping or the enclosure has problems, IE free air setups that shouldnt be. You really shouldnt expect a set of speakers you cna pic up for about 50 to last very long, especially if they lis them with thre main features as chrome this or show quality that.

AS for the qoute i was stating the obvious. Sorry it offends anyone but it makes some threads interesting.

hehe. i saw a thread on some forum a couple weeks ago where a guy bought one of those 12" walmart xplods and dumped several thousand watts into it (don't remember exactly but i think it was around 4-5k). he was just proving a point about boxes but he hit about 147 db with it. it started to smell after a few burps.

Those speakers claimed 1000 peak 500 RMS. I know i was pushing them at the time they blew but i wanted to see what they could do. My amp is 200 rms shy of what the speakers claim to handle at 2 ohm.

Heres what the book to the amp says.

4 ohm = 150 RMS x2
2 ohm = 300 RMS x2
1 ohm = 600 RMS x1

snr = 100 Db
thd @ rated RMS = .02%

the sony subs at 4 ohm cannot take 150w rms in a large ported box. the volfenhags at 2 ohm cannot handle 300w rms. Both companies are liars. I miss my kicker 15's. But they too claim more power than they can push. At least they lasted me for a bit. Thats what i need to do is invest in better speakers, but for now the sonys may have to do. With the cost of the rest of the system amp,box,reciever, my wallet was hit pretty hard.

Heres what the book to the amp says.

4 ohm = 150 RMS x2
2 ohm = 300 RMS x2
1 ohm = 600 RMS x1


Those specs make no sense

Are you sure that last one is correct, and it's not 600x1 @ 4ohm?

oops i was off. lets try this again.

2 x 150w @ 4 ohms
2 x 300w @ 2 ohms
2 x 275w @ 1 ohm
1 x 600w @ 4 ohms bridged
1 x 600w @ 2.66 ohms bridged
1 x 550w @ 2 ohms bridged

this should be correct my mistake.

why is there a rating for 2.66 ohms? companies never rate them that way. and it makes less power at 2 ohms bridged than 4 ohms bridged?

Wow that amp is retarded


http://www.kicker.com/06/tech-support/manuals/manuals/ZRAmpsMan.pdf

Thats what its rated at according to the original booklet. From what i understand they actually push more than kicker claims. Ive ran it at 2 and 4 ohm. MANY owners would not share the opinion that its retarded. Its a damn good amp so think what you want to about it.

why is there a rating for 2.66 ohms? companies never rate them that way.
3 8's in parallel or 3 dual 4's in series/parallel is 2.66


and it makes less power at 2 ohms bridged than 4 ohms bridged?
rail voltage will drop very quickly when you reach the limits of the power supply, often resulting in less power being available at the lower impedance than a higher impedance because of the large difference in rail voltage in each case.

WEll i think kicker is retarded. Im going to stand by my opinion and if any one has any objections i will explain my reasons.

Until the time comes when i need to explain my reasoning behind my opinions, dont worry about them.

AS for the retarded amp. I know alot of people buy amps that are 1 OHM stable so they can get the extra juice, but why make an amp that pushes less power at 1 ohm if it cant handle the load. To me it seams like a waste, if im getting a 1 ohm stable amp i want it to push more power at 1 ohm than it does at any other impendance. So what im saying is it seems pointless to make the amp work harder for no reason.

Would you rather have an amp that can do 600x1 @ 4ohm and can't be run any lower, or an amp that can do 600x1 @ 4ohm and could be run all the way down to 2ohm if you wanted, even though it puts out a little less power down there? What if you had a dual 4ohm sub? Think of it like a ghetto version of JL's RIPS technology ;)

I would rather have an amp that can handle multiple speaker configurations. I would rather have an amp that does what it claims or better, with as little thd @ rp as possible. I prefer an amp with good reviews and one that is known for standing the test of time. All of these things my amp provides to me. So really i dont care what anybody thinks about the system i have or the components it contains. It sounds good even running shit for subs.

