Intermittent start and kill problems

Sorry this is so long, but I had to be very descriptive so you'd know what I'd already tried and the possible screw up I've made.

This I suppose kinda may be a spin off of my "idler pulley" thread. I may have done myself in, but I'll post and see what I get from you guys/gals.

Ok, a couple months ago I crimped new ends on my positive battery cables, cleaned off a lot of white corrosion of pos and neg terminals and cable ends, put a new positive cable end with a wing nut top on there and I left the old neg cable end on cause it seems ok. I have since recrimped and retightened the whole pos cable end setup. The cable end is very snug on the battery post; on both actually. I've sealed the wire to the new cable ends with liquid rubber and put all the electrical corrosive protectant on all over the exposed metal parts. I'm skeptical about the metal ends that go over the pos cables and whether or not they are flush enough with the cable itself. These are the ends that have the loop at the end and you just crimp the metal around the cable (copper). While I'm skeptical about the positive cable end setup I installed I can jiggle it and the neg cables and while the van is running or just while the van is off and the lights are on it does absolutely nothing; ie: Van either stays running and/or if not running the lights (under hood and interior) remain on.

Ok, all of that seemed fine and I don't believe I had tried to start the van before I began this next work removing and installing the idler pulley. Not realizing what I did during the installation I removed the bolt that holds the ground strap from the alternator to the van body. Fast forward we've got the idler pulley and belt back on, van is off the jack, wheel back on, and forgot to tighten up the ground strap bolt again. Well apparently we tightened the alternator bolt for this ground strap while the tensioner was pulling on the belt, thus pulling on the alternator and it made tightening the bolt very hard to do and we think we may have stripped it. At some point it didn't seem like it was going in anymore and of course we didn't want to jack the van back up and reloosen the belt because that was an insane ordeal and I managed to pull apart a lock washer enough to squeeze it around under the head of the bolt and tap it in with a screwdriver. Then I tightened the bolt some more and it actually tightened. Before doing this the van would start and not start intermittently because (guessing) the ground cable was loose. Thinking now that I've got the bolt, ground cable, lock washer, then the van mount bar thingy all tight I'm thinking my ground is back to normal. Well, I cannot predict when, but the van just sometimes will not start for the life of me. Since this problem arose after doing this work I can't help but think its either the ground strap or the positive cable work I did. BUT BUT BUT the van started starting reliably after I did the 'ground strap' patch work at the alternator.

ENTER THE NORTH WINDS and COLD. I moved from Louisiana to Illinois and I've was worried on the way up due to how the van drags when it starts after sitting for a while, especially in the colder air. Since I've been to Illinois it snowed the first day and has been below 32 for over a week straight. I didn't start the van for 1 day and it died on me. It just wouldn't do a single thing when you turned the key. Here's whats odd. Sometimes the interior lights come on and sometimes they don't. When they do I turn the key and nothing happens still. I've hooked the cables to another car and tried numerous times to start it up with nothing happening at all. No sound, no nothing. The battery IS a BIT OLD (2001 Sears Die Hard), but my multimeter did say it was putting out over 12+ volts and I used a battery acid tester (like the radiator fluid testers) and tested each cell's water and only 1 of them was at 50% charge while the others were 75% or higher. So immediately I'm thinking why won't the van start????

I start thinking back to the "ground strap" issue and how it wasn't starting for a while so I started messing with the ground strap again. Using two sets of jumper cables I ground from the alternator to the van body and the other set is grounded to the van engine block and positive battery terminal back to the other running car. Van STARTS after being stalled for a couple days in the freezing cold. I SHOULD ALSO NOTE I BANGED A FEW TIMES ON THE STARTER BEFORE IT STARTED WITH A HEAVY SCREWDRIVER HANDLE thinking it may be frozen. I don't know what is going on, but the van ran for a while and after I disconnected the other running car, but LEFT the other jumper cables grounding from the alternator to the van body all of a sudden out of no where the van just KILLED on its own running idle in PARK in the driveway. Immediately after the KILL I open the door and notice none of the interior lights are on. Son of a BITCH ! Its like I have an intermittment electrical flow that just turns ON and OFF at will. I even disconnected the jumpers from the alt to the van body while the van was running and it didn't stall. I'm wondering if my entire problem is the ground strap from the alt to the van body and maybe its just barely enough "sometimes" to keep the van running or starting and "sometimes" not so.

