Eclipse GSX vs Evo

I have seen of late there are alot of 600-700hp evos running around with a few of them getting over 750hp!!! Dosent the evo have the same 4g63 that the GSX has had for years (minus the larger turbo)???? Why havent I seen many GSXs using that kind of power? Does the GSX have a weaker driveline? Is there somthing that I am missing? Why is the Evo such a phnaomnon while the GSX is looked down on as an infirior machine (in some circles I am not talking about amoung its owners) Could somone build a low 10 second car out of a GSX just as easly as they could an Evo??? Any imput would be helpfull what are your thoughts??? Oh and one more thing is there somthing inharent in the Evos suspension/chasies that makes it corner better than the GSX or is it just the "no compromise" race settings they used.

you have to realize that gsx's are getting old. evo's are the new thing. also take into effect the technology increase in the last 6 years that the gsx's have not been made. as well as the fact that you need a 6-bolt engine to make that kind of power at any kind of a resonably safe [650 hp reasonably safe??? lolol] thought. now think that the guy's that know anything about racecars these days know that the 4g63 is a badass engine because they grew up around big turbo'd gst/x's, and that same guy can go to a dealer and throw down the cash and drive off in an evo...

time is killing dsm's...

hi everyone! sorry i can't make it in more often!

Evo are factory built rally cars, they are superior to the GSX except with a much higher price tag. Although people have been making 700+hp GSX and GST for years, far more than the number of evos that are out. The evo has had many years of engineering thrown at it and handles greater because of all the extra work that went in to making it. The basic platform of the 4g63 remains the same but there are many differences between the GSX 4g63 and the EVO 4g63, such as the cam durations, valves, CFM flow of the head, and many more minor but impactual changes. I definetally dont believe evo owners look down on there sister car the gsx, considering that more than half of EVO owners once or still own a DSM.

Evo are factory built rally cars, they are superior to the GSX except with a much higher price tag. Although people have been making 700+hp GSX and GST for years, far more than the number of evos that are out. The evo has had many years of engineering thrown at it and handles greater because of all the extra work that went in to making it. The basic platform of the 4g63 remains the same but there are many differences between the GSX 4g63 and the EVO 4g63, such as the cam durations, valves, CFM flow of the head, and many more minor but impactual changes. I definetally dont believe evo owners look down on there sister car the gsx, considering that more than half of EVO owners once or still own a DSM.
Oh I never said the Evo owners looked down on them i am talking about the tuner market in genral. Givin the same modifacations how much more powerful would a evos 4g63 be than the GSXs

Not too many people own 600+hp cars. Most people who have the money to buy an Evo have the funds to build a serious car. And most people who have the money for the mods, would choose the Evo. It kind of goes both ways. I wouldn't say it's "easy" to make a ten second car out of anything, though.

The suspension geometry is superior on the Evo. It can't really be recreated. Even a stock Evo would badly abuse a mildly upgraded DSM on the track.

Not too many people own 600+hp cars. Most people who have the money to buy an Evo have the funds to build a serious car. And most people who have the money for the mods, would choose the Evo. It kind of goes both ways. I wouldn't say it's "easy" to make a ten second car out of anything, though.

The suspension geometry is superior on the Evo. It can't really be recreated. Even a stock Evo would badly abuse a mildly upgraded DSM on the track.

I would say so .97g on the skidpad that is corvette and viper numbers. 60-0 in 106ft that is better than the 360 modena. In fact that is the best breaking that I have ever seen on a production car.

I would say so .97g on the skidpad that is corvette and viper numbers. 60-0 in 106ft that is better than the 360 modena. In fact that is the best breaking that I have ever seen on a production car.


Yes pretty close to corvette #s, skidpad on the z06 vette is 1.02g

IMO i still like the looks of the 2gs better than the evo.
But you cannot take anything from the evo, its a badass mofo.

That new zo6 vette is one badass machine also.

Doesn't the Evo have a completely different head than our DSM's, or is it just the internals of it?

Doesn't the Evo have a completely different head than our DSM's, or is it just the internals of it?