This thread started out as me telling people not to buy certain speakers if your running a certain amount of power. You can sit and tune out your system all day long it will not make a bit of difference as you go through radio stations wich have different types of music ie rap, country, rock ect. My system sees about every type of music possible and its hard to find a middle ground for them all. So my idea was to find a set of resonably prices speakers that dont give a shit what your playing through them. If you dont like kicker, sony, ect feel free to start a thread about it. Other than that dont flame my equipment, and mind what your mama told you and if you dont have nothing nice to say dont say nothing.

I was talking about a whole company as one not sepcific products, yeah i admit some of there amps are pretty good, as far as speakers well thats a different story. As far as flaming your system no i was talking about the amp, it can be perfect for your setup but for something like what im running i need i need something a little different. Ive been around this shit long enough to understand how alot of things work, ive had cheap compnents, expensive ones and over priced ones. What i look for is completely different from yours or anyone elses standards. Hell what im running now im ashamed of due to the fact that the amp i ahve is a 5 year old profile, that isnt even close to pushing what i need for my sub. I learned the hard way research the hell out of everything before you buy something, so you dont keep going through the same hell of purchasing a new set of something every 3 months.

As for the amp itself and the ability to wire down. I like the ability to wire mulitple sets of speaker to an amp, but thats the reasoning behind purchasing an amp and subs that are compatible. I buy one piece figure out what specs i need for the say the amp then i look for what will optimize its performance.

As for my setup yes it is possible to find an ideal setting to make different types of music sound good. I listen to everything death metal,metal, classic rock, alternative, rap, r&b, and the occasional country. Every type of music sounds good, without me having to adjust the eq or the amp. Whats even worse right now i have my speakers running of the HU, some old 4x6 pioneers, and a set of 6x9 mb quarts. The way its set it sounds good. till i get the time to install the second skin, new wiring and my new comps and otehr sub its staying that way.

Thats cool if you dont like kicker you dont like kicker. Each is entitled to his or her own opinion.

I pulled up to wal-mart, with the original boxes the sony xplode speakers came in, and the receipt to return them in hand. They were still hooked up in back.

I told my GF, "okay, if they blow its going to be right here so i can return them"

I set the supertuner on "powerful" and the loudness on low. Then i punched the volume up to 19. At this point any plastics on the interior or loose change is rattling.

I got out of the car and noticed the car next to mine was also starting to rattle. Anyways i opened the trunk and turned the gain on the amp up to about 70%. They held. They didnt smell like they was getting hot. I put my ear about 6 inches from a sub and while i detected mild distortion and they were obviously overdriven, overall they didnt sound too much like a train wreck like i thought they would. Im suprised they held.

I might go out and buy 2 more. I have another box that will probably fit in the trunk but the box i have in it now is a ported box, and the other box is sealed. The amp has a left and right channel, and i was thinking of wiring 2 subs to each side of the amp. For instance, the left channel would be running the 2 subs in the sealed box, and the right channel would be wired to the 2 subs in the ported box.

Would this stress out my amp too much?

It wouldn't stress the amp any more than a 4ohm bridged load would, but it's an incredibly horrible idea if you value how your music sounds at all

Its not bridged right now, and it wouldnt be if i went with 4 subs either. I got a large ported box already and it catches lows pretty good i just thought maybe a couple more 12's in a sealed box i could have the best of both worlds. Im just used to my sealed box and how it sounds. The ported box i have might be too big for these subs. The box is so big it takes up well over half of my crown victorias mafia sized trunk. The port on it is so big you can put your arms down the front of the box and touch the back of it. I wonder how it would sound if i cut a couple holes and just add two more subs to the ported box.

But as far as the amp is concerned, 2ohm stereo is the same as 4ohm bridged.

Definitely do not cut more holes in the box and drop in more subs, you'll throw the sound way off.

And about 2 types of boxes (1 sealed, 1 ported), I know it seems like you might get the best of both worlds, but you actually get the worst of both worlds. The benefit of sealed boxes is the flat response, the benefit of ported boxes is the increase in efficiency. In order to hear both at the same level, you'll have to decrease the power going to the ported subs so the sealed subs can catch up, this effectively nullifies the increase in efficiency you get with the ported subs. In addition, since they're playing at the same spl, the jacked up frequency response of the ported subs nullifies the flat response of the sealed subs. So in effect, you have the low efficiency of the sealed subs, and the bad frequency response of the ported subs, without the benefits of either.