What do ya'll think? Is it likely related to the work I've done on it? Could it be the CCRM or some other electrical part that may be getting hit with the North Cold elements?

My main concern is that the van will just DIE on me in the middle of traffic like on a turn or something or worse on the interstate. I doubt it would die in a NON-IDLE condition because thats when spark and current are at its highest (thinking it is an electrical current flow issue), but still its a very risky thing to chance.

It sounds to me like you have a bad battery and or alternator. Your battery should have the same specific gravity in each cell on the battery. Your voltage should be no less than 12.7 volts. If the van was running as you say it was using power from the vehicle jump starting it. When you disconnected the jumper cables it should have stayed running if the alternator was okay. My suggestion is to try and jump it again. Rev the engine on the windstar once started to about 2000 rpm. Hold it there while someone disconnects the jumper cables. If the van dies the alternator is not putting out voltage. If you can get it running I would drive it to a Sears Auto Center and have them check the battery and alternator. They will tell you exactley whats wrong. I believe it will cost you $9.95 or there abouts. Well worth the piece of mind. If you cant get the van running buy a battery and replace it yourself. If you put the battery in and it starts drive it to Sears and have them check it out they may be able to fix your cable ends or tell you if there done correctley. Make sure if you do get it running with a charged battery or with a new one that you drive there right away and use as litlle accesories as possible. If the battery is not charging it will drain the new or freshley charged battery.

Another thought. Is the serpentine belt tight enough? The fact your one bolt for the alternator is stripped or missing it could cause the alternator to turn sideways abit. Probabley not enough to cause a problem but it could cause it to throw a belt.

It sounds to me like you have a bad battery and or alternator. Your battery should have the same specific gravity in each cell on the battery. Your voltage should be no less than 12.7 volts. If the van was running as you say it was using power from the vehicle jump starting it. When you disconnected the jumper cables it should have stayed running if the alternator was okay. My suggestion is to try and jump it again. Rev the engine on the windstar once started to about 2000 rpm. Hold it there while someone disconnects the jumper cables. If the van dies the alternator is not putting out voltage. If you can get it running I would drive it to a Sears Auto Center and have them check the battery and alternator. They will tell you exactley whats wrong. I believe it will cost you $9.95 or there abouts. Well worth the piece of mind. If you cant get the van running buy a battery and replace it yourself. If you put the battery in and it starts drive it to Sears and have them check it out they may be able to fix your cable ends or tell you if there done correctley. Make sure if you do get it running with a charged battery or with a new one that you drive there right away and use as litlle accesories as possible. If the battery is not charging it will drain the new or freshley charged battery.

BTW - This is a 1995 Ford Windstar 3.8L

Clarifying a bit - When I removed the jumpers from the running vehicle the van remained running for a while and then eventually just gave out and killed on its own. About specific gravity, the 1 that was different was the 1st cell I tested and I noticed inside it looked like something was floating and now that I think of it, it may have been one of those flat thingies that you see down in there. I guess if thats physical internal damage to the cell that would constitute a bad battery huh?

Successive jumping - Thats the thing man.... I tried to jump it SEVERAL TIMES and the only time it started up was after I'd grounded (with another jumper set) the alt to the van body thinking that the ground strap wasn't that well set in its seat on both ends. On this successful start I had also banged the starter a few times with the screwdriver handle beforehand. I don't know if that banging had any effect or not or if it was the jumper to alt/van. So I can rev the engine and have it sit idle and still run, but out of the blue unpredictably so it will just die sometimes. I can restart it now at will without aid of another car with attached jumpers, but I can never know when its just not going to start.

Belt tightness - Its an auto belt tensioner and its never been replaced although it seems to be doing just fine as I sure as all hell cannot pull any slack in it myself and while exerting some serious force too.