Yes its a totally different head

Can you buy an aftermarket heads as good or better than the evos or is trying to get that kind of power out of the older engines out of the question?

are 1g and 2g motors can handle all that also, 95-99 people are taking 1g heads and porting them, along with putting different cams in them.

this will shut you up...http://shepracing.com/
jp

just out of my head, but do you guys know if the EVO 8's 4g63 motor is either a 6 or 7 bolt motor?

okay, all i hear is that alot of the 7 bolt dsmers are going 6 because they obviously want a more "solid" motor. And yes, there are a couple GSXs in the country running 10s, its just that we dont hear about it. I'm from minnesota and i know there's a 10 sec dsm here. I think most of the time if he cruises DSM sites, his screen name is Ecoli. I dunno if he's also here in AF.com

They have a 7bolt motor, although the c-walk issue has apparently been fixed

I have owned both cars obviously. What I find though is that a ton of new ricer 16 year olds are buying EVOs with daddy's money and don't know the history on the DSM thing like we do, so I used to get attitudes in the GSX all the time. Of course with the amount of power I had in the 2g I could take care of that attitude easily enough. Now being on the other side of the fence, I can say that the EVO is a far superior car in a lot of little ways. But in straight drag racing/power production terms, the DSMs will still get you to the same point with much less money invested overall. I have 30 grand in the EVO just for the stock car. The 2g, which was worth about 6k or so, and the 12k or so I had in it in mods, would rape a stock EVO in a straight line, for about half the price. It all depends on how much money you have to spend. Most poeple will do just as well with the DSMs. I like the chassis rigidity of the EVO, its brakes, interior build quality, superior seating position, etc. Some of these things can be built into the DSMs, while others can't. You could go back and forth for hours about it, and believe me I have. The 2g was a good time, and it was paid off ;) But the EVO has it's advantages too. Like running 12.1 at 113 with just a filter, exhaust, and cams.

Another thing with the EVOs is that people with money are buying them for the most part, not poor starving college students. It's nothing to see someone with 10k on the odometer yank the motor and stroke it and toss on a GT35R, just because they can. ;)

I see alot of dragster GSXs but does anybody know of a good track/cornering GSX? I love the lightweight and looks of the car but I love corners, I figure since it has a solid platform and an independent suspansion it should have good cornering potential, maby not as good as the rx-7 or the Evo but what kind of numbers can I get with a low camber street setting with some wide sticky tires and a few suspension upgrades?

I see alot of dragster GSXs but does anybody know of a good track/cornering GSX? I love the lightweight and looks of the car but I love corners, I figure since it has a solid platform and an independent suspansion it should have good cornering potential, maby not as good as the rx-7 or the Evo but what kind of numbers can I get with a low camber street setting with some wide sticky tires and a few suspension upgrades?

:dunno:

It all really depends upon the track and the driver. For circuit racing, if thats what your talking about... Right?

Isn't the EVO engine considerably different then the older 4g63 engines? It's opposite for one thing. All the internals are different. The head is different. Out of curiousity, does anyone know why they turned the motor 180? Is there some benefit to having it this way? And the EVO will never look as good as the 97-99 eclipse.

:dunno:

It all really depends upon the track and the driver. For circuit racing, if thats what your talking about... Right?

Kinna I am just worried about cornering grip and its reflexes, but who knows I would love to try it in circuit racing.

well to my understanding of the evo its built for turns. The gsx as far as i can tell wouldn't have a chance against the evo in the handeling department. but as far as power goes it should be very similar. But don't quote me on that.

Here is an excellent video to show you what the Evo is capable of handling wise... Lambo can't keep up with it! :iceslolan

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5639412376935133899&q=evo+top+gear

Here is an excellent video to show you what the Evo is capable of handling wise... Lambo can't keep up with it! :iceslolan

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5639412376935133899&q=evo+top+gear


Strange how they have several different hp stylings for the evo, I think there was four different ones. And here in the states. You just have one.

Strange how they have several different hp stylings for the evo, I think there was four different ones. And here in the states. You just have one.

Yeah I know. But if anyone looked, the 2006 line up for the Evos have 3 different turbo models. So I think its just that whole thing about Europe having everything before we get it.

***EDIT***

Here's a link to the 2006 Evo line up in case anyone wanted to see it. :lol2:

http://www.mitsubishicars.com/MMSA/jsp/lancerevolution/features_specs.jsp?t=all

Yeah I know. But if anyone looked, the 2006 line up for the Evos have 3 different turbo models. So I think its just that whole thing about Europe having everything before we get it.