The sony xplode subs are going back to wal-mart. I just ordered some 2007 Kicker CVR 12's. Im not sending them back because they sounded bad. They wasnt all that bad (i guess). I had a person ask me what my system was, and i was to embarassed to open my trunk and show it to them.

SO lets hear opinions. Is this a step up? down? same? what.

Also. I want to wire them up 2 ohm. Is it okay to wire the two voice coils together on those?

Will they sound okay in a large ported box? Its a slot ported box with a single large vertical port in the center of the box between the woofers. The box is about 1.75 cubic feet per side. Will this do? Im not sure what its tuned too. Seems like the guy i bought it from said something about 30 hz.

you can't just shove any ol subs into a ported box, the bo must be designed for the speakers you are using.

yea at least you are thinking big because kicker needs a big box. but the 30 hz is going to kill you because that is around sql range and kicker by no means is sql.

and as pauld has said the box needs to be built for the subs.

What do i need to do to the box to get it ready for the subs? I just bought the box new but if i need to take a saw to it and make it right or get some filters or whatever, im game.

dblpost...sry.

According the the info i have on the kicker subs are best in a 1.75-2.20 (ported) box. I called the guy i bought the box from and he couldnt verify the exact tune of the box. Its a prefab, what are the chances its ported correct for the equipment i have?

If it's a prefab it's probably tuned closer to 40-45hz

If it's a prefab it's probably tuned closer to 40-45hz

actully if it is the box i am thinking of it is tuned to 34 hz

Not bad for a prefab, I haven't seen very many tuned below 38-40


Most are just built to be a fart machine with no consideration for SQ

heres what the boxs measures out. Sorry about teh bad pic i made of it.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/hotrod_chevyz/misc%20pics/box.jpg

The man i bought it from doesnt seem to know much about it, even though he sells them. I havent calculated it but im pretty sure hes off on the 1.75 cubic feet. The way he made it sound hes sold one to everybody in town. He probably saw me coming a mile away.. Im open to suggestions on how i can improve the box for the subs i bought, before they get here. Right now the sonys are back at wal-mart where they belong. The man at walmart acted like hes sold a ton of those sony subs with no complaints. Anyways the box is unbolted from my car and is now sitting in the middle of my living room floor. What should i do to it to make it better guys?

EDIT: i took those measurements from the inside of the box using inches.

does it look like this http://www.qlogic.ws/products/q_enclosures_detail.jsp?groupID=4518&productID=14255&categoryID=228&classID=55

does it look like this http://www.qlogic.ws/products/q_enclosures_detail.jsp?groupID=4518&productID=14255&categoryID=228&classID=55

Sort of. Mines not as nice looking and is a true rectangle. But thats how the port is. Im just guessing but i think mine is closer to 1.5 per side.

EDIT: heres closer to what it looks like except on mine both woofers share a port in the middle of the box. http://www.a1bigaudio.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1094 Mines a little bigger but since its ported im still guessing the cubic feet to be around 1.5 per side excluding the slot down the middle. Its a cheap box. I dont even know the name of the company that made it. Will this be okay for those subs? Man i hope so cause i cant take it back now that ive put holes in it.

another edit: I can still hack it up into what i need i suppose. I would use one of those calculators i found online, but im too stupid to figure out how they work...:icon16:

looks like about 1.6 cubes per sub, 3.2 net. tuned to roughly 35 hz.

Heck it might sound okay. I wish my new subs would get here. The waiting is the hardest part. Thanks for answering my questions guys. Its obvious some of you know your shit when it comes to systems. More than myself anyways. I just want it to be loud and sound decent at the same time, you know how that goes. Best of luck to you all and once i get it all installed i will snap a pic of it and post it up so you guys can pick on it :iceslolan .

Peace, T.