Alternator bolt - The bolt that the ground jumper strap is attached to on the alt wouldn't affect belt alignment or belt pitch. The alt is straight (i'm sure) and if it wasn't I would've never let it alone like that. This bolt is 99% in and holding tight and is primarily for grounding the alt to the van body through the ground strap as well as acting as the upper alternator mount bolt and I know what you are thinking, but the bolt is 99% in and flush with the lock washer, ground strap end, and bolt head and very tight. I did notice some corrosive build up though at the lock washer, which in turn is a space I've opened up by using the lock washer to begin with.

New battery - I have one standing by I bought today, but I just wasn't convinced it was a bad battery till now that I'm thinking about that floating material in the 1st battery cell I tested.

Thanks so much for the speedy reply.

Thoughts?

Any time there is corrosion on the battery terminals, you have SOMETHING somewhere, not connecting "right." A good system, will all connections in tact, should not corrode like that. Removing the corrosion, and then driving away is only a duct-tape fix. I had a similar problem on my '92 Explorer. The number one problem was a loose connection at the battery terminals- followed by the firewall mounted solenoid (for starting issues, not continuously running issues.)

I do not see the CCRM keeping the starter from working....
A bad Neutral Safety switch, aka Transmission Range Sensor (TRS)....all 1 and the same part, can prevent the starter from working....BUT would not cause you to have no interior lights.

If there are no interior lights......I would go back to a major connection issue.
I don't think this would happen so fast.....but you do have to be careful in your selection of "rubber" that you put over electrical connections.
I know that when using "RTV" with any electrical connection, you MUST use the stuff that says electrical...or electronic on the label.
The other stuff WILL cause corrosion......I have seen this on electronics.

You might even look into getting new battery cables.....might be able to locate them on ebay for cheap.....as some auto salvage yards post stuff on ebay.
Problem is, they go through a LOT of variation in heat....from super hot, to....bone chilling, winter, cold.
That is a fair amount of expansion and contraction....that can lead to connection issues.
So a good crimp that lasts is a challenge.
Add to that.....the salt that you are now getting to know.

The ground strap is an issue of concern.....
I have a '96......which is somewhat different from the '95......but on my '96, the alternator and alternator bracket are aluminum....which is not the best for holding a good electrical connection.....as it quickly gets surface corrosion (that dull look). You will want to have super good continuity to the iron engine block......wonder if there is a bolt....maybe on the starter that would work as an additional connection for ground?

Just some ideas to think about.

Another note......as you mention the CCRM......which, again is NOT relative to the engine cranking over......but this is relative to it running.
FORD came out with an improved CCRM unit, with better sealed relays.
The TSB that I read stated that the problem is during below freezing temperature.......after the engine has been run a while (they called it a hot soak) and then shut down for about 15 minutes........then it will not start.....or stay running.
This is due to the fuel pump not running because of moisture in the fuel pump relay.....which on our older windstars.....is inside the CCRM.
Solution is to replace the CCRM with a new, improved one from FORD.

I have NOT read posts on here of people for sure having this problem, but read the TSB....so I thought I would pass the information along.

Thanks you guys. Great stuff.
I think I am going to take it step by step.
1. Yeah, that dull look on the alternator... you are right its aluminum. I just had a feeling that metal wasn't the best for grounding. Since I screwed up the screw on the alt I am going to take it apart again (releasing belt tension) and install a "new" 6 gauge battery grounding cable I got at Wal-mart auto. See if it starts 10 consecutive times and run it around the block thereafter then not sure if I'll do #2 or not.

2. Redo the positive cable ends on the positive battery cables and maybe replace the terminal lead with another one (brass one) and hook the two positive battery cables to it. The new brass terminal lead seems to have two screws for holding down 1 singular cable in the middle of it, but I'd use it to screw the two cables betwen the bolts and the terminal lead metal since I have the loop ends on the battery cables which I will yet again recrimp and reseal with liquid rubber fit for working with electrical stuff.
See if it starts 10 consecutive times and run it around the block thereafter.

3. Grounding some more - I may later get another ground cable once I can figure out the best routing and places to mount it and set it up in there. I've learned a lot about grounding from having installed a ground wire kit on my sports car.

4. CCRM - I want to replace this immediately, however its going to be a FUNDS issue here and wait till the van kills after doing at least 1 and/or 2 above.