***EDIT***

Here's a link to the 2006 Evo line up in case anyone wanted to see it. :lol2:

http://www.mitsubishicars.com/MMSA/jsp/lancerevolution/features_specs.jsp?t=all



Three different turbo models with the same hp ratings and almost everyting exactly the same except stupid trim models. and with the MR you get a six speed.


Shit that stock MR from the video had 400hp. So again WTF?

Why can't we get some shit like that here?

Three different turbo models with the same hp ratings and almost everyting exactly the same except stupid trim models. and with the MR you get a six speed.


Shit that stock MR from the video had 400hp. So again WTF?

Why can't we get some shit like that here?

Yeah, I noticed they were all rated at about the same too so I donno. Maybe Europe doesn't put restrictions on the power their motors produce from the factory like we do here in the US.

Yeah, I noticed they were all rated at about the same too so I donno. Maybe Europe doesn't put restrictions on the power their motors produce from the factory like we do here in the US.


What restrictions are you talking about?

What restrictions are you talking about?

There are certain restrictions that car producers have to put on cars in the US. The government enforces this. Certain restrictions cause them to put things the way they do so that it limits the cars power. Look at how they restrict every engine with a airbox and a tiny exhaust. We all know this cuts down on the performance of the vehicle and the government wants it just like that... I guess they just don't want supercars running around on the streets everywhere. You've heard of this before haven't you?

There are certain restrictions that car producers have to put on cars in the US. The government enforces this. Certain restrictions cause them to put things the way they do so that it limits the cars power. Look at how they restrict every engine with a airbox and a tiny exhaust. We all know this cuts down on the performance of the vehicle and the government wants it just like that... I guess they just don't want supercars running around on the streets everywhere. You've heard of this before haven't you?


I don't think that is right. I mean the only resctrictions other than safety ratings is emissions. Mostly the reason that cars have small resctrictive exhaust because they have to for emission control laws.

But I don't think there is any limit on power. I mean look at a 2006 Corvette zo6 It's got 505hp stock from the factory. Or my cobra which has 390hp stock. I think it's just a matter of ergronomics. I think most japanese car manufacturers know that when americans think of japanese cars they think of reliability and fuel economy. That is why japanese car manufacturers can make semi-sport performance cars (hence evo) and still sell them as a fuel friendly sedan. And thats why they don't make 400hp beasts in the states because of poor fuel economy they would afford. I mean if people wanted a gas guzzler they would just buy a domestic wouldn't they?

I don't think that is right. I mean the only resctrictions other than safety ratings is emissions. Mostly the reason that cars have small resctrictive exhaust because they have to for emission control laws.

But I don't think there is any limit on power. I mean look at a 2006 Corvette zo6 It's got 505hp stock from the factory. Or my cobra which has 390hp stock. I think it's just a matter of ergronomics. I think most japanese car manufacturers know that when americans think of japanese cars they think of reliability and fuel economy. That is why japanese car manufacturers can make semi-sport performance cars (hence evo) and still sell them as a fuel friendly sedan. And thats why they don't make 400hp beasts in the states because of poor fuel economy they would afford. I mean if people wanted a gas guzzler they would just buy a domestic wouldn't they?

True. Although I'm pretty sure I read it that they only allow car producers to sell their cars with a percentage of their possible power... If you think about it, its a very good idea to limit the power of a vehicle from the factory. There are too many idiots out there that would kill people by driving cars with their full potential of power wrecklessly. But of course they make it somewhat simple to upgrade certain components of your engine to release the possible power. At least this is how I took it as when I read it... I've been searching online trying to find the article again that I read this summer... But yeah, I do agree with you about them producing them to be more fuel friendly and reliable.

True. Although I'm pretty sure I read it that they only allow car producers to sell their cars with a percentage of their possible power... If you think about it, its a very good idea to limit the power of a vehicle from the factory. There are too many idiots out there that would kill people by driving cars with their full potential of power wrecklessly. But of course they make it somewhat simple to upgrade certain components of your engine to release the possible power. At least this is how I took it as when I read it... I've been searching online trying to find the article again that I read this summer... But yeah, I do agree with you about them producing them to be more fuel friendly and reliable.


Well I know there are alot of idiots that would kill people by driving fast factory cars. But fast factory cars cost money. So I think that is another reason why factory cars aren't as fast as they could be. I think honestly for 30k I couldn't have found a better or faster factory car for my buck other than the cobra. But In general more hp means more dollars and that goes way above normal car cost. Also I think with higher power ratings comes more and more safety requirements so all these things might play a factor in this. Also the fact that japanese cars are almost all limited to four cylinder and v6 cars. While you can make power from anything the easiest way to make more power is to increase displacement and add a few cyclinders.