5. Corrosion - clean it all off EVERYWHERE I see it.

Thanks a lot for that TSB information

MY GAWD !! Would you guys believe that since I wrote the post before this one that I still haven't fixed the van because I'm restricted to an outside workspace and its been below freezing every day/night since I arrived in this ye ole land of the North. Last night it was down to -2 and while I'm sure others are experiencing even colder climates right now I just can't believe how awful this is. I don't know how anyone gets any business done here in the North during winter (I've lived in the DEEP South my whole life up until these past few weeks) and its almost to me like people shouldn't even live in this kind of environment. I can't imagine living in Alaska or Canada. Anyone have any TIPS for working in these kinds of cold temperatures other than LAYERS? LOL - I just can't believe how cold it is here.

Update on the van though: I cleared off some corrosion that was between the ground strap end mount between it and the alternator mount point and I really think this is what got the van started. So keeping the corrosion off that point till I get to work on it is key. That corrosion remover and corrosion prevent spray stuff is a good thing to have on hand.

Well.....we did not make it up to -2 on Sunday......
How we survive in the cold....is we try to prevent having to work on our vehicles in the cold.....
Having just moved.....this advice does not do you much good this winter....but may help next winter.
In the fall, one needs to give the vehicle a serious going over and evaluation.
If the battery is 5 years old......it is on borrowed time for doing the job in sub-zero weather.
Many people get more life out of their battery.....and many get less life out of them.
Check all battery and starter connections.
These items are most likely to fail in super cold weather......just look at how busy a battery shop is when it gets super cold.

Check the coolant to make sure that it is at least a 50/50 mix (not over 70% coolant though).
Synthetic fluids are a plus....especially if your vehicle is not kept in a garage.
FORD issued a TSB that says 5W-20 oil is now recommended for our older windstars that state 5W-30 in the owner's manual.....this means all windstars can use 5W-20 oil.
Synthetic power steering fluid and transmission fluid are also a plus.
These 3 fluids being synthetic will help the vehicle turn over and start easier.

Making sure that all tune-up items are current.....spark plug wires, spark plugs, serpentine belt, air and fuel filter, and clean fuel injectors.....

Because....you are right.....no one wants to be fixing on their vehicle at sub-zero temperatures......unless they have a heated garage......and you may find that repair shops have a waiting list.

Thank you wiswind - while that bit of info may seem trivial to veteran Northerners it is a big help for someone NEW to the North. I've never had to plan for vehicle maintenance based on what time of year the weather changes. Compared to the HIGH NORTH cominig from the DEEP SOUTH our winters are usually mild and our summers are mild to severe, but still in the summer its possible to work in the garage with a sweat rag and some fans. What I will benefit from the most is knowing that the connections are what I should watch in severe cold temps. I bought some corrosion removal spray and protectant spray today so as soon as I can go work on everything I'll use those.

Thanks for the tip on the oil weight. I need to get that done soon and it makes sense to use a heavier weight with these engines.

Coolant thingy says I'm good for -10 degrees. I assume that means actual temp and not windchill. I wonder what mixture that means I'm at?

So I still have that new battery, given what you've said you think I should change it out? I have a battery monitor in my van (cig socket) and it always is between Med and High charge when running.

Also from Illinois I can tell you a 5 or six year old battery in this weather could leave you stranded. I make a point of warming up my vehicles before I take off in them in this weather. The oil, transmission fluid and others become very thick and make the engine more difficult to start. If you just start the engine and drive away the oil has not had a chance to flow through the engine and premature engine failure can result. It is not as important in the above freezing temperatures but in the sub zero it is. Long story short if you have the new battery change it.

Also from Illinois I can tell you a 5 or six year old battery in this weather could leave you stranded. I make a point of warming up my vehicles before I take off in them in this weather. The oil, transmission fluid and others become very thick and make the engine more difficult to start. If you just start the engine and drive away the oil has not had a chance to flow through the engine and premature engine failure can result. It is not as important in the above freezing temperatures but in the sub zero it is. Long story short if you have the new battery change it.

Alright, I'll change it. Damn. :) Just was looking forward to getting my $65 back, but I feel ya'll are right as I'm pushing it with this old battery. Wish there was a Sears Auto around here, cause I'd really like to take the wal-mart everlast one back and get another diehard like what is in there now since it lasted so long.