Well I know there are alot of idiots that would kill people by driving fast factory cars. But fast factory cars cost money. So I think that is another reason why factory cars aren't as fast as they could be. I think honestly for 30k I couldn't have found a better or faster factory car for my buck other than the cobra. But In general more hp means more dollars and that goes way above normal car cost. Also I think with higher power ratings comes more and more safety requirements so all these things might play a factor in this. Also the fact that japanese cars are almost all limited to four cylinder and v6 cars. While you can make power from anything the easiest way to make more power is to increase displacement and add a few cyclinders.

Yeah, a few extra cylinders is the quickest way to add power. But don't forget about that video and how much the Evo stomped on the Lambo in it. hehe :evillol:

Yeah, a few extra cylinders is the quickest way to add power. But don't forget about that video and how much the Evo stomped on the Lambo in it. hehe :evillol:


Haha. But that was handling not power ;)

Haha. But that was handling not power ;)

They just want us all to think that so the Lambo's don't look so bad. lol :wink: :rolleyes: :biggrin:

They just want us all to think that so the Lambo's don't look so bad. lol :wink: :rolleyes: :biggrin:



Haha until they try to flat out race and it makes the evo look like a geo metro.

Haha until they try to flat out race and it makes the evo look like a geo metro.

LOL My aunt drives a Geo Metro. Aren't they like a 3 cylinder or something? I wonder if I could fit a 4g63 in one of those... lol :rolleyes:

LOL My aunt drives a Geo Metro. Aren't they like a 3 cylinder or something? I wonder if I could fit a 4g63 in one of those... lol :rolleyes:

People have put like LS1 engines in those.


That's almost as bad in the fact that you can take a built 351w from a mustang and put it into a two door mazda truck with vary little fabrication at all lol.

People have put like LS1 engines in those.

Holy shit! I wasn't expecting that. lol

Man, I should drop one of our engines into a Metro... I would have so much fun around here with all the ricers that think their cars are so fast... How embarassing would it be to get burned by a damn Metro? lol

Holy shit! I wasn't expecting that. lol

Man, I should drop one of our engines into a Metro... I would have so much fun around here with all the ricers that think their cars are so fast... How embarassing would it be to get burned by a damn Metro? lol


Haha I've seen it before. They have to move the entire firewall back so where you sit is actually in the back seat instead of the front because the engine and dash is where the front seats used to be.
haha

Could you imagine getting burned by a shitty as like 92 mazda truck? lol

Haha I've seen it before. They have to move the entire firewall back so where you sit is actually in the back seat instead of the front because the engine and dash is where the front seats used to be.
haha

Could you imagine getting burned by a shitty as like 92 mazda truck? lol

Look what I found! This is how it'll be after I put a 4g63 in a Metro!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

http://media.putfile.com/9secgeo

Look what I found! This is how it'll be after I put a 4g63 in a Metro!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

http://media.putfile.com/9secgeo


haha they converted it to rear wheel drive too

just throwing this out there, but, if the evo uses the 4g63 which made the dsm's dsms, wouldnt that make the evo part dsm?

just throwing this out there, but, if the evo uses the 4g63 which made the dsm's dsms, wouldnt that make the evo part dsm?

I do believe that they throw the Evo into the DSM category too.

A bit late, but a couple points.

EVO's are considered DSMs loosely just because the tuning process is exactly the same. For example, I'm running a 95 ECU in mine. A few differences to get around, but the same though process applies to thee cars.

We get the lower HP models mainly because of the US emission and safety laws. Years ago there were rumors of mitsu sending the EVO over, the main problem was keping the FMIC and STILL passing the (useless) 5 mph crash test tat you guessed it, only the US has. Other countries can get away with more aggresive tuning from the factory due to less strict emissions laws and the ability to run a more appropriate FMIC. But what the fuck, we should just be glad they finally got them here after missing out on EVO 1-7s ;)

DSMs can be made to corner very well. The 2Gs font suspension is considered to be superior to the 1g and EVO "strut style" suspension, but in reality the 1g and EVOs can obviously be made to handle very well. Sock for stock the EVO obviously takes the lead over the other two. But I've seen some mean road race 1G/2Gs. Just takes some money.